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  1. #1

    5.4 Fire Mage Stat Priority Change

    Do we have any actual numbers/sims on the stat priority change for 5.4? I know a lot of people are saying that due to the combustion nerf, mastery will be shit (or at least not prioritized) for fire.

    If that is the case (which I agree it probably is), what does our new stat priority look like? Are we simply going Crit > Haste > Mastery now? No threshold/soft cap at all or are we just going to go for the 7073/8085/8127/9095 caps? I guess it depends on what you can get to? Just soft cap at the highest threshold you can hit and put the remaining hundred or so points into mastery?

    Had not seen an official stat priority change thread for 5.4 fire yet so I figured it couldn't hurt. (please keep this thread on topic, no fire vs arcane bull shit)

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusteyy View Post
    Do we have any actual numbers/sims on the stat priority change for 5.4? I know a lot of people are saying that due to the combustion nerf, mastery will be shit (or at least not prioritized) for fire.

    If that is the case (which I agree it probably is), what does our new stat priority look like? Are we simply going Crit > Haste > Mastery now? No threshold/soft cap at all or are we just going to go for the 7073/8085/8127/9095 caps? I guess it depends on what you can get to? Just soft cap at the highest threshold you can hit and put the remaining hundred or so points into mastery?

    Had not seen an official stat priority change thread for 5.4 fire yet so I figured it couldn't hurt. (please keep this thread on topic, no fire vs arcane bull shit)
    Crit Haste, Mastery...no break points any longer. Vykina has been doing this on the PTR and other's showing with the combustion nerf this is the new priority.

  3. #3
    Okay, so we are going for crit/hit or haste off pieces? I am assuming the MH off of Nazgrim is going to be BiS then?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103946

    Or maybe the hit/crit MH off of Paragons?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103973

    Helm is still best off piece?

    This kindof changes a lot of things since mastery was/is so valuable in its current iteration.
    Last edited by Dusteyy; 2013-09-05 at 05:19 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusteyy View Post
    Okay, so we are going for crit/hit or haste off pieces? I am assuming the MH off of Nazgrim is going to be BiS then?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103946

    Or maybe the hit/crit MH off of Paragons?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103973

    Helm is still best off piece?

    This kindof changes a lot of things since mastery was/is so valuable in its current iteration.
    Crit/haste is really the prio, and hit is just something we get from reforging mastery and lil bit of haste. Ain't gonna raid in 5.4 though, so can't help on the gear choices..

  5. #5
    Crit/haste for sure, more ticks on dots aswell as it buffs your legendary cloak.

  6. #6
    Field Marshal Preheet's Avatar
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    Seeing as how combustion won't be our big damaging spell any more.. I think it's safe to say that going for mastery as a last priority is what fire mages should be looking at going into 5.4. Pyroblast will obviously be our big hitter, so stacking Crit/Haste will be far more beneficial to our rotation. Given that once we have our tier bonuses, haste caps can be easily calculated, given the average uptime of our 2p t16.

    Currently.. our stat weights (correct me if i'm wrong) are:

    Intellect - 4.8 (Obvious)
    Spell Hit to 15% Cap - 3.78
    Spell Power - 3.62

    Critical Strike - 3.12
    Haste - 2.62
    Mastery - 2.23

    I'm not good at calculating the nerf combustion took into account given these weights (30% ~ Nerf?)

    If someone could do that, it would be awesome.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusteyy View Post
    Okay, so we are going for crit/hit or haste off pieces? I am assuming the MH off of Nazgrim is going to be BiS then?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103946

    Or maybe the hit/crit MH off of Paragons?

    http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=103973

    Helm is still best off piece?

    This kindof changes a lot of things since mastery was/is so valuable in its current iteration.
    Was just looking at vykina's BiS list earlier today and he changed it recently (8-30-13) from the crit/haste sword to the crit/hit dagger. Also he has the Chest from Spoils of Pandaria as the offpiece.

    http://www.methodwow.com/board/showt...-Guide/page175

    Also, with the changes to combustion, is glyphing it so it lines up with AT for every other one still gonna be the way to go, or just unglyph it and use on cooldown?

