Thread: 5.4 Encounters

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  1. #1

    5.4 Encounters

    So I know that there's an existing thread for staying alive and tips/tricks for 5.4 encounters over on EJ, but I was more curious if we could get a thread up and running around maximizing DPS on fights in 5.4. I came into this tier late and early on my damage was pretty awful (was pushing green/low blue on almost all non-Jin'Rokh/Ji-Kun fight in 540 ilvl). With experience and endless log, I managed to get my damage significantly up, but it was a substantial pain in the ass, and I couldn't find a particular "guide" or thread with information. There are still some fights where I just can't figure out where the discrepancy in damage comes from (Durumu, Primodrius and Iron Qon, mostly).

    But, with this tier being over, it would be nice to get a thread up and running for 5.4. I haven't tested anything on the PTR yet, so I don't know myself what fights will call for what, but it would certainly help a lot of users to get one up and running. I'm thinking something that isn't so obvious, so, for example, when to use FoK on a fight, or when to pop cooldowns, or any mechanics you can by-pass with Cloak/Sprint to increase uptime.

    Mod Hijack: Looking for a breakdown by fight? Here. (this thread). Also at EJ: Here.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-09-21 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Hijack.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    People still read EJ? I haven't bothered with that site in years. The entire forum is useless.

  3. #3
    I'm new-ish to 90 (hit it in late April), so it's the only real site I know of. Hell, last time I played this game, MMO-C was filled with casuals (not that there's anything wrong with being casual, but they don't have the best theorycrafting/raid advice), but this place has turned around. If there's a better site, please do share.

  4. #4
    Well, 5.4 is still on PTR. While many of the best players are already there testing the new boss fights, only when the patch hits live it will be played by a lot broader audience, hence more many different approaches and better defined tactics will come.

  5. #5
    Feel like it might be time to bump this up.

    Had some questions for Thok+Siegecrafter.

    Thok: My guild's been doing it where we extend the p1 as long as possible with raid CDs, then we extend his fixate phase as long as possible, as has told melee to not go anywhere near the boss at all, ever (a few people consistently died). My damage stays consistently high compared to the group, but not compared to other rogues. Are your groups doing it differently, or am I missing something?
    Siegecrafter: Similar thing here, I'm on conveyor belt duty, but most rogues I see are massacring it in the logs. How are your groups handling the belt?

  6. #6
    Do you have any logs to link by any chance? Easier to analyze your mistakes that way. Also ilvl?

  7. #7
    I've been finding a few targeting macros to be a dps boost on some fights to cast redirect and rupture if i'm going to be within the hitbox long enough to do so, but not long enough to build CP's and rupture the ole' fashioned way.

    Cast [@focus,exists,nodead] redirect; rupture

    No entirely sure I have the wording right here as I'm away from my home computer. I sometimes had to hit the macro twice, dunno why.

    This came in very handy on protectors and dark shaman.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    I've been finding a few targeting macros to be a dps boost on some fights to cast redirect and rupture if i'm going to be within the hitbox long enough to do so, but not long enough to build CP's and rupture the ole' fashioned way.

    Cast [@focus,exists,nodead] redirect; rupture

    No entirely sure I have the wording right here as I'm away from my home computer. I sometimes had to hit the macro twice, dunno why.

    This came in very handy on protectors and dark shaman.
    I think Redirect is on the GCD too (at least it used to be), so you'd have to press any macro twice. Also, the macro you posted won't ever cast Rupture unless you don't have a focus (and then it will cast on your target). What you're looking for might be this:

    Code:
    #show
    /castsequence [@focus,harm][] Redirect, Rupture

    That should focus cast Redirect then Rupture if your focus is an enemy; else Redirect then Rupture your target.

    EDIT: I'll post some rogue-specific encounter tips once I get some time to review the fights and compile everything.

