Siege of Orgrimmar Raid Schedule

[Jaylock]

Wow, this whining and qq from the entitled casual playerbase is amazing. They wan be just lik teh hardkor rayiders! They wan all purpl epix nao in their hands! It is this entitlement that has ruined this game. Hey guess what casual players, maybe this game isnt for you with the amount of whining you do on such little things.

[Ebonwraith]

The issue being your scenario would be such an astronomically low possibility I wouldn't even consider it as good data to any sort of analysis. And to be perfectly clear. There are many, -MANY- Lfr raiders who are ex normal, ex heroic that not only take the effort to spend 5 minutes at icy veins.com and learn how2class, but also know how to gear it and spec it. And yes, there are people that stack stam as BRM monks or don't use thunder focus tea (giving broad examples because I'm not listing every possible fault) and that's pretty bad on their part, however the point still remains that a situation where 25 random people (heroic raiders, normal raiders, good players running said content, idiots, players who have gear but play subpar) could still defeat a 25 normal raid boss, as they did in times previous. Would it take time to do such things, and much understanding on the parts of the players who don't know any better? Yes. Will there be hiccups, stupid wipes? Yes. Will it be the smoothest run ever? No. But people aren't as stupid as you claim them to be.

Again mana, I must really be failing at communicating my point >.< I wasn't laying out a hypothetical scenario where it's wotlk and lfr just got implemented, and lo and behold, and of the 25 people that just got grouped, not a single one has ever raided. I was just commenting on the overall state of people in lfr. Of course there are people who are very skilled who do lfr, may have done bleeding edge progression in the past even. I was never saying anything contrary, just that the stereotypical lfr player, and we all know the kind of player I mean, would not have been doing raids back in wrath, or before 4.3 for that matter.

[Deleted]

For Blizzard it is business: There is nothing to gain by opening all of LFR week 1. Those who say they will sub later when all is open would still just sub now and leave after one month as they will in October. Those who are still subbed would just kill Garrosh next week and unsub and never come back till next expansion.

Please tell me what will Blizzard gain by opening all of LFR in week 1.

[But I Hate You All]

Wow, this whining and qq from the entitled casual playerbase is amazing. They wan be just lik teh hardkor rayiders! They wan all purpl epix nao in their hands! It is this entitlement that has ruined this game. Hey guess what casual players, maybe this game isnt for you with the amount of whining you do on such little things.

That's funny...http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?q=jaylock that's you right? You should not scream about casual players and act like your a hardcore raider when you only done lfr.

[Ebonwraith]

Say it with me Blizzard is a business, They want to make money. Who would you cater to? the majority of your customers or the minority?



Well the funny thing is those people are probably unsubbed allready and wont resub till all wings of LFR are unlocked. In fact if I do recall correctly the reason why they said they gated LFR was because Raiders in raiding guilds bitched, whined, cryed, pissed and moaned how they were forced to do lfr.

But that was my original point to you, that is NOT why it's gated. It's gated to mimic standard normal/heroic progression by normal/heroic guilds. Players crying on the forums has never been why blizzard changes things in their game. That's not to say they don't take in feedback on matters, but the crowd that gets on the forums and says "Hey blizzard, fuck these noobs and lfr, us REAL raiders deserve to see it first" is ignored, I promise you.

[Azrile]

To be fair, it's not really any different than playing a sport. I used to play Hockey 3-4 times a week(2x training 2x games) and I would absolutely schedule my other real life stuff around that, now that I'm a bit older I use that time for WoW. It's not a huge commitment, but if you can play 10-12 hours a week you can definitely raid normal+, you just need to want to... Clearly you don't. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't try and make up excuses for it.

Exactly, it is about the desire to schedule to raid. I was arguing against the guy who said that most people didn´t raid because they were ´bad´. Agree with you exactly, it is just making a commitment to say that raiding on those nights is a priority.

I am going to be raiding flex when 5.4 starts ( my first real raiding since vanilla). The biggest draw for me is the flex part of it. if I am miss a week, it is not a huge issue, nor will there be guild drama, nor will I lose my spot the next week etc etc. That has always been my issue with raiding since vanilla. If you have 10 or 25 man teams, then two things are going to happen. You are going to have to punish people who don´t show up, and at the same time, you are going to have to have ´extras´on standby who end up not being able to raid with you. Those two ´scheduling´ issue are what kept me out of raiding all these years. I don´t want ingame drama if something happens in my personal life, and now as a guild leader, I don´t want to have to punish people for not showing up, or to have to sit someone who does show up but doesn´t have a slot available.

