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  1. #261
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Wow, this whining and qq from the entitled casual playerbase is amazing. They wan be just lik teh hardkor rayiders! They wan all purpl epix nao in their hands! It is this entitlement that has ruined this game. Hey guess what casual players, maybe this game isnt for you with the amount of whining you do on such little things.
    Casuals at 99% of the player base. The game is for them and blizzard knows it. They wouldn't have had to have LFR to begin with if it wasn't the case.
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  2. #262
    My sub will run out before I can kill Garrosh =(

    Well actually i think that Wednesday it does, so I gotta hustle when it's out.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Exactly, it is about the desire to schedule to raid. I was arguing against the guy who said that most people didn´t raid because they were ´bad´. Agree with you exactly, it is just making a commitment to say that raiding on those nights is a priority.

    I am going to be raiding flex when 5.4 starts ( my first real raiding since vanilla). The biggest draw for me is the flex part of it. if I am miss a week, it is not a huge issue, nor will there be guild drama, nor will I lose my spot the next week etc etc. That has always been my issue with raiding since vanilla. If you have 10 or 25 man teams, then two things are going to happen. You are going to have to punish people who don´t show up, and at the same time, you are going to have to have ´extras´on standby who end up not being able to raid with you. Those two ´scheduling´ issue are what kept me out of raiding all these years. I don´t want ingame drama if something happens in my personal life, and now as a guild leader, I don´t want to have to punish people for not showing up, or to have to sit someone who does show up but doesn´t have a slot available.

    It should be fairly easy to keep a 15 man team going.. and if we grow to 20 and start pushing 25, easy to break into two groups without ever having to sit anyone or having any ackward moments with those hard and fast 10 man limits.
    Pretty sure you're completely disconnected from raiding with Flex. You aren't just going to be able to show up and raid you're still going to have to follow a schedule with the other people, nothing changes as far as missing weeks. The only nice thing is you can add and remove people but I'll tell you, if you don't have enough healers you will not just be able to run with whomever you want and you'll be stuck with having people sit outside.

    You say you haven't raided since vanilla, it sounds to me like you were left with a terrible experience and a bad raid leader/GM. People have lives, we have people miss but we have the roster to replace them but obviously those with higher attendance get priority but it doesn't mean you're booted from the guild. You can argue scheduling is the issue all you want but flex still comes with many of the issues that you are complaining about. Quit making excuses and trying to justify them.

  4. #264
    Bloodsail Admiral SinR's Avatar
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    Why do they keep doing this?


    Let's gate Normal and Heroic modes.

    week 1: Vale LFR/Flex/Normal open up
    week 2: Gates LFR/Flex/Normal open up
    week 3: Underhold LFR/Flex/Normal open up
    week 4: Downfall LFR/Flex/Normal open up
    week 5: Heroic Vale unlocks
    week 6: Heroic Gates
    week 7: Heroic Underhold
    week 8: Heroic Downfall

  5. #265
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    It seems as though some people lack the capacity to think, and jump to conclusions very quickly on these forums. Did you ever think about the fact that players have alt characters? Did you ever think about the fact that jaylock is just a forum name that I use? Did you ever think about the fact that I am no longer subbed to this game, and therefore it would not matter what content I have, or have not done. Also, do you see me crying about content not being available right away?

    No. I am not whining, and I am fair in my assessment that it is lame and pathetic that people are doing so, and it highlights the entitled nature of the casual playerbase.
    Oh no no you are not going to bullshit here I won't allow it that is EXACTLY from your old signature I've seen it MULTIPLE times that is YOU. I'm on neither side of casual or the HC argument but if you act like one of those people at least have some evidence to do so!

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by But I Hate You All View Post
    Nope got it from your old sig and there is no reason to be upset that I pointed out you seem pretty Causal your self but hey don't let me interrupt your whining about people whining

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    What Il is the Timeless isle stuff

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    Timeless island mobs all have a chance to drop 496 tokens. You can also earn, or get as rare drops, an item that upgrades those 496 items to 535.

