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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i think illidan would be a bit apprehensive about working with the brother who left him in the dirt and exiled him.
    As I recall it, Illidan parted on somewhat good terms with Malfurion and Tyrande. He wasn't allowed to stay on Azeroth, sure, but he didn't seem to mind leaving either after all he had done to "protect" the world. I can easily see both Malfurion and Tyrande forgiving Illidan for past sins, and welcoming him back with open arms. If they were to do that, Illidan shouldn't be holding any grudges either.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    I don't think that's all demons, I think there was something about it only being the Nathrezim. Illidan was also only half-demon. Sargeras never really touched Illidan either, it was the Skull of Gul'dan that twisted him.
    As I said earlier, as players we bring back our same minions every time they're killed; and it was deemed necessary for Jubeka to keep Kanrethad banished forever, rather than kill him for these reasons.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    What's the deal with Illidan anyway? Why do people want him back? Oh, is it because he never got a satisfying story and that he was a character in the grey zone who was suddenly turned into a villain because of game mechanics, to give TBC a well-known end boss?

    Where have I heard that before? Oh right, he's basically the precursor of Garrosh.
    Maybe if Garrosh does indeed die then 5 years from now Blizzard will resurrect him as a good guy as well. If there is support for the idea, it will happen. Just like what's happening with Illidan.

    For the record, I don't have any problem with Illidan coming back. I just think some people are hypocrits for wanting Illidan back and wanting Garrosh to die, their storylines are quite similar. But bring on the Demon Hunter class along with Illidan, yeah!
    theres a difference here. even if you disagree with how garrosh became a villain the ground work was already there even when he was being all emo in nagrand he still said things like "only greatmother geyah keeps my bloodlust in check" in wrath instead of trying to find a solution he wanted to "just crush the alliance and take the port for ourselves" before saurfang threatened to kill him.

    in cata as soon as he became warchief he allowed the goblins to pollute their water supply as long as they gave the horde weaponry, he still didnt view goblins themselves as meaningful so he relegated trolls and goblins to the slums, he viewed the undead as wretches useful as nothing but flesh shields to be thrown on the front lines, blood elves were only tolerated so long as their magic was helpful

    garrosh only ever viewed tauren and orcs as strong enough to truly be horde, and then baine grew more and more reluctant to do anything with garrosh as he saw garroshes true colours and then even tauren were considered trecherous cowards who dont use their own strength.

    garrosh was always this way, the main reason people like him is "because he beat up alliance" look at all the threads about garrosh they all revolve around either stonetalon which is the exception and according to ghostcrawler and kosak he was just lying so he couldnt be held accountable and wouldnt cause dissent from the members of the horde who would disagree or its based around the fact that he beat up alliance.

    and most importantly, we saw garrosh go further and further into darkness over 4 expansions it was a slow process that we actually saw.

    illidan went from being an anti hero in warcraft 3 to MUAHAHAHAHA YOU ARE NOT PREPARED SO THAT IS WHY I WILL NEVER SHOW UP. seriously we saw illidan twice in person, once was to tell the fel orcs that they are idiots, one is to check up on akama, and then technically a third time where he talks through a crystal.

    if illidan and kael'thas decent into insanity was shown slowly overtime in game then maybe i would be able to accept it, i wouldnt like it but i would accept it.

    a complete 180 and then never really showing up or getting any lore or character development until we kill them is not what illidan deserved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    and not only that but another reason people want illidan back is that wow is SEVERELY lacking in anti heroes.

    the only major anti hero we have is wrathion. which is why so many people love his character, we need more of that and its hard to just poof a character into existence.

    illidan being the ultimate anti hero of warcraft and him having a plausible excuse to be brought back (multiple actually since weve seen demon hunters be revived before, we know nathrezim can regenerate, he had many magical artifacts that coudlve been failsafes, theres lots of ways to bring him back) makes him the one people want the most