It should be fairly easy to keep a 15 man team going.. and if we grow to 20 and start pushing 25, easy to break into two groups without ever having to sit anyone or having any ackward moments with those hard and fast 10 man limits.

[But I Hate You All]

For Blizzard it is business: There is nothing to gain by opening all of LFR week 1. Those who say they will sub later when all is open would still just sub now and leave after one month as they will in October. Those who are still subbed would just kill Garrosh next week and unsub and never come back till next expansion.

Please tell me what will Blizzard gain by opening all of LFR in week 1.

To be honest they gain nothing. As said before they said they gated LFR was because Raiders in raiding guilds bitched, whined, cryed, pissed and moaned how they were forced to do lfr.

[Manabomb]

Again mana, I must really be failing at communicating my point >.< I wasn't laying out a hypothetical scenario where it's wotlk and lfr just got implemented, and lo and behold, and of the 25 people that just got grouped, not a single one has ever raided. I was just commenting on the overall state of people in lfr. Of course there are people who are very skilled who do lfr, may have done bleeding edge progression in the past even. I was never saying anything contrary, just that the stereotypical lfr player, and we all know the kind of player I mean, would not have been doing raids back in wrath, or before 4.3 for that matter.

In that particular post I was pointing more toward a current tier 25 man raid boss that 25 random people would be able to complete, with relative difficulty, but still complete.

Yes, there are stereotypical lfr players, but you're honestly willing to punish a few idiots for the purpose of feeling better about a title or normal/heroic weapons, other than defeating it on 1-3 difficulties higher than the rest? It's stupidity.

[Azrile]

Wow, this whining and qq from the entitled casual playerbase is amazing. They wan be just lik teh hardkor rayiders! They wan all purpl epix nao in their hands! It is this entitlement that has ruined this game. Hey guess what casual players, maybe this game isnt for you with the amount of whining you do on such little things.

I am on neither side of this argument. But let me ask you this. What do you think this thread would look like if LFR was launched on day 1. It would be full of raiders crying and complaining about being forced to run LFR. The words would be different, but the amount of crying would be exactly the same.

Also, in this entire thread, I believe I saw 2 players who actually complained about the delayed release of LFR. 13 pages of posts, 2 complaints.. not sure that is very much.

[Jaylock]

That's funny...http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?q=jaylock that's you right? You should not scream about casual players and act like your a hardcore raider when you only done lfr.

It seems as though some people lack the capacity to think, and jump to conclusions very quickly on these forums. Did you ever think about the fact that players have alt characters? Did you ever think about the fact that jaylock is just a forum name that I use? Did you ever think about the fact that I am no longer subbed to this game, and therefore it would not matter what content I have, or have not done. Also, do you see me crying about content not being available right away?

No. I am not whining, and I am fair in my assessment that it is lame and pathetic that people are doing so, and it highlights the entitled nature of the casual playerbase.

[Azrile]

For Blizzard it is business: There is nothing to gain by opening all of LFR week 1. Those who say they will sub later when all is open would still just sub now and leave after one month as they will in October. Those who are still subbed would just kill Garrosh next week and unsub and never come back till next expansion.

Please tell me what will Blizzard gain by opening all of LFR in week 1.

Agreed completely. People here do not realize that anyone who only runs LFR has a huge amount of upgrades available to them on the Timeless Island. There are, I would guess, 0 players who are going to log in on Sept 10th and say ´omg, there is no LFR, I have nothing to do this week´..

[Jaylock]

I am on neither side of this argument. But let me ask you this. What do you think this thread would look like if LFR was launched on day 1. It would be full of raiders crying and complaining about being forced to run LFR. The words would be different, but the amount of crying would be exactly the same.

Also, in this entire thread, I believe I saw 2 players who actually complained about the delayed release of LFR. 13 pages of posts, 2 complaints.. not sure that is very much.

Saying things like "oh i guess it looks like I will be only resubbing on the 22th of october" is an implication of qq and entitled attitudes from the casual playerbase.

[But I Hate You All]

It seems as though some people lack the capacity to think, and jump to conclusions very quickly on these forums. Did you ever think about the fact that players have alt characters? Did you ever think about the fact that jaylock is just a forum name that I use? Did you ever think about the fact that I am no longer subbed to this game, and therefore it would not matter what content I have, or have not done. Also, do you see me crying about content not being available right away?

No. I am not whining, and I am fair in my assessment that it is lame and pathetic that people are doing so, and it highlights the entitled nature of the casual playerbase.

