1. #1

    Can disc priests with metagem/higher item level be able to pw:s spam?

    Currently 9600 spirit no legendary meta. mana just drops like a rock it's embarassing to heal outside of atonement spam.

    Other people are just laughing at my throughput as they do 150k+, if only I could indefinitely cast pw:s or PoH i could stand a chance.

  2. #2
    I don't have the LMG and have 11k spirit, still able to PW:S spam.
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  3. #3
    Get more spirit, only worth it to drop sub-10k if you got Legendary Meta. Otherwise experiement with 11-12k Spirit.

  4. #4
    Here's hoping for gear with actual spirit and a 2nd mana regen trinket then.

  5. #5
    With 5.4 next reset, Rapture will always act as if you have 9K spirit, no more scaling. It becomes worth significantly less at that point. But yea, with the LMG, shield spam becomes quite comfortable, no matter the level of spirit you have, as long as you time your shields and halo's with the procs.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Next patch spirit above 10k is pointless and it depends what you mean by spam PWS. You cannot roll PWS infinitely unless you have absolutely massive spirit (>18k) in 5.3. In 5.4 you cannot do that period. LMG is not a reliable way to spam PWS, it lets you cast quite a few for free when it procs, but unfortunately there is no guarantee that it will come everytime you want to roll PWS on your raid. You should certainly use it, but it won't make PWS spam sustainable.

    I think you are making a grave error in thinking that somehow PWS spam will magically fix your HPS. It won't work. If you have enough spirit to fill most of your available casting time with PWS, you throughput will be abysmal anyway, due to the massive loss in throughput stats and the fact that can do more healing for less mana if you use all your tools effectively.

    Your playstyle is different in 10s or 25s, but the principle is the same. PWS is not your only or even your most effective spell for building absorb buffers. Spirit shell, inner focus and your level 90 talent through aegis together can be used to build absorbs. Halo is particularly good for building big absorbs, because whether by design or accident at some point after 5.2 there is no diminishing returns on it. You can hit your entire raid for an average of 150k and every crit will leave behind a 180k+ aegis stack. Halo is best used just as the high damage phase begins, so that you get both the heal and the big aegis stack.

    It was recently pointed out to me that divine star has diminishing returns but only targets which are not 100% overhealed by it are counted. That means for a 25man raid you should use divine star before the damage hits and hit everyone twice for 60k, leaving a 70k+ aegis stack behind for each crit.

    Aside from that you need to time your archangel to coincide with your maximal HPS output periods.

    So the trick is basically to build a big absorb buffer using spirit shell, PWS and your level 90 talent at the right time before big incoming DPS phases and conserve mana using atonement healing when the damage is low. Your level 90 talent is critical and can make or break your HPS.

  7. #7
    I wish we could just get an official comment on this as the debating of "No I'M right!" ..... "NO I'M RIGHT!" is getting rather old. I'd just like to hear from a dev whether this is truly changed (fixed) or if its the same as on live. That is all.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sherman9800 View Post
    I wish we could just get an official comment on this as the debating of "No I'M right!" ..... "NO I'M RIGHT!" is getting rather old. I'd just like to hear from a dev whether this is truly changed (fixed) or if its the same as on live. That is all.
    Wrong thread?

    OT: no, you can't spam PW:S ala WotLK days where everyone always had a Weakened Soul debuff. Can you use it more often? Sure can. Does LMG always proc conveniently to utilize all the PW:S you can cast during proc? Sure doesn't.

    Even if, however, it procs during lulls where you're only Atonement healing, it's still a mana savings and reduces the amount of spirit you need.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    PWS is awful for its mana cost. Keeping it on Rapture cooldown is great, but I wouldn't touch it as an actual healing spell while Rapture is on cooldown. It's an emergency/preparation "cooldown", totally situational and barely belonging into a normal healing rotation. You mostly save people with it.

    Your mana regeneration is somewhere around ~3000/sec with shadowfiend and trinket on cooldown, with solace it's maybe ~4000/sec. I'm not sure how anyone is going to spend ~10000 mana/sec for more than 20 seconds. While the LMG proc is up? Maybe. But that is assuming that the targets you are going to shield aren't debuffed and are going to take damage predictably within the next 15 seconds, conditions which I find doubtful.

