Illidans redemption/revival wasnt the cot dungeon

[Sesto]

Good.

Illidan's death was utter shit. Illidan's entire backstory is centered around Malfurion, Tyrande, the Legion, and his thirst for power. In Burning Crusade, he starts attacking Shattrath and we are given no reason why. There was no reveal that 'oh, he was doing it to become more powerful so he can destroy the legion!" or anything. He just went 'insane', despite the fact that there also is no real proof that he went insane other than Blizzard's word. They just threw him in there because he was a big name. The storytelling was horrible.

To top it all off, Illidan is killed by Maiev and Akama. Are you kidding me? His jailer and a dude no one even cares about. Why was Malfurion (i know Furion was in the nightmare) or Tyrande not there ? That would have tied up all loose ends in his story. But Blizzard butchered him.

[Immitis]

That's a... skewed version of it.



Note that "protagonist" does not equal "hero". A protagonist is a main character, a "hero" is, well, noble and virtuous and all that. An "anti-hero" is a protagonist that, in another story, could be a villain, such as Michael Corleone or Sonny Wortzik. They're usually only the protagonist because somebody else in the story is worse than they are. Which should tell you a lot about Illidan's character, given that he served as an antagonist to Arthas.

Also, Illidan didn't care about "getting the job" done, he cared about what was in it for him. That's why he flip-flopped between sides so much.



If Illidan was tasked with guarding Ashenvale, he'd stick around until he got wind of some magical item or other that could increase his power, and then he would fuck right off, rationalizing it all the while.



Actually, if they brought him back to give him a shot at redemption and he failed, it might get the point across to his fanboys. Probably not, though. But it would also be a more interesting story, and also a more believable one, given his character.

keep beatin that strawman

[Joey Ray III]

new well of eternity. holy shit. all those years i wondered what the hell was that jazz with them lakes in zangamarsh. i didn't even know vashj had any connection with illidan, lore wise. don't really care much for that part of the lore but good to know anyways ;p

as for illi, i'd rather they didn't bring him back. bringing back dead people is hardly ever good for the story and blizzard resurrected way too many characters already tbh.

[Immitis]

new well of eternity. holy shit. all those years i wondered what the hell was that jazz with them lakes in zangamarsh. i didn't even know vashj had any connection with illidan, lore wise. don't really care much for that part of the lore but good to know anyways ;p

as for illi, i'd rather they didn't bring him back. bringing back dead people is hardly ever good for the story and blizzard resurrected way too many characters already tbh.

thats not what they were doing in zangarmarsh. thats a fan theory.

even if that was what they planned to do they didnt need to put it in a hole so that still wouldnt explain it since all the water in zangarmarsh was connected before they started draining it they couldve made a well right away by dumping the vial into the water.

[Deleted]

Good.

Didn't like how they handled his character back in TBC.

[Drilnos]

thats not what they were doing in zangarmarsh. thats a fan theory.

even if that was what they planned to do they didnt need to put it in a hole so that still wouldnt explain it since all the water in zangarmarsh was connected before they started draining it they couldve made a well right away by dumping the vial into the water.

The original well, the new one in Hyjal and the Sunwell don't/didn't have a whole lot of water in them compared to Zangarmarsh. It's possible dumping a vial out in there would have diluted it.

In any case I always assumed the naga were draining the lake for the reason Vashj said they were draining it - water is required for life, control the water and you control everything that needs it to live. Illidan and his cohorts were ruling Outland with an iron fist. Making every living thing reliant on them for survival is in perfect keeping with that.

[Verain]

We need someone to train the demon hunter PCs, Illidan will be that elf!

[Svaryag]

I believe that Rexxar shall be the new Warchief.

[The Stormbringer]

Huzzah! Illidan ftw! :3

Let's hope there's a chance for a Demon Hunter Hero class...

[Deleted]

What's the deal with Illidan anyway? Why do people want him back? Oh, is it because he never got a satisfying story and that he was a character in the grey zone who was suddenly turned into a villain because of game mechanics, to give TBC a well-known end boss?

Where have I heard that before? Oh right, he's basically the precursor of Garrosh.
Maybe if Garrosh does indeed die then 5 years from now Blizzard will resurrect him as a good guy as well. If there is support for the idea, it will happen. Just like what's happening with Illidan.

For the record, I don't have any problem with Illidan coming back. I just think some people are hypocrits for wanting Illidan back and wanting Garrosh to die, their storylines are quite similar. But bring on the Demon Hunter class along with Illidan, yeah!