    Since most LFR people from TOT probably have an ilvl of about 520 right now, that is a nice upgrade, and even higher than SoO LFR gear. There are no weapons, and I think only 1 trinket, and also no set bonuses.. but still it is a lot of good upgrades, especially if you are replacing a 502 item from LFR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by But I Hate You All View Post
    Meh as someone said earlier "oh i guess it looks like I will be only re-subbing on the 22th of October". Blizzard already said Gating was added to LFR because Raiders in raiding keep saying they are forced to do lfr.
    Quote where Blizzard said that.

    In fact, they said the exact opposite today ( read blue posts above). They said that LFR and Flex are gated to make them more comparable to how people raid normal. Except for world first guilds, most people take many weeks or months to get to the final boss.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The problem has reached an acute stage this time.

    First, LFR allows anyone to "see the content" quickly. If you want to, you'll be able to kill the end boss of the expansion on Oct 22, six weeks after the tier is released.

    Now, DS was like this, but in DS there was still an expectation that people would advance on to higher raid modes. But with MoP, we've had an entire expansion of people being ok with just doing LFR. Do they have any motivation to get back into the guild raiding scene? I sure don't. Heirlooms from Garrosh have zero motivating effect for me.

    Blizzard is just about betting the farm that lots of these people will want to advance to Flex. If they don't, the whole tail end of this expansion will collapse like a house of cards.

    And something else...

    I enter every expansion with a finite supply of give-a-damn. MoP, for some reason, has been burning it unusually rapidly. I have very little care left for what happens in the expansion. The ersatz reward scheme of pretty purple pixels with incrementally larger numbers has lost its allure. The idea of reaching my own personally defined endpoint and saying "done!" is looking more and more attractive.
    Let's not forget the fact that most the social and lower tier guilds flex is aimed at is now gone already. LFR raiders are going to have a real problem finding those guilds to allow them to try to progress into other modes if they even wanted to. Flex should of came out at the start of the expansion. Now it's just going to be too little, too late.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextar View Post
    Pretty sure you're completely disconnected from raiding with Flex. You aren't just going to be able to show up and raid you're still going to have to follow a schedule with the other people, nothing changes as far as missing weeks. The only nice thing is you can add and remove people but I'll tell you, if you don't have enough healers you will not just be able to run with whomever you want and you'll be stuck with having people sit outside.

    You say you haven't raided since vanilla, it sounds to me like you were left with a terrible experience and a bad raid leader/GM. People have lives, we have people miss but we have the roster to replace them but obviously those with higher attendance get priority but it doesn't mean you're booted from the guild. You can argue scheduling is the issue all you want but flex still comes with many of the issues that you are complaining about. Quit making excuses and trying to justify them.
    If you have a 25M or a 10M raid, then you have people on standby. You have to. So basically every week you are telling someone to be online at an exact time, and then telling them they aren´t coming. I know this is normal everyday stuff for raiders, but it sucks.

    Flex raiding requires 2 tanks and 2 healers until you get up to about 14 total, then you will need 3 healers. The power of the boss scales regressively, meaning the 10th dps is not expected to do as much dps as the 9th., the same is true of boss damage.

    Yeah, you are still going to want your tanks to show up every week, and 2 of your healers.. but after that, there isn´t much stress on people who miss.

  9. #269
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    Timeless island mobs all have a chance to drop 496 tokens. You can also earn, or get as rare drops, an item that upgrades those 496 items to 535.

    Since most LFR people from TOT probably have an ilvl of about 520 right now, that is a nice upgrade, and even higher than SoO LFR gear. There are no weapons, and I think only 1 trinket, and also no set bonuses.. but still it is a lot of good upgrades, especially if you are replacing a 502 item from LFR.

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    Quote where Blizzard said that.

    In fact, they said the exact opposite today ( read blue posts above). They said that LFR and Flex are gated to make them more comparable to how people raid normal. Except for world first guilds, most people take many weeks or months to get to the final boss.
    Sure


    Originally Posted by Taepsilum
    Hello my fellow non-murloc creatures of Azeroth,

    Please allow me to chip in with a few updated bits of information about LFR, I hope that you view this as an improvement and a step in the right direction over the current version of LFR. We do hear you and your feedback is seriously taken into consideration each time we decide to apply any change to the game.