  9. #9
    I don't think that's exactly what i'm using but I very much appreciate you posting one that works as opposed to what I threw out there One of these days i'm going to have to seriously relook my macro's. Mine work, but look like they were written in crayon.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stryk View Post
    Do you have any logs to link by any chance? Easier to analyze your mistakes that way. Also ilvl?
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/105755/

    Guild's log page. Was only in for the spoils kill, got sat on the last attempts for Malk and Thok, still not sure why.

    Overall, my damage was pretty high. I died on one attempt to Chomp and another to the DoT that never got cleansed (had popped cloak already).

    Oh, I'm the rogue named Lobstahclaw, should have mentioned that.

    And one more edit: My ilvl is 548 right now, but I'm without a 4pc t15 or 2pc t16 and pretty poorly itemized (10% expertise yay!). My sim DPS is ~235k
    Last edited by Kulestu; 2013-09-16 at 09:01 PM.

  11. #11
    Am I the only one choosing burst of speed over shadow-step on almost every fight in 5.4? so cheap and spammable...

    Anyway, if you haven't, make sure you're using the new FoK glyph. It really is a big boost in raid AoE.

    Some tips for blackfuse if you're on weapon killing duty (you should be able to solo it every other wave): Find which 2-weapon combo your raid has trouble with and destroy one of its components. By default we found the laser to be the easiest to deal with so we ignored those and the mines to be the most annoying so we just destroyed those unless we had shockwave+magnets on the same wave (magnets made it hard to dodge the shockwave) so we just destroyed one or the other in that case.

    Also you can ignore garrosh's whirly tornado of doom and continue hitting him with feint and/or cloak (don't forget it hits harder when empowered).

  12. #12
    I ended up pulling like 180k on blackfuse. Really obnoxious being on the belt for the pre-pot and bloodlust timing.

  13. #13
    Updated 10/10

    Please reply if you have anything to add.

    * = Heroic

    General
    • Check out the EJ thread too
    • Elusiveness works on all damage unless noted otherwise
    • Glyphed CoS works on all physical damage unless noted otherwise

    Immerseus

    • Crippling works on adds
    • Can CoS Swirl or ShS to someone on the other side
    • Can Feint damage from adds getting to the middle
    • Do not ShS the boss; it puts you in the middle and you take damage
    • * You can't CoS off Swelling Corruption, but you can immune its application
    • * You can build CPs with FoK and you don't gain Swelling Corruption stacks

    Protectors

    • Can CoS SW: Bane, Calamity, Sha Sear, Corrupting Brew, Corruption Kick, Inferno Strike, and any other magic things I missed
    • Feint works for Calamity and Inferno Strike
    • Evasion tanking the Mark of Anguish add is very effective
    • MN works on Rook's adds (Gloom, Sorrow, Misery) [1]
    • CoS will wipe the Mark of Anguish DoT, but Shadow Weakness still stacks [1][2]
    • * Mark of Anguish and Shadow Weakness do too much damage to evasion tank the add for very long [1]

    Norushen

    • CoS and Feint work on the pulsing AoE throughout the fight
    • Letting DoTs finish off adds in the solo challenge is a good idea [1]
    • Crippling works on big adds, but it's usually detrimental—don't use it [1]
    • MN works on the little adds [1]
    • CoS works on the cutter beam

    Sha of Pride

    • Feint and CoS work on Swelling Pride and the resulting 25/50/75 mechanics (Pride gain still applies though) [1]
    • CoS removes Mark of Arrogance and does not cause pride gain [1]
    • * Feint and CoS work on Unstable Corruption (closing rifts and the bolts; bolts still give Pride with Feint)

    Galakras

    • Feint works on all cleave effects the adds do (though they're avoidable as well)
    • Feint works on Pulsing Flames in the last phase
    • Do not try to solo soak Flames of Galakrond with CoS; it needs to pass through people to reduce the AoE to all players at the end (supposedly Vanish works... [1] I'd like more confirmation that it makes the spell not happen or redirects it)
    • Kidney Shot and Cheap Shot interrupt the Bonesplitters' channel; Gouge and Blind don't
    • You can ShS back onto the tower if you get knocked off by spamming it in the air [1]
    • Smoke Bomb will prevent Flames of Galakras DoT application. If timed perfectly, it will fall off the whole raid [1]
    • You can get from the right tower to the left by Sprinting, jumping off the edge, and ShSing the cannon [1] Goblin Glider > ShS cannon also works