Nope got it from your old sig and there is no reason to be upset that I pointed out you seem pretty Causal your self but hey don't let me interrupt your whining about people whining

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed completely. People here do not realize that anyone who only runs LFR has a huge amount of upgrades available to them on the Timeless Island. There are, I would guess, 0 players who are going to log in on Sept 10th and say ´omg, there is no LFR, I have nothing to do this week´..

What Il is the Timeless isle stuff

- - - Updated - - -

Saying things like "oh i guess it looks like I will be only resubbing on the 22th of october" is an implication of qq and entitled attitudes from the casual playerbase.

As Azrile said TWO people were complaining

[Ebonwraith]

In that particular post I was pointing more toward a current tier 25 man raid boss that 25 random people would be able to complete, with relative difficulty, but still complete.

Yes, there are stereotypical lfr players, but you're honestly willing to punish a few idiots for the purpose of feeling better about a title or normal/heroic weapons, other than defeating it on 1-3 difficulties higher than the rest? It's stupidity.

Wait what? No, I don't care that players get to do lfr, doesn't bother me at all. Not sure where you drew that conclusion about me from. To each his own, like I said in this thread a while back, I only play with my guildmates, so lfr has zero impact on me. I don't think I'm a special snowflake, never have.

[Shudder]

I'm loving the wait for the LFR heroes. In my opinion it should be longer. Gating is the only way to make them experience "progression". You should never be able to down the final boss in 30 minutes.

[But I Hate You All]

I'm loving the wait for the LFR heroes. In my opinion it should be longer. Gating is the only way to make them experience "progression". You should never be able to down the final boss in 30 minutes.

Meh as someone said earlier "oh i guess it looks like I will be only re-subbing on the 22th of October". Blizzard already said Gating was added to LFR because Raiders in raiding keep saying they are forced to do lfr.

[Airwaves]

Wow, this whining and qq from the entitled casual playerbase is amazing. They wan be just lik teh hardkor rayiders! They wan all purpl epix nao in their hands! It is this entitlement that has ruined this game. Hey guess what casual players, maybe this game isnt for you with the amount of whining you do on such little things.

Casuals at 99% of the player base. The game is for them and blizzard knows it. They wouldn't have had to have LFR to begin with if it wasn't the case.

[sergel02]

My sub will run out before I can kill Garrosh =(

Well actually i think that Wednesday it does, so I gotta hustle when it's out.

[Dextar]

Exactly, it is about the desire to schedule to raid. I was arguing against the guy who said that most people didn´t raid because they were ´bad´. Agree with you exactly, it is just making a commitment to say that raiding on those nights is a priority.

I am going to be raiding flex when 5.4 starts ( my first real raiding since vanilla). The biggest draw for me is the flex part of it. if I am miss a week, it is not a huge issue, nor will there be guild drama, nor will I lose my spot the next week etc etc. That has always been my issue with raiding since vanilla. If you have 10 or 25 man teams, then two things are going to happen. You are going to have to punish people who don´t show up, and at the same time, you are going to have to have ´extras´on standby who end up not being able to raid with you. Those two ´scheduling´ issue are what kept me out of raiding all these years. I don´t want ingame drama if something happens in my personal life, and now as a guild leader, I don´t want to have to punish people for not showing up, or to have to sit someone who does show up but doesn´t have a slot available.

It should be fairly easy to keep a 15 man team going.. and if we grow to 20 and start pushing 25, easy to break into two groups without ever having to sit anyone or having any ackward moments with those hard and fast 10 man limits.

Pretty sure you're completely disconnected from raiding with Flex. You aren't just going to be able to show up and raid you're still going to have to follow a schedule with the other people, nothing changes as far as missing weeks. The only nice thing is you can add and remove people but I'll tell you, if you don't have enough healers you will not just be able to run with whomever you want and you'll be stuck with having people sit outside.

You say you haven't raided since vanilla, it sounds to me like you were left with a terrible experience and a bad raid leader/GM. People have lives, we have people miss but we have the roster to replace them but obviously those with higher attendance get priority but it doesn't mean you're booted from the guild. You can argue scheduling is the issue all you want but flex still comes with many of the issues that you are complaining about. Quit making excuses and trying to justify them.

[SinR]

Why do they keep doing this?


Let's gate Normal and Heroic modes.

week 1: Vale LFR/Flex/Normal open up
week 2: Gates LFR/Flex/Normal open up
week 3: Underhold LFR/Flex/Normal open up
week 4: Downfall LFR/Flex/Normal open up
week 5: Heroic Vale unlocks
week 6: Heroic Gates
week 7: Heroic Underhold
week 8: Heroic Downfall