Lorewise, is it harder to learn Divine/Nature magic than Arcane?

[JFrombaugh]

As far as casters go, it seems that Mages are by far the most common lorewise. Most races have several members who practice the arcane in some form, and even races like Ogres often have magic users. However, the more you wield Arcane magic, the more you want to wield Arcane magic - it's a corrupting force, so consequently many Mages unknowingly set themselves down the path to ruin.

Becoming a Divine Magic user (Druid/Shaman/Priest/Paladin), on the other hand, is very dependent on one's faith and inner power. There are several tests of faith that one must pass in training, and it is strongly implied that these classes have much more strict alignment & personality "requirements" congruent with the deities they are following.

This COULD be part of the reason why Shamans are held in such high regard in some Horde societies compared to Mages, because not everyone can become one. On the other hand, with Arcane magic, you don't need to possess a certain set of beliefs or go through a strict training regimen, as long as you have knowledge of the spells and how to cast them.

So what do you think?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

It depends on what you mean by harder. I would say that arcane requires more intelligence while divine and nature require more wisdom and strength of character.

[wych]

Since Arcane Magic has been described as mathematical as opposed to just "magic" i'd say the intricacies of understanding Arcane is much trickier

[Geary]

I may be way off, but my impression was that shamanistic magic works differently than priest/paladin casting. I thought shamans needed to work with the elements, implying that the elements have their own wills, and don't necessarily like to cooperate. On the other hand, the Light appears to work for anyone who has the zeal for it (e.g. Scarlet Crusaders). Apologies if my understanding is wrong.

[Hitei]

I may be way off, but my impression was that shamanistic magic works differently than priest/paladin casting. I thought shamans needed to work with the elements, implying that the elements have their own wills, and don't necessarily like to cooperate. On the other hand, the Light appears to work for anyone who has the zeal for it (e.g. Scarlet Crusaders). Apologies if my understanding is wrong.

You can force the elements to your will, like dark shamans do.

Similarly, Nature and Divine spell casting seems to be an inherent skill or something that has to be forcibly acquired (like the blood elves used to do). Whereas anyone with the intelligence and willpower needed to cast magic seems to be able to use generic arcane magic. This is somewhat evidenced by people's inability/incompatibility with nature/divine magic (Illidan, Zinkiki).

[Orloth]

It depends on what you mean by harder. I would say that arcane requires more intelligence while divine and nature require more wisdom and strength of character.

A little bit of an expansion on that: Arcane magic and it's variations (Necromancy and Demonology) are expresses as being more formulaic and math based. Divine and Nature magics tend to be about gaining the favor of the source and channeling that source appropriately (Your sponsors handle all the technical details). As an example, both Shamans and Mages can throw fire. A Mage would make the calculations as to heat, ignition, fuel, velocity, etc. to build a magic construct which they then fuel with raw arcane (or fel or shadow in the cases of warlocks and DKs) power. A shaman would request the aid of the Fire elementals and channel that power into a bolt of energy. There are exceptions (like some Warlocks dismissing math and channeling fel power directly, this is largely seen as reckless as you are removing a buffer), but that is the principle difference between Arcane and Divine magic in pretty much any system that makes the distinction.

Keep in mind that everything I just typed above me comes from my experience as a GM and player of RPGs, and may not necessarily hold true to the Warcraft 'verse, but did in the RPG books.

----Update----

I may be way off, but my impression was that shamanistic magic works differently than priest/paladin casting. I thought shamans needed to work with the elements, implying that the elements have their own wills, and don't necessarily like to cooperate. On the other hand, the Light appears to work for anyone who has the zeal for it (e.g. Scarlet Crusaders). Apologies if my understanding is wrong.

The light (and shadow) has it's own motives just as elementals do. The problem is that the light is granted by the emotional state of the wielder, and doesn't usually fact check the wielder's motives. They simply check and see if they want to serve others and destroy Evildoers. It's a different source, but the methods of wielding it are essentially the same. You are channeling the power from *vaguely waves hand* "Elsewhere".

[Restors]

I thought shamans needed to work with the elements, implying that the elements have their own wills, and don't necessarily like to cooperate.

Mostly correct... A true shaman lends the strength of the elements, if they see your intentions is for good, they are willing to aid you. But lately, seems dark shamans can twist them. Not the first time thou, if i remember it correct, the taunkas could bend the elements and obey them too.

[Florena]

Mostly correct... A true shaman lends the strength of the elements, if they see your intentions is for good, they are willing to aid you. But lately, seems dark shamans can twist them. Not the first time thou, if i remember it correct, the taunkas could bend the elements and obey them too.

