1. #1

    Ra-den - the way it was supposed to be done

    Hi,

    Is there any video of a guild doing Ra-den the way it was supposed to be done? Im always wondering about its real difficulty and the correct strategy.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    That would probably be front-page worthy, and hasn't appeared yet so i'll assume no-

  3. #3
    Interested in this as well.
    The strategy being Red Vita > Blue Vita > Red Vita? Or with very strong DPS, just Blue Vita > Red Vita and push to P2 before the 7th Materials of Creation.

    I'd love to see a video of it done. We'd try but we've always died within 15seconds of a Blue phase from lack of preparation and tbh, a lack of care to do it ourselves...

  4. #4
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyndy View Post
    Hi,

    Is there any video of a guild doing Ra-den the way it was supposed to be done? Im always wondering about its real difficulty and the correct strategy.

    Thanks!
    You probably won't see much of anything until the next patch hits. No one bothered to make it more difficult on themselves (or taken the time to report doing so, at least)

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  5. #5
    Murderous strike requires a constant CD for 10 seconds - making it a pain in the ass in addition to every 2 seconds dealing tanks max health in damage.

    Ruin Bolt also requires a cooldown of some sort, flat 1 mil damage - making tank damage massive compared to Vita phase

    Ruin is constant raid damage. This affects 25's more than 10's because 25's can afford to take the add out of the raid. Never the less, adds a massive amount of healing required when you combine it with..

    Unstable anima: 2.5mil split to all in an area then applies a dot that splits 250k/s - so you would need the minimum amt of people to soak so you have less damage being split when the DoT is applied

    In addition to this, there is a lot of moving to kill the add (could be trivialized by gear and ranged dps eventually) and moving for unstable anima in addition to massive amounts of damage (very controlled damage, though) is just painful. So yea.. no, not likely to find a video. Hell, I'm suicidal enough to want to try and kill horridon without dragging him to another door (ignore adds and tunnel) - but I'm not suicidal enough to try this.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Winkle's Avatar
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    What i don't understand is how long Blizzard envisioned the boss being up if the correct strategy was/had to be used. The red phases are incredibly unforgiving.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    What i don't understand is how long Blizzard envisioned the boss being up if the correct strategy was/had to be used. The red phases are incredibly unforgiving.
    Probably around 200 pulls for world first guilds, so a couple months since H: Lei Shen kill

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Winkle View Post
    What i don't understand is how long Blizzard envisioned the boss being up if the correct strategy was/had to be used. The red phases are incredibly unforgiving.
    It would likely have been tuned. Bosses not PTR-tested by the community are often too difficult until live testing is done by top end raiding guilds. They see the practical numbers, nerf them if considered too high and then the boss dies. In this case it wasn't needed because guilds found an easy strategy.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    Murderous strike requires a constant CD for 10 seconds - making it a pain in the ass in addition to every 2 seconds dealing tanks max health in damage.
    Actually, no cooldowns work for Murderous strike (well, guardian spirit does). We tried stuff like normal DR cds - shieldwall, barkskin, etc. No use. Even more esoteric ones like diffuse magic or zen med didn't work. Absorbs did work, but considering our hp was doubled it's hard to have a relevant absorb every 2 seconds. It snapshots your hp at the time of the strike and you take that much damage every other second, five times in a row. Generally, the best solution we found for it was [Soulstone].

    Ruin Bolt also requires a cooldown of some sort, flat 1 mil damage - making tank damage massive compared to Vita phase
    Never noticed it tbh.

    Ruin is constant raid damage. This affects 25's more than 10's because 25's can afford to take the add out of the raid. Never the less, adds a massive amount of healing required when you combine it with..

    Unstable anima: 2.5mil split to all in an area then applies a dot that splits 250k/s - so you would need the minimum amt of people to soak so you have less damage being split when the DoT is applied
    Yeah, this was the biggest deal. The few times we successfully completed an anima phase, healers were all like "holy shit I'm oom after 40 seconds".

    In addition to this, there is a lot of moving to kill the add (could be trivialized by gear and ranged dps eventually) and moving for unstable anima in addition to massive amounts of damage (very controlled damage, though) is just painful. So yea.. no, not likely to find a video. Hell, I'm suicidal enough to want to try and kill horridon without dragging him to another door (ignore adds and tunnel) - but I'm not suicidal enough to try this.
    No moving for the add really - it does a ridiculous amount of damage though (melees for nature damage), and is rooted. So bring lots of multidotters.

    My experiences on the anima phase were with around ilvl 525 gear on the entire raid, so with 7 healers in 550 gear I'm halfway confident that it can be done, but it'll be on a difficulty level at least as high as SoO heroic bosses and there's no real incentive to doing it correctly ... along with having to save all 3 battle rezzes for tanks whenever they get murderous struck.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2013-09-05 at 05:56 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    Actually, no cooldowns work for Murderous strike (well, guardian spirit does). We tried stuff like normal DR cds - shieldwall, barkskin, etc. No use. Even more esoteric ones like diffuse magic or zen med didn't work. Absorbs did work, but considering our hp was doubled it's hard to have a relevant absorb every 2 seconds. It snapshots your hp at the time of the strike and you take that much damage every other second, five times in a row. Generally, the best solution we found for it was [Soulstone].
    Curious if you tried Avert Harm to make the damage staggerable?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Curious if you tried Avert Harm to make the damage staggerable?
    Avert harm kills you in two seconds in anima phase regardless of whether or not you have murderous strike up

