Siege of Orgrimmar Raid Schedule

[Erolian]

The only thing the release schedule really does is makes sure to ignore the fact that just because someone does LFR/Flex it does NOT mean that they have a casual amount of playtime in game. Sure they might be bad or just don't want to do organized raiding but its pretty silly to assume that they all also don't play often. It pretty much screws anyone that plays often but doesn't run normal/heroic

[Drummerboy]

Like I stated above LFR is what's keeping this game from sinking as fast as it would. I already said why I don't have the time to dedicate to WoW, if you can't figure that out, then you might be neglecting things you shouldn't.

I'm not interested in being a hippie because I sold my drums, grew up and now have real responsibility like raising children.

LFR is NOT what's keeping this game going as the stats I've seen in the past actually still showed that the vast majority of players don't even run LFR thereby not representing the majority of WoW players and thereby not what is keeping WoW alive.

[unholyness]

The kind of behavior you're exhibiting here is amusing. "I can't argue against anything you said, so I'm going to troll your armory. I'll still have lost the argument, but at least my ego will be temporarily inflated."

Actually if you read back it was refuting the idea that he stated he was a good raider which nowhere in his raiding since 2008 has he downed anything while it was current content which he implied. Look at the other's who have done the same earlier in this thread but I am suprised it took you so long to get here but where is glorious leader?I am sure he will be here soon as well.

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The only thing the release schedule really does is makes sure to ignore the fact that just because someone does LFR/Flex it does NOT mean that they have a casual amount of playtime in game. Sure they might be bad or just don't want to do organized raiding but its pretty silly to assume that they all also don't play often. It pretty much screws anyone that plays often but doesn't run normal/heroic

I know for a fact that most of my 'casual' friends play Wow much more than I do. Some are just bad and can't progress well even with more time spent raiding and other's do other things in the game but they all spend much more time in game than myself.

[BobAwesome]

That's the best part about Wowprogress is that it shows your history of being in crap baddie guilds with zero progression and next to no one in those guilds even on a bad server you still look even worse. Guild after guild you went to hoping to be carried only to latch onto another guild soon after that. Ya you were quite the 'raider' pal.

Funny thing about wowprogress... It only goes back to wotlk and it doesn't track name changes or server transfers or alts so keep acting like hot shit buddy, because your personality sure smells like it.

[Azrile]

They're almost as delicious as the tears of the snowflake hardcores.

I'm going to plod through normal in a month or so then finish heroic over the next two like usual so idc really.

But from an unbiased view, it is pretty dumb to gate it that long. You're going to have the people that only do lfr do one wing, log out and in that two weeks they may decide it's not worth paying for. Same with people planning to only flex. (Which, if you haven't been paying attention, is about 90% of subscribers.)

Huge gamble on Blizzards part.

Just a couple things

1. Timeless island is going to have almost complete upgrades for people who only did ToT LFR ( and more than likely have all the 522 stuff). On Timeless island, players can get up to 543 gear (535 plus 8). Timeless island is built much more for LFR raiders as it is actually gear progression for them. So if you ONLY do LFR, then you will have plenty to do besides your 1 or 2 wings per week.

2. Flex is cross realm and very puggable - If you are one of those LFR raiders that is sitting at ilvl 520ish.. it should be very easy to start, or join a Flex pug and kill the first few bosses, they are very easy. This is one of Blizzards main goals with Flex... they want people to constantly be dipping their toes in the next difficulty level. If you are an LFR person only, you should be looking at pugging or OpenRaiding the first few bosses of Flex when you can.

3. Guilds that are doing Flex mode only will probably quickly have the first 2-3 bosses on farm. By the 4th week (when they don´t get a new wing).. is the perfect time to try to kill the first couple bosses on normal.

But for your argument..I think #1 is the answer. Timeless Island is actually better loot (with burdens) then SoO LFR.

I was an LFR only person in the past, but this patch my guild is going to be doing Flex. I am perfectly happy with this schedule because it allows me so many options Timeless Island for instant upgrades, a few bosses of flex with my guild, A few bosses of flex on Openraid if my guild can´t clear them, dipping our toes in normal mode in week 4-5 if we are facerolling flex.