[wych]

What's the deal with Illidan anyway? Why do people want him back? Oh, is it because he never got a satisfying story and that he was a character in the grey zone who was suddenly turned into a villain because of game mechanics, to give TBC a well-known end boss?

Where have I heard that before? Oh right, he's basically the precursor of Garrosh.
Maybe if Garrosh does indeed die then 5 years from now Blizzard will resurrect him as a good guy as well. If there is support for the idea, it will happen. Just like what's happening with Illidan.

For the record, I don't have any problem with Illidan coming back. I just think some people are hypocrits for wanting Illidan back and wanting Garrosh to die, their storylines are quite similar. But bring on the Demon Hunter class along with Illidan, yeah!

disagree, apart from 1 cut scene in StoneTalon Garrosh has always been an ignorant moron who believes orcs are better than everybody else and wants to crush everybody under their boots

[Drilnos]

What's the deal with Illidan anyway? Why do people want him back? Oh, is it because he never got a satisfying story and that he was a character in the grey zone who was suddenly turned into a villain because of game mechanics, to give TBC a well-known end boss?

Where have I heard that before? Oh right, he's basically the precursor of Garrosh.
Maybe if Garrosh does indeed die then 5 years from now Blizzard will resurrect him as a good guy as well. If there is support for the idea, it will happen. Just like what's happening with Illidan.

For the record, I don't have any problem with Illidan coming back. I just think some people are hypocrits for wanting Illidan back and wanting Garrosh to die, their storylines are quite similar. But bring on the Demon Hunter class along with Illidan, yeah!

Whoa nellie, I think somebody just shoved his hand in a hornet's nest.

[ro9ue]

metzen confirmed on twitter that he wasnt referring to illidan showing up in cot and that he believes a spark of illidan is out there somewhere.

so now when people speculate about it you cant say "what if he was talking about the dungeon"

glad thats been cleared up.

I have a mental erection.

[Randypan]

thats for nathrezim. normal demons can die as long as they are fully summoned onto the plane of existence that their minds are on.

most demons use avatars and if you kill an avatar the mind just goes back to its real body and can be summoned again. avatars are quicker and easier and take alot less magic to summon in than a real demons body but they are much weaker.

thats why archimonde is dead for good because he was summoned fully into azeroth.

nathrezim are different though, they can only die on their home world nomatter what. even if they are fully summoned they will still be able to regenerate unless killed on their home planet.

they could still use this excuse for illidan though since he looks alot like a nathrezim, they could say he became a pseudo nathrezim when he transformed and the rules now apply to him.

Awesome, god damn i love wow lore lol. Thanks for what i think is awesome reply, i can instantly tell you have as much love for the richness of wow lore as i do

[Deleted]

i think illidan would be a bit apprehensive about working with the brother who left him in the dirt and exiled him.

As I recall it, Illidan parted on somewhat good terms with Malfurion and Tyrande. He wasn't allowed to stay on Azeroth, sure, but he didn't seem to mind leaving either after all he had done to "protect" the world. I can easily see both Malfurion and Tyrande forgiving Illidan for past sins, and welcoming him back with open arms. If they were to do that, Illidan shouldn't be holding any grudges either.

[Jessicka]

I don't think that's all demons, I think there was something about it only being the Nathrezim. Illidan was also only half-demon. Sargeras never really touched Illidan either, it was the Skull of Gul'dan that twisted him.

As I said earlier, as players we bring back our same minions every time they're killed; and it was deemed necessary for Jubeka to keep Kanrethad banished forever, rather than kill him for these reasons.

[Immitis]

What's the deal with Illidan anyway? Why do people want him back? Oh, is it because he never got a satisfying story and that he was a character in the grey zone who was suddenly turned into a villain because of game mechanics, to give TBC a well-known end boss?

Where have I heard that before? Oh right, he's basically the precursor of Garrosh.
Maybe if Garrosh does indeed die then 5 years from now Blizzard will resurrect him as a good guy as well. If there is support for the idea, it will happen. Just like what's happening with Illidan.