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Preheet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youvegotfail View Post
    Also, with the changes to combustion, is glyphing it so it lines up with AT for every other one still gonna be the way to go, or just unglyph it and use on cooldown?
    I think un-glyping it and using it off cooldown might be more beneficial on fights that require add switching, etc. It remains to be determined, haven't been able to find any discussions about the Combustion Glyph.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Youvegotfail View Post
    Was just looking at vykina's BiS list earlier today and he changed it recently (8-30-13) from the crit/haste sword to the crit/hit dagger. Also he has the Chest from Spoils of Pandaria as the offpiece.
    I would kinda wanna know why.. I mean I guess if haste and crit are close, the 23 more stats on the dagger matters more than the 64 more crit rating on the sword, but hell they have to be really close then..

  11. #11
    Does 2 Haste beat 1 Int? From the method forums it someone said:

    my ones are something like: int=1, crit=0,75, haste=0,6, mastery=0,5

    So we want to gem:
    Red = Expertise + Crit
    Yellow = Crit
    Blue = Hit + Crit

    and reforge so each piece of gear has Crit and Haste?

  12. #12
    I am pretty sure red sockets will still be crit/int. I do not see a reason to go exp/crit for red. No reason you should be hurting for hit THAT badly.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusteyy View Post
    I am pretty sure red sockets will still be crit/int. I do not see a reason to go exp/crit for red. No reason you should be hurting for hit THAT badly.
    Mmmm... he may have a point though, as counter-intuitive as it sounds. The idea would be to reforge the hit on crit/hit pieces to haste. The stat weights posted by Preheet above would potentially support using expertise/crit gems in red slots. If expertise/crit gems don't take you beyond the 15% hit cap, it's at least worth testing, assuming stat weights are somewhat accurate.

    I believe a more pertinent question is whether Fire Mages will have an accurate simulation program come 5.4. Anyone know if there will be a way for us to sim our gear more accurately?

  14. #14
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusteyy View Post
    I am pretty sure red sockets will still be crit/int. I do not see a reason to go exp/crit for red. No reason you should be hurting for hit THAT badly.
    We actually will be hurting for a bit on Hit due to the lack of Hit pieces (granted, these aren't my direct words because I didn't look into gear; I've just heard it multiple times now). Should it come to it, we may need to gem a bit of Hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyromelter View Post
    Mmmm... he may have a point though, as counter-intuitive as it sounds. The idea would be to reforge the hit on crit/hit pieces to haste. The stat weights posted by Preheet above would potentially support using expertise/crit gems in red slots. If expertise/crit gems don't take you beyond the 15% hit cap, it's at least worth testing, assuming stat weights are somewhat accurate.

    I believe a more pertinent question is whether Fire Mages will have an accurate simulation program come 5.4. Anyone know if there will be a way for us to sim our gear more accurately?
    Yeah... except losing Intellect and Crit for Haste would be even more counter-intuitive.

    The only reason you'd gem to Hit is because you need more Hit, or because it's a Blue socket. There's no other reason.

    Mages probably won't be simmed correctly due to L90 talents probably still being overvalued. They didn't bother to fix it for T14/T15, so why would they just all-of-a-sudden fix it for T16? Especially if it's a hard fix; they could just wait til T17 when the talents are gone.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
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  15. #15
    I guess going with the crit/hit MH will be a better way to attain cap than gemming it which may be the cause for Vykina's BiS list change.

    Any ideas why he changed his off piece to chest instead of helm? I am assuming it is because the helm off of Imerseous is crit/mastery? I am glad he finally changed to Black Blood, I figured it was too good to pass up. The cleave trinket may be interesting in helping fire keep up on multitarget fights though.