    Iron Juggernaut

    • Feint does not work against solo soaking Crawler Mines; does work on ones that detonate on the raid
    • Elusiveness+Glyphed CoS is enough to soak mines and Sym Growl helps; can only safely do every other set
    • Can soak multiple mines in one set by putting up Elusiveness+Glyphed CoS, activating one, ShSing to another, and activating it. You will need heals in between or a pre-cast PW:S
    • Feint works on Seismic Activity
    • You can ShS back onto the boss after Shock Pulse if you're quick enough
    • CoS immunes the knockback from Shock Pulse [1]
    • Killing Spree keeps you on the boss through Shock Pulse [1]

    Dark Shaman

    • Feint works on every AoE in this fight
    • CoS works on Foul Stream, the AoE from oozes, and Falling Ash; does not work on Toxic Mist
    • Evasion and CR work against the Ashen Wall
    • Rupture multidotting is a good idea since they share a health pool
    • Can ShS over Ashen Wall [1]
    • Dismantle works on the bosses [1]
    • * Feint does not work on Iron Prison, but Elusiveness does

    Nazgrim

    • Feint works on every AoE
    • CoS works on the mage add's casts if you can anticipate it going on you
    • Both Crippling and MN work on all the adds; use whichever is more useful for your group
    • All CC works on all adds
    • * Dismantle is very useful against Snipers

    Malkorok

    • Feint works on Imploding Energy, Slam, Breath, and Blood Rage
    • CoS works on Breath of Y'Shaarj (in case you didn't pay attention to Slams), Imploding Energy, and Displaced Energy (but it still AoEs, so run out first)
    • * CoS prevents damage from orbs and keeps your shield
    • * BoS immunes the add's slowing aura for ~.5s

    Spoils

    • Feint works on every AoE
    • CoS can be used to clear bombs early
    • Anyone can pick up any monk buff and the correct role will still get the buff

    Thok

    • Feint works on Deafening Screech
    • CoS clears Corrosive Blood and Icy Blood
    • You can melee Thok during the Fixate phase as long as you don't go in front of him; watch his fixate cast [1]
    • Vanish clears Fixate [1]
    • Dismantle works on Jailors and Shiv clears their enrage

    Blackfuse

    • Feint works on all AoEs
    • CoS clears Superheated if you run over fire
    • CoS works on the beams on the Conveyor Belt [1]
    • Can't ShS to/from the Conveyor Belt
    • Crawler Mines only Detonate on their fixate target, so you can melee them. Be wary of CC though; it resets their fixate, so you should be away from them when this happens

    Paragons

    • Feint works on every AoE (though most still hurt too much to stand in)
    • CoS doesn't seem to clear anything, but it prevents damage from Fiery Edge
    • If you get Mesmirized, you can still ShS anything to increase the distance (calculate the 2s speed boost into this though). Also, do not use any speed boost; you will run at the Kuchong faster

    Garrosh

    • Feint works on Whirling Corruption, so you can stay in melee and DPS it (once empowered, watch for void zones though; they are hard to see in melee)
    • Feint works on Annihilation, so roll it if you end up not getting Consumed Courage
    • CoS prevents all the magic damage in this fight but doesn't remove anything useful (didn't test if it will immune MC casts)
    • Your non-lethal poison stays on MC targets after they get un-MC'd and doesn't do anything useful, so just don't use one
    • Sym Growl taunts Minions (useful to separate them)

  14. #14
    I did not test if CoS will remove Mark of Arrogance or if it gives Pride when done
    It removes the debuff without pride gain (without the gift).

    And to add some things to the previous post.
    Gonna look at some fights again this week. Also only killed 7bosses last week because i was absent on the other raids.