    We know that competitive players seem to dislike the idea of having to go through LFR to get some upgrades and that some will always go there as long as there is any chance at all of getting the slightest competitive advantage from it.

    Of course we would prefer that LFR wasn’t part of the progression path for guilds that are raiding normal/heroic content, and so we have made some additional adjustments for the next iteration of LFR, for example:

    - Currently we have two separate item levels in LFR, items from the last 2 encounters have a level of 390, while the rest have 384, this made the LFR gear from Deathwing a bit too attractive for just about everyone, including hardcore raiders, so we’ve decided that this needed to be changed for MoP.

    Our initial intention was that this difference would work as a special reward for beating such difficult encounters but that didn’t really translate in LFR since those encounters don’t have a difficulty that is relevant enough for this reward to be warranted.

    Basically our intention for MoP is that if we decide to give a slight bump and increase the loot table ilvl of end bosses, that same bump won’t be applied to LFR but only to normal/heroic modes.

    - While the LFR gear from a new tier will continue to be slightly better than the normal difficulty items from the previous tier, we’ll structure the power level of future tiers’ LFR loot so that it doesn’t replace Heroic gear from the previous raid, and we’re continuing to discuss other solutions internally to limit the pressure for competitive raiders to run LFR.

    - We’ve also made a slight change on how Terrace of Endless Spring and Heart of Fear are going to roll out. These two raids will still be split into three separate queues for LFR, but we no longer plan to release them all on the same day, instead, we’ll unlock one queue each week. We hope that by the time all of the bosses are available in LFR, organized raiders will have had two full weeks to work on normal difficulty and one week for Heroic difficulty.

    While I don’t expect this to completely stop raiding guilds from feeling some need to go into LFR, I hope that it will provide less incentive, they shouldn’t feel obligated to continue running LFR for a long time on top of their normal/heroic progression, I’d say if LFR remains somewhat interesting for 2-3 weeks to some players that want one or two specific items from there, that’s not such a big issue.
    and from TOT
    Originally Posted by Draztal

    You can't really put them into separate buckets and ignore each other. It's not your LFR, neither is their Normal of Heroic raid.

    LFR can be a source of loot for raiders that aren't at the bleeding edge of progression. So, in fact, it does become a place for upgrades the moment it is available unless you're already decked out in HoF/ToES Heroic epics, which means you'll have an "easier" time on Normal Throne of Thunder, particularly on the earlier bosses.

    The reasoning of the developers here is that most normal raiders won't see Lei Shen for some time, and if they've been stomping him for weeks on LFR first, then their guild experience on Normal is significantly diminished.

    They're also releasing the first two wings faster than the last two to make sure those of you waiting for LFR have something to enjoy sooner rather than later.
    Last edited by But I Hate You All; 2013-09-04 at 11:51 PM.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Why do they keep doing this?


    Let's gate Normal and Heroic modes.
    Why do they keep doing what? If you cant put in the effort to do normal-modes Im sure you can wait a few weeks.

    Kids these days

  11. #271
    I always hated this stupid gated system.

  12. #272
    I'm sorry, and I've defended Blizzard for a lot of dumb shit in the past, but this just takes the cake. What an absolutely disgusting way to wring more money from subscribers. An entire month and ten days before someone can finish an LFR run? And they have the gall to use the excuse that they don't want heroic raiders to feel like they have to do LFR for gear.. Bit of a newsflash Blizzard heroic raiders are the people who will give you $30 to get 1% more DPS. This is so stupid I don't even know where to begin with it. Fuck Blizzard.

  13. #273
    Perhaps Blizzard should open all LFR wings at once, but merge the raid-lockout of lfr with the normal/heroic ones, so that normal/heroic raiders would effectively be removed from lfr groups. As a result the lfr crowd could have its full content revealed on day 1 of the patch, but would face a form of progression nonetheless.

  14. #274
    I mainly run LFR now and it doesn't bother me one bit that they extend it out. As a matter of fact, the slower I get to it the better. Inevitably this xpack is going to be like Cata with nothing to do for a very long time after the final raid is released and before the next expansion, so I'm in no hurry.