The Twilight's Hammer did that a lot too.

[checking facts]

arcane magic is science. you study a lot, you learn it.

divine magic is religion. you must have strong convictions.

personally, I'd say divine magic would be hard for me. but that's more of a personal trait than an universal truth.

so, I'd say it depends on the practitioner's aptitudes.

[JFrombaugh]

It depends on what you mean by harder. I would say that arcane requires more intelligence while divine and nature require more wisdom and strength of character.

By harder I mean which one would your typical "new adventurer" less likely to succeed at "aspiring to be" due to not possessing the necessary talent or mindset.

I've just really gotten the impression that all it really takes to become a Mage is studying the various techniques and practicing the spells you want to learn since most of the well-known spells are probably catalogued in various spellbooks anyway. I suspect this is probably why Mages often are seen as "reckless", because it is an addictive energy and there's no "elemental attunement" involved in the process, rather it just creates heat or cold.

This is also a very different approach from Mages in other universes (i.e FFXIV Conjurer description: "Conjury calls upon the elements of earth, wind, and water and concentrates them to a potency at which spells can be weaved. Through practiced meditation on the essences of creation, conjurers draw forth and absorb aether from their immediate surroundings. A wand or cane made from unworked wood is then utilized to focus the aether until it manifests as the desired spell.")

Divine Magic seems to have much higher "barriers to entry" due to the need to attune yourself in order to reliably gain the favor of the deities/elements, and consequently Divine Magic users often suffer consequences for "alignment drift". For instance, if Jaina was a Priest instead of a Mage, I think she probably would've lost her connection to the Light due to her shift in personality in Tides of War/Patch 5.1, or at the very least would've gotten in trouble with the Church.

It's tough to describe, and this is probably a pretty bad analogy...

But to me it is like:
Shaman = Person who actually learns how to play the violin and joins/plays in a symphony orchestra
Mage = Person who creates a symphony using Garage Band or a synthesizer or something similar

[checking facts]

Mostly correct... A true shaman lends the strength of the elements, if they see your intentions is for good, they are willing to aid you. But lately, seems dark shamans can twist them. Not the first time thou, if i remember it correct, the taunkas could bend the elements and obey them too.

no, the taunka are not like the dark shamans. I'd say we've seen 3 types of shamanism up until now:

1 - classic shamanism: the shaman asks the elements for aid and offers them balance in return. the elements have the right to ignore their call. the orcs, tauren, trolls, goblins, draenei and dwarves generally use this type of shamanism;

2 - forceful shamanism: the shaman bullies the elements into obeying him, offering nothing in return. the taunka use this type of shamanism;

3 - dark shamanism: the shaman enslaves, corrupts and twists the elements. the dark shamans of the twilight's hammer, the ashtongue tribe and the "true horde" use this type of shamanism;

- - - Updated - - -

But to me it is like:
Shaman = Person who actually learns how to play the violin and joins/plays in a symphony orchestra
Mage = Person who creates a symphony using Garage Band or a synthesizer or something similar

I'd say this analogy seems just wrong at a basic level. a better analogy would be:

shaman = bishop
mage = scientist

[Kozaky]

Now here's a question for you... where does a monk's "Mists" for mistweaving come from and how does it fit into this?

[JFrombaugh]

shaman = bishop
mage = scientist

So would Druid be a forest ranger? Or would they be closer to a Hunter?

[checking facts]

Now here's a question for you... where does a monk's "Mists" for mistweaving come from and how does it fit into this?

as far as magic goes, monks look very much like "kung fu shamans" to me.

they preach about balance, they use elements such as wind, earth and fire. they heal with mists (mist = water on the air). they put objects of faith on the floor to use magic with them (statues - totems), they channel the power of powerful spirits (the celestials). they split themselves into elements, like happened to thrall in the firelands patch.

[Hitei]

Now here's a question for you... where does a monk's "Mists" for mistweaving come from and how does it fit into this?

Assuming that Shaohao's technique was a similar form of spellcasting, it seems to draw from the user's spirit.

Although since a single spirit could cloak the entire continent in mist for 10,000+ years... a single mistweaving spell probably has a spiritual cost of almost nothing.

[Coil]

I would imagine Chi comes from one's self(the mistweaver). not really magic in a traditional sense, more like a refinement of their spirit.

[checking facts]

So would Druid be a forest ranger? Or would they be closer to a Hunter?

druidism = religion

so you can imagine a druid as a leader from some crazy naturalist religion that tells people to go to the forest, throw away their clothes and live a primal life like nature would want them to lol