Tier 15 Feedback

[Deleted]

Would give it 7/10.

The problems I had was that the trash was utterly boring and disgusting.
The linearity of the raid was horrible.
Horridon should not have been the second boss in normal.
Later normals way to easy.
Heroics felt kinda like firelands, the middle heroics were way to easy causig the difference between the middle heroics and the late heroics to be way to big. Just like firelands everybody hit a wall on ragnaros. The same thing happened this tier, people hit a giant wall on Animus and Lei-Shen.The heroics before those should have been a bit harder.
Ra-Den.
Quite a few fights that I did not enjoy the mechanics from a tank PoV.

[Aboubacar]

I like more bosses, but I wish that didn't mean some of the bosses are a joke or just not worth having in the instance. Primordius best example. Could do w/o Tortos as well imo. Spoils of pandaria gave me that primoridus feeling. You've reached the middle of the instance so here's a trash boss/feel loot table thing we threw in there to increase the "boss" count.

Obviously big improvement raids seem to continue to get better. Relative to past raids 8/10 (I wouldn't give anything a 10 either). They continue to strive for "ulduar quality" raids which is a good direction imo.

[lordsphinx]

Opinions coming from a 10m raid leader, 8/13H…

Pros:
Some very unique fights, new mechanics (Durumu Light beams, Tortos kicking)
Solid difficulty. Not too difficult, not too easy (overall).
Good architecture (Horridon, Megaera, Ji’kun)
Loot was good. Each boss had multiple upgrades for everyone. Felt somewhat inflated, maybe they went too far.
Final boss not a disappointment. Others in the past were ungodly long fights (Deathwing, Sha of Fear) with nothing really changing the whole fight. Lei Shen was great.

Cons:
Too much friggin trash.
Too linear. A raid this long needs options.
Too much trash.
Difficulty curve was not appropriate. Normal mode Horridon harder than Twins, H Ji’kun, Qon, Twins easier than Council.
Too much trash
They put the entrance too close to Nalak (or vice versa). On Lightbringer, it’s a race to summon people before he respawns and someone drags him into the summoning area. Annoying…
Did I mention the trash?

Overall, 7/10 for me. This would be much higher, but I really hate artificially extending the length of an instance by adding 10 trash pulls between bosses. Add to that the fact that almost none of the trash was interesting at all, and it’s a snorefest.

[Deleted]

As this is the first raid tier I have started in week 1 and completed while current content, and my first current heroic kill it will always be great for me (12/12N 1HC) I cannot compare to what other consider great raids such as ulduar, icecrown citadel or naxxramas but this was an amazing raid for me and has spurred me on to be less casual and seek out more challenging raid content.

+ nice verity in trash, Gastropods, and laughing when people would get hit by beams on bridge/life grips.
+ Jin-rohk as an excellent entry level boss
+ durumu, animus, lei-shen
+ Christopher lee voice acting lei-shen
+ high level of personal responsibility, challenging tactics made me a better player.
+ amazing architecture
+ thunderforged loot, made some drops more exciting
+ I often do lei-shen on lfr for fun.
+ weekly quest

- best weapons being random loot, never seeing the item
- Linear
- forgotton depths bosses had little personality
- titan runestones
- horridon
- Prot paladins taking away the fun for other tanks

[Marxman]

13/13H 25m Hunter

I'd give it an 8/10 overall. Some real highlights, and a few terrible lowlights.

Good Bosses:
- Jin'Rokh, Horridon, Council, Tortos, Durumu, Iron Qon, Twins, Ra-Den (cheesed strat)

Okay-ish Bosses:
- Ji-Kun, Primordius, Lei Shen

Bad Boss:
- Magaera

"WTF WERE THEY THINKING?" boss:
- Dark Animus

Dark Animus is probably the 2nd worst boss of this expansion, right behind Amber Shaper. On the other hand, I really quite liked Horridon, Tortos, Durumu, and Iron Qon. I wasn't quite as thrilled with H Lei Shen as a lot of other 13/13 people seem to be. I felt like it was needlessly complex (with regard to transitions) and very punishing if you couldn't stack soak classes for Static Shocks. Our poor Shamans got a lot of bench time because of that boss.

[NeverStop]

13/13 H 25 man

I give ToT a 9/10.

Lei Shen was absolutely epic. -1 for Ra-den being such a let down.

[Deleted]

the issue my guild had as with every other tier was that we got 10 vanquisher tokens for every 1 of any other token.... our boomkin has 4 set for all specs.... we're on 10/13hc and myself and couple of others still only have the 2 set....

[Deleted]

13/13 HC Lock here, really enjoyed this tier, not only the bosses, trash, atmosphere of the raid but also how strong my class is atm definitely helps.
Lei-shen progression (+200 attempts) was fantastic, loved that fight.

[Nobleshield]

Just as an interesting point, to reinforce things I've stated previously there's an above-average number of heroic raiders here. Just looking at the replies, it seems that almost everyone is 13/13H or close to it; there's a handful of us scrubs who did normal, at least one person about halfway done with heroics, a person or two who didn't mention progress and everyone else is 10/13H or higher, putting them in the to percentile of raiding guilds.

Just an interesting observation since a lot of the ongoing "Why Flex?" and the previous "Gap between LFR/Normal" threads revolve around perceptions/viewpoints that of wouldn't even be noticed when you're clearing the hardest content at a reasonable pace.

[Kalmah]

I don't understand the hate for Dark Animus. I found it amazing, especially on heroic. It's very engaging for everyone, high personal responsability. It's also a rather short and intense fight.

Progression wise, I guess it sucks to wipe 30 seconds into the fight, over and over again.