  15. #275
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyand1337 View Post
    Perhaps Blizzard should open all LFR wings at once, but merge the raid-lockout of lfr with the normal/heroic ones, so that normal/heroic raiders would effectively be removed from lfr groups. As a result the lfr crowd could have its full content revealed on day 1 of the patch, but would face a form of progression nonetheless.
    That's too logical! Anything logical usually doesn't make it through :P

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    If you have a 25M or a 10M raid, then you have people on standby. You have to. So basically every week you are telling someone to be online at an exact time, and then telling them they aren´t coming. I know this is normal everyday stuff for raiders, but it sucks.

    Flex raiding requires 2 tanks and 2 healers until you get up to about 14 total, then you will need 3 healers. The power of the boss scales regressively, meaning the 10th dps is not expected to do as much dps as the 9th., the same is true of boss damage.

    Yeah, you are still going to want your tanks to show up every week, and 2 of your healers.. but after that, there isn´t much stress on people who miss.
    Most guilds have a bench, almost all raiders understand this bench and why it's required but most don't complain especially in good guilds that rotate people in and out. We use a spreadsheet to determine what people need gear off of what bosses and swap them out. I have sat out many raids in my time of raiding but it's all about time management, you use the time that you're sitting out to do other tasks instead of just sitting there going, "OMG I AM SOOO BORRRREEEEDDD". There are guilds who do NOT have a bench but those are the guilds you described as having problems with, if you miss a raid or multiple raids you get replaced, that's to be expected. Don't join a guild like that. YOU are joining the guild, YOU can look around and FIND a guild that fits your playstyle and schedule, find something with a bench that is more casual. The guild I was in prior to joining my current guild was extremely casual and players were replaced based on performance and attendance, if you play really well but you never show up? Don't expect to get in, Play alright and show up most of the time? You'll get in. In any case you should expect to sit for people with higher attendance, they are just more dependable but you're not entitled to a spot. You want that spot you need to show up, plain and simple. It's just like anything else in life, can't expect to half ass it at your job and get the same pay and perks as the guy who shows up 20 minutes early and works thirty minutes late each day.

    To start the group you will still have to gather at a scheduled time, it's not just something where people can show up whenever they want (maybe after the first ten, yes but you still need the original ten) you can't just show up whenever and a group magically appears. I will tell you from my experience of killing multiple bosses in flex on the PTR, it does not work like you're describing. It got harder, quite a bit harder to the point that we had to drop lower dps players because the high dps weren't able to carry them.




    This thread overall makes me sad, instant gratification and so many people who feel entitled to the LFR raids. You aren't forced to wait, you can kill garrosh the first week you just need to raid normal. A little effort won't kill you.

  17. #277
    High Overlord
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    lol ... that is a lot of pages of whining about getting gear that will be replaced two hours into next expansion ...

    your gearing to level folks ... ease up.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    LFR people please. You're not even supposed to play this game as you are not necessary. Refrain from complaining.
    Most retarded comment I've read in a long time...

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by enchanted View Post
    Oh great... Looks like another month before I resub. Would be a pain for me to enter normals with no experience of previous MoP raids (except LFR) and on a dead realm. Well done blizz and not opening LFR the first week. But again, got no exp in MoP raids since I've quit back in oct after I dinged 90 and came back just 2 months ago.
    I wish there was a website that had videos of the fights you could watch. I'm surprised nobody has come up with a site like that, they'd be rich! Oh well, watching a video is super hard anyways so I doubt it would work out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilm View Post
    Went into Lfr yesterday on a alt for the first time in 2 months still the whole raid wiping on easy mechs, gonna be funny with flex coming out and normal/heroic players are doing flex on mains and alts not carrying Lfr groups, save ur tears for that not the release sched
    This right here. You guys are going to get dehydrated if you're crying over a release schedule. You'll need that hydration for the pain you're in for when the wings are finally open.

  20. #280
    more than 1 month to kill garrosh in lfr? Meh, luckily I got FFXIV

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