    12k spirit won't allow you to PWS spam either. Neither will 20k spirit. 9k is a good guideline right now, 11000 spirit on top of that would be another ~1200mana/sec, or 5200/sec with the example above. That still doesn't get you anywhere near to PWS spam either. Not to mention that you just dumped 11000 of throughput stats into pure mana regeneration.

    If Discs appear on healing meters with 150k+ it's because of SS and PoH, certainly not because of a single target shield.

    Havoc12 explained it quite well. Disc is not about PWS.

  10. #10
    only spam shield if

    A: on full mana and know there is a rest phase coming up (lei shen intermission/durumu maze)

    B:LMG proc (proced 6 times in a row on megera this week lol)

    @OP prob cant spam shield all day everyday with bis gear with recent rapture nerf
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Selesnya View Post
    While the LMG proc is up? Maybe. But that is assuming that the targets you are going to shield aren't debuffed and are going to take damage predictably within the next 15 seconds, conditions which I find doubtful.
    It's hard to think of a fight in ToT where there isn't some kind of raid damage for 15 seconds. Maybe Horridon between doors?

    It's free healing so you might as well take it - if the raid needs healing then it's easy to pick targets, and if the raid is topped then you might as well put up free PWS instead of atonement.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Selesnya View Post
    PWS is awful for its mana cost. Keeping it on Rapture cooldown is great, but I wouldn't touch it as an actual healing spell while Rapture is on cooldown. It's an emergency/preparation "cooldown", totally situational and barely belonging into a normal healing rotation. You mostly save people with it.

    Your mana regeneration is somewhere around ~3000/sec with shadowfiend and trinket on cooldown, with solace it's maybe ~4000/sec. I'm not sure how anyone is going to spend ~10000 mana/sec for more than 20 seconds. While the LMG proc is up? Maybe. But that is assuming that the targets you are going to shield aren't debuffed and are going to take damage predictably within the next 15 seconds, conditions which I find doubtful.

    12k spirit won't allow you to PWS spam either. Neither will 20k spirit. 9k is a good guideline right now, 11000 spirit on top of that would be another ~1200mana/sec, or 5200/sec with the example above. That still doesn't get you anywhere near to PWS spam either. Not to mention that you just dumped 11000 of throughput stats into pure mana regeneration.

    If Discs appear on healing meters with 150k+ it's because of SS and PoH, certainly not because of a single target shield.

    Havoc12 explained it quite well. Disc is not about PWS.
    With 20k spirit you can spam PWS in 5.3. With 20k spirit you are looking at over 30k mp5 regen. The mana drain of chain casting PWS is 45kmp5. So with 20k spirit you can spend 80-85% of your time chaincasting PWS. Its pointless to do that though as your HPS will suck hairy balls.

  13. #13
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    Doable with enough spirit but pointless. You'll see more reduction with SS.

  14. #14
    about 11.5k spirit + legenray meta + tf hm horridon trinket, 10man, first half of SoO normal - smart shield spam is totally doable, especially on on-move fights where stacking ss might be problematic.
    but will see on heroic fights, where real dmg kicks off

  15. #15
    I went Disc for Spoils last night, and I was in a mastery heavy build that I set up for Holy. I was able to spam PW:S a lot, with Divine Star close to on CD, as well as Penance and Holy Fire on CD. I can't give you the number of shields I used since WoL isn't parsing properly (and I'm not going to sift through the raw data), but I'm pretty sure used more shields than I had on any single fight in ToT (and I would use ~60 some fights like Heroic Durumu). Never had mana problems. Ran with 15k spirit, which was probably a bit too high. Could have dropped to 14k, maybe 13k if I was more careful with my mana. My total PW:S healing was over 15 million.

    That being said, our other Disc beat me by ~2k HPS with Atonement and Divine Aegis, but he used SS better, beating mine by about 3 million. I just used mine on CD since I didn't research the fight so I didn't know the damage patterns .

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