  16. #16
    I'm just wondering ... does anyone have any logs of fire actually doing well on PTR in comparison to arcane? I would love to see them since in my guilds testing it's been fairly conclusive that fire really won't be very good at all (watching midwinter stream also confirmed this for me...)

    Vykina seems adamant that fire is the way to go (which I would LOVE, btw, it's my favourite spec by far!), but I just don't see any evidence of this

    www.scrubbusters.com - 12/14HC - Recruiting exceptional players!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Grondath View Post
    I'm just wondering ... does anyone have any logs of fire actually doing well on PTR in comparison to arcane? I would love to see them since in my guilds testing it's been fairly conclusive that fire really won't be very good at all (watching midwinter stream also confirmed this for me...)

    Vykina seems adamant that fire is the way to go (which I would LOVE, btw, it's my favourite spec by far!), but I just don't see any evidence of this
    Blatty has stated several times that arcane is underperforming in BiS gear on PTR. Vykina has confirmed this as well. Obviously I do not have numbers or videos as proof as I was not the one raiding, but they have been quite adamant about it as you said.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Grondath View Post
    I'm just wondering ... does anyone have any logs of fire actually doing well on PTR in comparison to arcane? I would love to see them since in my guilds testing it's been fairly conclusive that fire really won't be very good at all (watching midwinter stream also confirmed this for me...)

    Vykina seems adamant that fire is the way to go (which I would LOVE, btw, it's my favourite spec by far!), but I just don't see any evidence of this
    Might be a conspiracy to make all non-method mages go suboptimal spec in progress !

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fusionz View Post
    Might be a conspiracy to make all non-method mages go suboptimal spec in progress !
    Haha, you might be onto something there! I haven't seen a mage from ANY other guild agree with them :P

    www.scrubbusters.com - 12/14HC - Recruiting exceptional players!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Preheet View Post
    Seeing as how combustion won't be our big damaging spell any more.. I think it's safe to say that going for mastery as a last priority is what fire mages should be looking at going into 5.4. Pyroblast will obviously be our big hitter, so stacking Crit/Haste will be far more beneficial to our rotation. Given that once we have our tier bonuses, haste caps can be easily calculated, given the average uptime of our 2p t16.

    Currently.. our stat weights (correct me if i'm wrong) are:

    Intellect - 4.8 (Obvious)
    Spell Hit to 15% Cap - 3.78
    Spell Power - 3.62

    Critical Strike - 3.12
    Haste - 2.62
    Mastery - 2.23

    I'm not good at calculating the nerf combustion took into account given these weights (30% ~ Nerf?)

    If someone could do that, it would be awesome.

    Here is a compare LIVE vs PTR, done with simulationcraft, calculations from my mage (Ilvl538).
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...onordon/simple

    According to my simcraft result the nerf is more than 30%.

    LIVE Combustion damage
    With Glyph 2 289 618 damage per execution (DPE) (DPS = 26 040) (95sec interval)

    PTR Combustion damage
    With Glyph 964 602 damage per execution (DPE) (DPS = 10 971) (95 sec interval)
    Without Glyph 389 912 damage per execution (DPE) (DPS = 7 852) (52 sec interval)

    These are priority stats for my character it might differ from yours. (Ilvl538). (Normalized)
    I have around 48% crit in raids.

    LIVE
    HIT = 100 (till 15%)
    Intellect = 89
    Haste = 67
    Crit = 64
    Mastery = 63

    PTR
    Intellect = 100
    HIT = 99 (till 15%)
    Crit = 68
    Haste = 61
    Mastery = 54

    Differences between LIVE and PTR
    CRIT = +4
    HASTE = -6
    MASTERY = -9

    Impossible for me to add the results here so here is a link to the file.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/96kquigroz...0live_ptr.html

    I hope i didn't miss anything.
    Last edited by Moronordon; 2013-09-06 at 04:41 PM.

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