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    TLDR: garrosh was always intended to be a villain since he was introduced. blizzard has admitted that they never really did illidan right and that alot of the things they did in bc were mistakes because it was their first expansion and they didnt really know what they were doing or how it would turn out. blizzard views things in a much more long term view now then they did at the start of bc.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  4. #144
    Immitis, keep in mind that the army he was building in Outland was an army to protect himself against the Legion. He HATED the Burning Legion, and most of the demons he's allied with are either enslaved or have been won over by how strong he is or something else, most likely. Sure, he was wrecking some stuff and causing some problems, but most of the bad things that happened in Outland can be traced to Kael'thas and his secret master (Kil'jaeden).

    And I suppose Lady Vashj was screwing things up in Nagrand, but that was really only one zone.

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  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    As I said earlier, as players we bring back our same minions every time they're killed; and it was deemed necessary for Jubeka to keep Kanrethad banished forever, rather than kill him for these reasons.
    not to mention, a questline in outland states that all demons must be killed in the twisting nether to kill them, with a few exceptions archimonde and mannoroth apparently are one

  6. #146
    I'm really glad to have this confirmation, but it bothers me that people needed it in the first place. Time traveling to a point before a character needed redemption, does not equal a redemption story.

    And I just want to say, I'm not a fan of a lot of Blizzard's retcons, but that's actually exactly why I want them to retcon the nature of his death. The character we opposed and killed in Burning Crusade wasn't Illidan. It was a retconned card carrying villain among a slew of other extremely controversial retcons. I have no problem with them using a second retcon if it means putting things back on track.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    As I recall it, Illidan parted on somewhat good terms with Malfurion and Tyrande. He wasn't allowed to stay on Azeroth, sure, but he didn't seem to mind leaving either after all he had done to "protect" the world. I can easily see both Malfurion and Tyrande forgiving Illidan for past sins, and welcoming him back with open arms. If they were to do that, Illidan shouldn't be holding any grudges either.
    Considering they have since forgiven the highborne (the justification for night elf magi in Cataclysm, for those who don't know), I think they could forgive Illidan. And Illidan always seemed willing to work with them no matter how they treated him (at least until the Burning Crusade character derailment that's led to me wanting a return/redemption in the first place).

  7. #147
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    Gameplay based mechanics, such as any spell/ability/feature of the player character has no effect on the storytelling in the game. Resurrection is largely impossible e outside of player-based mechanics for example.
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Gold and the 'need' for it in-game is easily one of the most overblown mindsets in this community.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    not to mention, a questline in outland states that all demons must be killed in the twisting nether to kill them, with a few exceptions archimonde and mannoroth apparently are one
    I thought Archimonde was a corrupted eredar, not a demon. Don't know if he became a demon or not.

    Pit lords do seem to be the exception until we see one rezzed.

    I also agree with everything Immitis said.

    What if Illidan was actually warning us about the pending Kil'jaeden invasion with his "you are not prepared" remark, instead of you are not prepared to face me?

    Still, his story was butchered.

  9. #149
    eredars are dreanei corrupted/transformed by legion's fel energy.
    Archi is an eredar and he is a friend of Velen.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    not to mention, a questline in outland states that all demons must be killed in the twisting nether to kill them, with a few exceptions archimonde and mannoroth apparently are one
    I think in Archimonde's case it was down to the sheer amount of power used to kill him, and in Mannoroth's the breaking of the blood pact was instrumental. Both deaths were pretty exceptional circumstances.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    not to mention, a questline in outland states that all demons must be killed in the twisting nether to kill them, with a few exceptions archimonde and mannoroth apparently are one
    that questline is talking about their avatars.