But for people who have no use for Flex and don´t to do anything but LFR.. you still have a ton of upgrades on Timeless island.

[Frizzlewits]

Ya you care about raiding considering you arent even subbed, not even playing trying to down Normal mode yet somehow you expect to enter normals without even being subbed as you whine and cry? Xsfer off the dead realm. All of the people on here saying they are going to unsub or wont sub again, thank you, please dont ever come back.

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Actually raiders do get preference and if you don't see that then you haven't been playing this game for very long. People like to point at ego or elitism to the other player's who like a challenge but perhaps those people should name themselves, lazy, whiny and bad.

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Funny part is he prob doesnt even have the gear to play that wing and will whine and cry about it if he does resub. This schedule is good for raiders and I don't see anything wrong with it.

my warlock has 511 itemlvl and we need 496, so its all good.
my sub ended afted i was finished gearing in LFR and had no more use for valor.
i had 0 reason to be subbed till 5.4
last few days i only logged on to chat and use the wow forums.

[Stormykitten]

Let's hope the realms tech is good, cause otherwise it's a wait until 22 oct on my server

[Sills]

Normal and Flex Wing 1 on launch? That is exactly what I need right out of the gate. I am quite pleased. My guild is using our regular raid schedule for normals and we are adding a day specifically for Flex. Should be fun!

[Ebonwraith]

Funny thing about wowprogress... It only goes back to wotlk and it doesn't track name changes or server transfers or alts so keep acting like hot shit buddy, because your personality sure smells like it.

Actually it does track xfers and alts, but that's a bit beyond the point, and I think you know it. You aren't even arguing your original point anymore, you're arguing with unholyness. Care to tell me why, if you care so deeply about this game, and wish you could have things in it, you're on mmoc forums picking arguments with other posters, instead of using your apparent free time in an otherwise overloaded schedule, to enjoy the game you're so adamantly passionate about?

[Azrile]

I just returned to WoW a couple of weeks ago and one thing that amazes me is how many artificial gates, limitations and mechanisms there are now that are designed simply to stretch out the game experience so that people will stay subscribed.

I think that WoW is the last gasp of the linear content progression endgame model for MMOs. WoWs Raids are very cool and fun to experience once or twice. However they are not fun to grind on week after week because everything is scripted and happens the same way every time. Eventually somebody will need to come up with a dynamic endgame where raids and dungeons change and vary and feel more real.

The great failure of the WoW raid model is that it is too much like synchronized swimming practice. You bring a team, you put in your hours of practice and eventually you learn to dance the complex dance with perfect timing. Sure it can be rewarding in a way but at a big price in grind and boredom.

What is another option. Show me a game that has endgame group content done any differently?

And you are crazy wrong about new games changing anything. The exact opposite is true. You realize Rift recently added an LFD tool? If Rift and Swtor´s failure tells new game developers anything, is that it better launch with all the tools and features of WOW. Swtor and Rift are both scrambling to add player-suggested wow features. LFD was just the latest example.

[unholyness]

Funny thing about wowprogress... It only goes back to wotlk and it doesn't track name changes or server transfers or alts so keep acting like hot shit buddy, because your personality sure smells like it.

Actually it does track alts,server transfers and goes back to T8 which is pretty good. Nice server btw.

[Osmeric]

You realize Rift recently added an LFD tool?

Rift added an LFD tool in 2011.

[Azrile]

If flex was fully available the first week, guilds would feel compelled to run flex and normal.

This isn't about 'keeping subscribers artificially by gating the content'. This is about how guilds often 'force' their members to do everything that's available. Solution? Gate normal/heroic content? Or gate LFR/Flex? Or open everything at once with the knowledge that people will be 'forced' to raid far too much at the start of the tier and burn out?

The other part of it is that Flex and LFR raiders will have a lot to do on Timeless island as the gear drops on Timeless islands will be upgrades for anyone who didn´t do a lot of normal modes in ToT. Yes, my guild will only have 3 bosses to kill in Flex mode the first week, but all of us will have a gear upgrade for every slot from timeless island.