    Iron Juggernaut:

    • Only glyphed CoS is also enough to soak one mine, although you take like 500k-550k damage (and this was 25m normal). Cheat death didn't proc. (Was trying that fight with it. we pretty much 1 shot him, so couldn't do much testing.
    • You can have 100% uptime on the boss if you time Shadowstep right and CoS immunes the knockback. So first Shockpulse ShS, 2nd CoS, 3rd ShS again.

    Norushen:
    • you don't have to be on the small adds in the solo-challenge until they die, jump to the next one so it dies from your dots.

    Galakras:
    • If you are on tower duty and get knocked back, you can spam shadowstep in the air to stay on the tower.

    New FoK glyph is nice for Sha of Pride and Galakras. and trash.
    Last edited by Hntr; 2013-09-17 at 10:13 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    Thok: My guild's been doing it where we extend the p1 as long as possible with raid CDs, then we extend his fixate phase as long as possible, as has told melee to not go anywhere near the boss at all, ever (a few people consistently died). My damage stays consistently high compared to the group, but not compared to other rogues. Are your groups doing it differently, or am I missing something?
    You can melee in the kite phase, just make sure you never go in front of him. He won't turn around until he completes his fixate cast so you have time to get out of the way.
    Siegecrafter: Similar thing here, I'm on conveyor belt duty, but most rogues I see are massacring it in the logs. How are your groups handling the belt?
    Are you seeing other rogues massacring the conveyor belt, or the fight in general? Because if you kill the mines, this fight is pretty much Patchwerk for melee that isn't on Assembly Line duty.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MrElusive View Post
    You can melee in the kite phase, just make sure you never go in front of him. He won't turn around until he completes his fixate cast so you have time to get out of the way.
    Are you seeing other rogues massacring the conveyor belt, or the fight in general? Because if you kill the mines, this fight is pretty much Patchwerk for melee that isn't on Assembly Line duty.
    The rogues that massacre the fight are the ones with 100% damage done to siegecrafter, not the belt.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    The rogues that massacre the fight are the ones with 100% damage done to siegecrafter, not the belt.
    Well, there you have it, not every dps in the group need to go on the belts, and Siegecrafter himself is just a metal Patchwerk if you kill the mines.
    On our 10 man kill yesterday me and a hunter stayed on Siegecrafter the whole fight while warrior+mage and dk+spriest took care of the belts.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post

    Galakras

    • Do not try to solo soak Flames of Galakrond with CoS; it needs to pass through people to reduce the AoE to all players at the end

    Iron Juggernaut

    • You can ShS back onto the boss after Shock Pulse if you're quick enough

    Thok

    • Feint works on Deafening Screech
    • CoS clears Corrosive Blood and Icy Blood

    Blackfuse

    • CoS does not work on the beams on the Conveyor Belt

    Garrosh

    I probably missed some things, but we didn't wipe enough to test a lot or worry about cheesing certain mechanics. I'll update if necessary once we start doing heroics.
    I believe you can vanish Flames of Galakras it worked for me at least(?)

    CoS works against Shock Pulse also.

    You can vanish Thok's Fixate.

    CoS DOES work on the beams on the Conveyor Belt on Blackfuse (or maybe I timed immune so well)!

    You can Cloack immune damage from Iron Stars on Garrosh (don't ask how I tested it )
    I survived 2010 Summer in Moscow without leaving city for a single day!

  19. #19
    Mind numbing works on the casting adds that spawn for Rook's special on Protectors

    I found crippling to be detrimental on Nourishan, slowed the large adds and made tank positioning more difficult

    Mind numbing works to slow the cast time on the add that pops up in the back on sha of pride

    Killing spree works to keep you in range on juggernauts pulse.

    The ashen wall on Dark Shaman can be avoided by SHS from one shamman to another

  20. #20
    Curious if anyone is playing with Burst of Speed or if they are staying with Shadowstep. In Norushen I used BoS, seemed to work pretty well. Not sure it was the right call though.

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