    kill a demons avatar the soul goes back to its original body and can be summoned again. in that quest you are binding their souls to stones so that they cant be resummoned because thats the only way to prevent a demon from coming back if you can take out all the summoners or cant manage to get to its real body.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also eredar are demons. alot of demons started out as mortal races or titanic constructs
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    if illidan and kael'thas decent into insanity was shown slowly overtime in game then maybe i would be able to accept it, i wouldnt like it but i would accept it.
    There's no excuse for Kael'thas, but I've convinced myself that Illidan lost control to the spirit of Gul'dan when he ate the skulls magic. It makes the story weird since you go from Illidan versus Arthas to Gul'dan versus Ner'zhul in WC3.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    metzen confirmed on twitter that he wasnt referring to illidan showing up in cot and that he believes a spark of illidan is out there somewhere.

    so now when people speculate about it you cant say "what if he was talking about the dungeon"

    glad thats been cleared up.
    I'm sorry if this is a super noob thing to say because I don't have a twitter. I've tried googling around and trying to find this tweet that confirms it, and I can't find it. I looked through every page in the thread to see if someone posted it and they didn't. How would I got about finding the tweet?

  14. #154
    I don't think this forum will let you embed tweets.

    This is his twitter.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMetzen

    This is the body of the question.

    "Q. At Blizzcon 2011 when you replied about the Illidan possibility of revival. Did you refer to CoT illidan?"
    and his response

    "No. I think there's a spark of him out there somewhere... Muahaha..."

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    that questline is talking about their avatars.

    kill a demons avatar the soul goes back to its original body and can be summoned again. in that quest you are binding their souls to stones so that they cant be resummoned because thats the only way to prevent a demon from coming back if you can take out all the summoners or cant manage to get to its real body.
    the quest says nothing about avatars. here's what the quest says:

    "The problem with demons is that, once killed, they come right back in new bodies!"

    http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Banish_the_Demons

    also: you kill gan'arg and shivarra demons for that quest. the gan'arg don't seem likely to have avatars, considering their low standing in the legion. they are the tiny and weak assistants of the big and strong mo'arg engineers.

    EDIT: also, you don't bind them in stones. you send them back to "whence they came" with banishing portals.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    the quest says nothing about avatars. here's what the quest says:

    "The problem with demons is that, once killed, they come right back in new bodies!"

    http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Banish_the_Demons

    also: you kill gan'arg and shivarra demons for that quest. the gan'arg don't seem likely to have avatars, considering their low standing in the legion. they are the tiny and weak assistants of the big and strong mo'arg engineers.

    EDIT: also, you don't bind them in stones. you send them back to "whence they came" with banishing portals.
    and when asked about that and why archimonde and other demons died for real in the ask cdev they explained that those demons were using avatars and thats what most demons use.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    Why can't people stay dead just for once in this game?
    Technically the player characters were killed by the Lich King when they fought him near the Frozen Throne. Might want to reconsider.

    That and we already saw how easy to revive a demon hunter is, in Blasted Lands.

    Illidan was an awesome character that went lolinsane because that's the -ONLY WAY- Blizzard knows to create villains.

  18. #158
    I have heard that many demons can resurrect , as Illidan is a demon, he might aswell do the same

  19. #159
    Mortal races do not become demons. The Eredar are the same as Draenei except they are imbued with power from Sargeras.

    The demon races were always what they are. Sargeras himself was tainted by Naztherim. Also Naztherim have been the real thematic resurrection demons out of all of them.

    Also Illidan is not a demon he imbued himself with their power. He is neither night elf nor demon.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by purebalance View Post
    Mortal races do not become demons. The Eredar are the same as Draenei except they are imbued with power from Sargeras.

    The demon races were always what they are. Sargeras himself was tainted by Naztherim. Also Naztherim have been the real thematic resurrection demons out of all of them.

    Also Illidan is not a demon he imbued himself with their power. He is neither night elf nor demon.
    Just not true, any of it. Most demon races were actually enslaved by the Legion and became demons. Satyr are Demons who were once Night Elves. Doomguard were guardians of Magic, who once enslaved became demons and obssessed with the power of sacrificial magics. Eredar are demons, they became Wrathguard. Kanrethad too ultimately attained a permanent demonic form.

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