[unholyness]

Actually it does track xfers and alts, but that's a bit beyond the point, and I think you know it. You aren't even arguing your original point anymore, you're arguing with unholyness. Care to tell me why, if you care so deeply about this game, and wish you could have things in it, you're on mmoc forums picking arguments with other posters, instead of using your apparent free time in an otherwise overloaded schedule, to enjoy the game you're so adamantly passionate about?

You will also see people with thousands upon thousands of posts state they dont have time to get better at the game or raid yet if you look at their posts will see that at times they will post all day long.

[BobAwesome]

You are, clearly. At least in the context of WoW. Let's examine the evidence:

Lazy: You can only devote some time Sunday afternoon to the game, in your own words, yet expect-nay, demand access to everything as soon as possible. That last part is the key: You CAN see everything, but you are (assuming you are an LFR player) unwilling to wait until October to do so, no you MUST see it the same rate as everyone else despite only being able to devote time seemingly one day a week.

Whiny: You are complaining about how you "have many more activities which [you] enjoy", how unfair it is to me made to wait, and how you are "entitled to see all of the content that is available" but again, you CAN see the content you just seem unwilling to wait. As an analogy, if you were in line at a theme park you seem to be demanding that you get access to it the same time as the VIP people do, because you paid for a ticket.

Bad: "No longer wish to confine [yourself] to the restraints of filling out guild applications". Claims that "back in the day" you raided hardcore, but now you can't.

So in conclusion, the accused is lazy due to demanding equal access without the same time investment, whiny because they demand access at the same rate as those who are more invested due to paying the same amount, and bad due to not being able to put in the same effort anymore but expecting the same results.

Lazy would imply that I want it now, which I don't, I'm fine with waiting until October. I just don't want it split up. Either release all the wings on Sep. 10th or wait until October.

I'm not whiny about so called "VIP" (you're not really VIP, VIP's would actually pay more and thus actually be entitled to a faster release) I'm just stating that you folks who think, because you invest more time, you are entitled more than someone else when you're not.

If I was bad, I wouldn't be able to avoid fire, laser beams and other mechanics and that's hardly the case. This game is anything but hard now days.

[Osmeric]

The other part of it is that Flex and LFR raiders will have a lot to do on Timeless island as the gear drops on Timeless islands will be upgrades for anyone who didn´t do a lot of normal modes in ToT. Yes, my guild will only have 3 bosses to kill in Flex mode the first week, but all of us will have a gear upgrade for every slot from timeless island.

Why would LFR raiders need these upgrades?

[Azrile]

GC tweeted this last week that Flex is not available for cross realm raiding but may be available later in the patch. Old raids you can but he stated specifically that Flex isn't meant to be used cross realm, at least for the present.

haha, quote please, because you are completely wrong. Flex is completely cross-realm.

[DetectiveJohnKimble]

I am prepared for our raid, but i'd prefer not to be forced into watching videos. There's a tool like lfr in the game already that allows me to see the mechanics of the fight while i'm actually playing the game. Holding it back makes 0 sense.

That's not the purpose of LFR in this game, so I don't see why Blizzard would care about that.

[Azrile]

No... I'm stating that as a player on a dead realm it would be very hard for me to run normals even to do the old raids. I'm just saying why didn't blizz atleast open the first wing of LFR on release for people out there on dead realms to find something to do.

People who only did ToT LFR and spent their VP on SPA gear probably have an ilvl of 520ish. Timeless Island drops 535 gear that can be uprgraded to 543. Besides that, the reality is the first few bosses of Flex-SoO are pretty easy. I am sure most realms you will be able to start a pug and kill a few of them. If not, look at OpenRaid.us

[unholyness]

haha, quote please, because you are completely wrong. Flex is completely cross-realm.

GC tweeted that the server's will not be connected on patch day which makes sense since there is already a lot going on that day but that they will be joined in the very near future after 5.4 launches. This effects cross realm raiding in Flex as they seem to be connected which is what the tweet was originally about was when the servers would be joined. I don't care either way as I won't be running it but that was the reasoning behind it. It will happen in 5.4 but not on launch date.