    The average player is taking about 150k dps, redirecting even 20 players worth of that at 20% efficiency is about 600k dps towards yourself, on top of incoming melee damage. So no, it was never really even a consideration, heh.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Curious if you tried Avert Harm to make the damage staggerable?
    Avert Harm doesn't work on damage taken by the monk himself. (unless you're talking about the aoe, which would probably oneshot the tank)
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  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    From what I understand of Murderous strike, it deals damage equal to the amount of the tanks health when he is hit. How much damage does it actually do? I would think the proper strat for that would be to have the tank as low as he could be without being in range of dieing (Or, having a tank sit at low health, and have him taunt for only the strikes?)
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    From what I understand of Murderous strike, it deals damage equal to the amount of the tanks health when he is hit. How much damage does it actually do? I would think the proper strat for that would be to have the tank as low as he could be without being in range of dieing (Or, having a tank sit at low health, and have him taunt for only the strikes?)
    When Ra-den hits 100 energy, he'll queue up Murderous Strike. May happen instantly, may happen 2-3 seconds later (just like Fatal Strike.)

    At the instant of the cast, he snapshots his current target's hp, then applies an un-cooldownable dot to the tank equal to that snapshotted value.

    So yeah, we tried the "get the tank as low as possible" strat. It ... doesn't really work. With the utterly massive amounts of damage he is doing during the entirety of the ruin phase - I don't think you guys have an appreciation for it, but quite literally we're talking about the damage that the imaginary 12th rampage on Megaera would be doing - there is so much smart healing flying around that tanks cannot be left low even if they tried. Smart heals will go and seek the tank out regardless. I would purposely take damage by standing in the blood pools the anima add makes, that tick for like 300k/sec, and even then I could not remain low consistently. I'd either die from tick + dot damage, or I'd get healed to full almost instantly and stay there.

    Of the 30+ murderous strikes that happened on our learning pulls, our tanks survived exactly 2 of them. One of them I blindly lucked out and only had 500k hp or so when he struck, the other time I had almost a million hp, and we told every healer to dump heals on the tank only, and after quite a bit of yo-yo'ing and proccing 2 guardian spirits ... I lived, but half the raid died in the process due to lack of heals.

    It's just a terribly stupid mechanic.
    Last edited by kaiadam; 2013-09-05 at 09:25 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by boomkinhero View Post
    Ruin Bolt also requires a cooldown of some sort, flat 1 mil damage - making tank damage massive compared to Vita phase

    Ruin is constant raid damage. This affects 25's more than 10's because 25's can afford to take the add out of the raid. Never the less, adds a massive amount of healing required when you combine it with..
    ruin bolt is only cast in the last phase if no one is in melee range of the boss
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Avert Harm doesn't work on damage taken by the monk himself. (unless you're talking about the aoe, which would probably oneshot the tank)
    Actually think it does. Tried it in a duel with warlock friend and with avert harm up I was staggering his chaos bolt.

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  17. #17
    We never got around to trying this, but mathed it out to be possible: Paladin tank takes Murderous Strike to the face at 100% HP and simply outheals it through SS, SoI and using the Prot 4P to fuel WoGs to counter every tick.
    Last edited by Vereesa; 2013-09-06 at 04:13 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    From what I understand of Murderous strike, it deals damage equal to the amount of the tanks health when he is hit. How much damage does it actually do? I would think the proper strat for that would be to have the tank as low as he could be without being in range of dieing (Or, having a tank sit at low health, and have him taunt for only the strikes?)
    It doesn't work because of how healing works nowadays, aka smart heals and aoe heal spam and whatnot.

    But yes, that's the general idea.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer turskanaattori's Avatar
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    Does any video material of wipes trying this exist? Would be interesting to see that, too.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    When Ra-den hits 100 energy, he'll queue up Murderous Strike. May happen instantly, may happen 2-3 seconds later (just like Fatal Strike.)

    At the instant of the cast, he snapshots his current target's hp, then applies an un-cooldownable dot to the tank equal to that snapshotted value.

    So yeah, we tried the "get the tank as low as possible" strat. It ... doesn't really work. With the utterly massive amounts of damage he is doing during the entirety of the ruin phase - I don't think you guys have an appreciation for it, but quite literally we're talking about the damage that the imaginary 12th rampage on Megaera would be doing - there is so much smart healing flying around that tanks cannot be left low even if they tried. Smart heals will go and seek the tank out regardless. I would purposely take damage by standing in the blood pools the anima add makes, that tick for like 300k/sec, and even then I could not remain low consistently. I'd either die from tick + dot damage, or I'd get healed to full almost instantly and stay there.

    Of the 30+ murderous strikes that happened on our learning pulls, our tanks survived exactly 2 of them. One of them I blindly lucked out and only had 500k hp or so when he struck, the other time I had almost a million hp, and we told every healer to dump heals on the tank only, and after quite a bit of yo-yo'ing and proccing 2 guardian spirits ... I lived, but half the raid died in the process due to lack of heals.

    It's just a terribly stupid mechanic.
    How about having a paladin (or paladin and priest) standing out of range of healers, bubbling at low hp 5 secs or so before the strike (and out of ranged to be healed up), and then taunting just when it happens? Could use the priest to do that hp swap thing if you didn't want people running out of range rather low pre bubble.

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