For the record, I don't have any problem with Illidan coming back. I just think some people are hypocrits for wanting Illidan back and wanting Garrosh to die, their storylines are quite similar. But bring on the Demon Hunter class along with Illidan, yeah!

theres a difference here. even if you disagree with how garrosh became a villain the ground work was already there even when he was being all emo in nagrand he still said things like "only greatmother geyah keeps my bloodlust in check" in wrath instead of trying to find a solution he wanted to "just crush the alliance and take the port for ourselves" before saurfang threatened to kill him.

in cata as soon as he became warchief he allowed the goblins to pollute their water supply as long as they gave the horde weaponry, he still didnt view goblins themselves as meaningful so he relegated trolls and goblins to the slums, he viewed the undead as wretches useful as nothing but flesh shields to be thrown on the front lines, blood elves were only tolerated so long as their magic was helpful

garrosh only ever viewed tauren and orcs as strong enough to truly be horde, and then baine grew more and more reluctant to do anything with garrosh as he saw garroshes true colours and then even tauren were considered trecherous cowards who dont use their own strength.

garrosh was always this way, the main reason people like him is "because he beat up alliance" look at all the threads about garrosh they all revolve around either stonetalon which is the exception and according to ghostcrawler and kosak he was just lying so he couldnt be held accountable and wouldnt cause dissent from the members of the horde who would disagree or its based around the fact that he beat up alliance.

and most importantly, we saw garrosh go further and further into darkness over 4 expansions it was a slow process that we actually saw.

illidan went from being an anti hero in warcraft 3 to MUAHAHAHAHA YOU ARE NOT PREPARED SO THAT IS WHY I WILL NEVER SHOW UP. seriously we saw illidan twice in person, once was to tell the fel orcs that they are idiots, one is to check up on akama, and then technically a third time where he talks through a crystal.

if illidan and kael'thas decent into insanity was shown slowly overtime in game then maybe i would be able to accept it, i wouldnt like it but i would accept it.

a complete 180 and then never really showing up or getting any lore or character development until we kill them is not what illidan deserved.

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and not only that but another reason people want illidan back is that wow is SEVERELY lacking in anti heroes.

the only major anti hero we have is wrathion. which is why so many people love his character, we need more of that and its hard to just poof a character into existence.

illidan being the ultimate anti hero of warcraft and him having a plausible excuse to be brought back (multiple actually since weve seen demon hunters be revived before, we know nathrezim can regenerate, he had many magical artifacts that coudlve been failsafes, theres lots of ways to bring him back) makes him the one people want the most

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TLDR: garrosh was always intended to be a villain since he was introduced. blizzard has admitted that they never really did illidan right and that alot of the things they did in bc were mistakes because it was their first expansion and they didnt really know what they were doing or how it would turn out. blizzard views things in a much more long term view now then they did at the start of bc.

[The Stormbringer]

Immitis, keep in mind that the army he was building in Outland was an army to protect himself against the Legion. He HATED the Burning Legion, and most of the demons he's allied with are either enslaved or have been won over by how strong he is or something else, most likely. Sure, he was wrecking some stuff and causing some problems, but most of the bad things that happened in Outland can be traced to Kael'thas and his secret master (Kil'jaeden).

And I suppose Lady Vashj was screwing things up in Nagrand, but that was really only one zone.

[Skayth]

As I said earlier, as players we bring back our same minions every time they're killed; and it was deemed necessary for Jubeka to keep Kanrethad banished forever, rather than kill him for these reasons.

not to mention, a questline in outland states that all demons must be killed in the twisting nether to kill them, with a few exceptions archimonde and mannoroth apparently are one

[Jokubas]

I'm really glad to have this confirmation, but it bothers me that people needed it in the first place. Time traveling to a point before a character needed redemption, does not equal a redemption story.

And I just want to say, I'm not a fan of a lot of Blizzard's retcons, but that's actually exactly why I want them to retcon the nature of his death. The character we opposed and killed in Burning Crusade wasn't Illidan. It was a retconned card carrying villain among a slew of other extremely controversial retcons. I have no problem with them using a second retcon if it means putting things back on track.

As I recall it, Illidan parted on somewhat good terms with Malfurion and Tyrande. He wasn't allowed to stay on Azeroth, sure, but he didn't seem to mind leaving either after all he had done to "protect" the world. I can easily see both Malfurion and Tyrande forgiving Illidan for past sins, and welcoming him back with open arms. If they were to do that, Illidan shouldn't be holding any grudges either.

Considering they have since forgiven the highborne (the justification for night elf magi in Cataclysm, for those who don't know), I think they could forgive Illidan. And Illidan always seemed willing to work with them no matter how they treated him (at least until the Burning Crusade character derailment that's led to me wanting a return/redemption in the first place).