[Hummbinger]

As I only starting raiding seriously this January (couldn't since 2007 due to school) and ToT was my first tier to step into and start from the beginning, I'd probably give it an 8/10. Often there was a lot going on in fights, but sometimes it was too much/boring, what I mean was Lei Shen heroic phase 3 was amazing. Lots of stuff going on, but you can control it and smart play means everything goes where you want it to. Megaera, on the other hand, just felt like there was way too much stuff being thrown out and no real way to control it, it wasn't fun imo.

Pros:
-Lei Shen Heroic
-introduction of more personal responsibility
-Durumu
-good amount of bosses
-overall nice difficulty
-some interesting new mechanics

Cons:
-bad difficulty spread
-linear
-pink dinos/Meg heroic
-turtle kicking in Tortos (was kind of annoying that it was a wipe if one person messed up, would have rather seen an extra stomp go out or something devastating but ultimately recoverable)
-insane ilvl inflation (first Ra-Den kill we went into P2 for the first time, with 3 DPS down and killed him, just cause we had so much gear)
-RPPM
-didn't feel like I was actually fighting Lei Shen and his army till Iron Qon

[Deleted]

I felt the tier to be very good (8/10 material, mogu/trolls it's what make it drop, lots of variety on bosses though). Council fights, add fights, tunnel vision DPS bosses, new non annoying mechanics on several bosses, and flying. Every tier should have a boss with puntual flying involved. One Hydra boss. Need more. The thrash was ok after knowing how to clear it, I'm ok with this level of thrash. You can end clearing the whole thing on 3h30, and the quantity of thrash makes feel the raid better and bigger. It's an ok price to pay for the annoyance of first week.

Cons:
There were trolls.
Voice acting was not memorable for me, at least. Not the voice actors fault, it's just that the humanoid bosses were not... epic. Mogu doesn't cut it for me. Trolls are borderline comic relief as a race. Ra-den was cool though.
Horrid tank balance. Don't know how Blizzard let that utterly fail let it be for 7 months. Add rppm on that for a class with 0 value for haste.

[Deleted]

From a 13/13 HC perspective: about 9/10.

Lei Shen HC is an amazing fight, almost making it 9/10 alone. I enjoyed pretty much all the fights except for Tortos HC, being the slowing bitch made it really frustrating watching people have a blast doing 300-400k on bats. Durumu was also amazing.

Linearity wasn't so great, but I did enjoy the visuals. Hated RPPM though, especialy as a UVLS user.

Overall a great tier though, raided it for 25 weeks, watched countless streams and still not hating it.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I raided once to get the feat of strength.
I liked it, but obviously, cannot give a proper vote.

[Simplexity]

Overall 8.5/10. This was my favorite tier aside from Ulduar.

Fight mechanics: we saw a lot of unique mechanics this tier (Animus, Durumu, Ji'kun, Primo, LS, Twins drawing). I liked seeing those and the fights felt unique and fun because of it. I felt T14 perhaps had better difficulty tuning, but the fights weren't as engaging. Also, the heroic mechanics didn't really feel challenging compared to normal, things were just tuned for higher DPS/HPS. I guess that's how it always is though, but I would have liked things to change more mechanically like Spirit Kings/Vizier/Protectors.

Difficulty: Difficulty for normals was obviously a problem. Bosses like Horridon and Twins felt out of place, and linearity didn't help. Heroic difficulty felt pretty good, but maybe slightly easy before Animus/Lei Shen. Animus/Lei Shen felt really good as far as difficulty.

Aesthetics: Didn't like it. Visually, nothing really stood out. The boss models were ok, but the rooms (aside from Megaera/Tortos/Ji'kun) felt bland. It didn't have that THUNDER feeling where Firelands/Molten Core felt hot and ICC felt frozen. The voice acting/writing was disappointing.

Trash: This may have been the best and most interesting trash created since Vanilla, but there was a bit too much. Wasn't too bad, especially in the second half, but I'd say pretty much every trash clear up to Durumu could do with 25% less trash.

Loot: Even being a 10m raider, I liked the idea of Thunderforged. There should be some benefits to the organizational nightmares of 25m. I felt the loot tables were too bit though, and the bosses could have done without the shared loot/random item tables. Other than that it was fine.

[Squirl]

9/10. Would raid again.

And again and again and again and again...

[Razecog]

9.5/10

Would have been a 10/10 but Tortos can go fuck himself.

[Einsz]

Personally I didn't enjoy this tier that much:
- a lot of gimmick fights
- RPPM
- thunderforged crap
- my class (hunter) being complete garbage during progress
- personally I don't like troll themed dungeons/zones/raids
- boss loot tables containing 20 items, some items never ever dropped for from tier bosses that drop 3 items + 3 tier
Some of the bosses were fun though


4/10 from 13/13 25 hc raider

[Haywire5714]

I don't understand the hate for Dark Animus. I found it amazing, especially on heroic. It's very engaging for everyone, high personal responsability. It's also a rather short and intense fight.

Progression wise, I guess it sucks to wipe 30 seconds into the fight, over and over again.

This. Healing this fight on heroic is really fun, I like the personal responsibility aspect even if it is extremely unforgiving. From a healer PoV I give this raid a 10/10; definitely the best raid I have ever progressed through (currently 11/13H). I can't think of a single fight that I don't like, and I don't really care about the linearity or the aesthetics so I can't really complain about anything. Blizzard did a great job and I hope they will use ToT as a benchmark for the future.

[Elios]

8/10
I would give a 10/10 but some bosses had too much RNG for me.

Tortus with "Ops i'm 0.5 seconds late" wipe with 0.5% is painfull.
Primordius getting 3 AoE Skills the whole fight in heroic is extremely annoying.
Concil as third boss with Qon and Twins being 11º and 12º?? wtf?

And Thunderforged... Seeing a guild that killed 6/13 having more ilv just because that they Raid 25 and you 10 man is fucking horrible....