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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Not saying your idea is bad but wow is hardly a "hard game" when you play it solo. If these quests were part of a heroic raid dungeon then maybe, but like the brawler guild or green fire is easy as hell and is more of a gear check rather than any actual skill.
    You're right, but brawler's guild, green fire, and even the celestial challenges for the 600 cloak were kinda hard for the normal players not in heroic raiding gear. And I think proving grounds will be the same.
    If people overgear it... well, that means it's old content and noone should care.

    I want class based titles!
    High Priest <Name>
    Archmage <Name>
    Grand Shaman <Name>
    You get the idea.
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  2. #22
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    I disagree, Brawler's guild is/was fun to do and I spent a lot of hours there. A good game is a game where everyone finds something that fits his goals, so developing content for the 0.1% is necessary.
    Come back and tell me that when they remove heroic raids in the next few years because so few people do them. People think its hard to find hc raiders now? Wait until all the Normal raiders quit normals and just do FLEXI.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Less then 0.001%. Brawler's guild was a waste of dev time. There are better things to spend time on.
    Yet they did it, and expanded on it. I kinda lost interest at level 7ish, but think it's fine and evidence they have the design capacity to be adding such things because I don't feel like other content has suffered as a result.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Come back and tell me that when they remove heroic raids in the next few years because so few people do them. People think its hard to find hc raiders now? Wait until all the Normal raiders quit normals and just do FLEXI.
    My guild managed to pull together and start 25H raiding just 3 months ago on a low pop RP server after a long hiatus. I think your argument will lose a lot more validity with realm coalescence and people find it easier to find people to participate in the content they want to do.

    The real problem people had with N last tier was gearing, which they had to do through long grinds of dailies before they felt able to beat Normal. They might feel better about their chances stepping up a level with the faster gearing Flex will offer alongside Timeless Isle and their regular N progression.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2013-09-06 at 03:36 PM.

  4. #24
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Yet they did it, and expanded on it. I kinda lost interest at level 7ish, but think it's fine and evidence they have the design capacity to be adding such things because I don't feel like other content has suffered as a result.

    - - - Updated - - -


    My guild managed to pull together and start 25H raiding just 3 months ago on a low pop RP server after a long hiatus. I think your argument will lose a lot more validity with realm coalescence and people find it easier to find people to participate in the content they want to do.
    1. Content did suffer. 5.3 had so little in it it wasn't worth even been called a patch. I finished it in under 2 hours.

    2. Not many people can see it, but it is going to happen. Blizzard isn't going to keep running 4 modes of raids. They are trying to push everyone down one level to remove heroic raids in the long run. Feel free not to believe me but when it happens remember this post.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    1. Content did suffer. 5.3 had so little in it it wasn't worth even been called a patch. I finished it in under 2 hours.

    2. Not many people can see it, but it is going to happen. Blizzard isn't going to keep running 4 modes of raids. They are trying to push everyone down one level to remove heroic raids in the long run. Feel free not to believe me but when it happens remember this post.
    5.3 was a minor content patch. It's purpose is to introduce some quests, scenarios and balance changes as well as furthering the story. It's not supposed to be a new raid tier.

    And bullshit. Blizzard has been supporting 3-4 raid difficulties for ever. BC had whole different instances for you to go based on your gear and skill, Wrath had four raid difficulties, cata started with two then added a third and now we are back to four. If anything, it's easier to do now because all the difficulties are the same instance with some number shifts and tweaks. And they have mentioned many times that heroic raiding is not going anywhere.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    1. Content did suffer. 5.3 had so little in it it wasn't worth even been called a patch. I finished it in under 2 hours.

    2. Not many people can see it, but it is going to happen. Blizzard isn't going to keep running 4 modes of raids. They are trying to push everyone down one level to remove heroic raids in the long run. Feel free not to believe me but when it happens remember this post.
    5.3 was a technology test for dynamic world events. While I agree it sucked, it actually brought in completely new stuff we hadn't seen before.

    They won't. Heroic raiding is a focal point of the game; it's a draw that even players who don't get involved in it have often have a passing interest in it and it gives people something to aspire to. Rather than push people down, I think the extra levels and the gear rewards on offer will actually make it more accessible in the long run. The mis-step in 5.0 was that there was too big a step between heroics and Normal modes for social players who in Wrath would have gone into 10N; but we know from then that once you geared in 10N you'd join 25N pugs, and over time those groups became more adventurous and would knock over a couple of Heroic bosses. Thus Heroic modes also offer a nice means of giving a tier a longer lifespan too.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Sorry but LFR is now the focal point of wow now. I have nothing against heroic or lfr raids. It's just the truth of it now days.
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  8. #28
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    green fire is easy as hell and is more of a gear check rather than any actual skill.
    Have you actually done that quest? Last I checked you can't outgear that "boss fight" in this expansion because it's a test of timing your "enslave demon", teleports, and various talents/pet abilities while under constant pressure.

    Even Icy Veins contains a guide on it that starts with the line.

    Kanrethad is the final encounter of the quest line for warlocks to obtain green fire spell-effects. At the time of this post, he is one of the hardest solo encounters to date; from experience I’d say it’s more difficult than the benediction/anathema event. I’ve also been told it’s more difficult than the solo encounter to obtain Teragosa.

  9. #29
    as long as there is an Archmage title at the end of it im all in!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Sorry but LFR is now the focal point of wow now. I have nothing against heroic or lfr raids. It's just the truth of it now days.
    LFR never was or will be the focal point of the game. That's just rubbish. I think the developers on the encounters team would sooner switch to another game than design LFR-only content. I honestly don't know what you're smoking.

  11. #31
    I wish I knew the reason for the obsession the WoW community has towards "skill". It's a rather uncharacteristic reasoning to this genre.

    MMORPGS require a lot of attention, not skill, as demonstrated by the fact that everyone plays the same once they give the game enough time. No matter how hard you try, you are confined by the mechanics of the class you pick, so attention to detail is what separates success from failure.


  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Valenhil View Post
    I wish I knew the reason for the obsession the WoW community has towards "skill". It's a rather uncharacteristic reasoning to this genre.
    They want to feel like a special snowflake. They resent being lumped in with mouthbreathers.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Have you actually done that quest? Last I checked you can't outgear that "boss fight" in this expansion because it's a test of timing your "enslave demon", teleports, and various talents/pet abilities while under constant pressure.
    I'm sorry, but no, it has nothing to do with timing enslave demon. The quest is hard as hell in pre-500 ilvl, I'm telling you that because I've actually completed it in my 489 ilvl with my warlock alt, and I had to wipe there for something like 300 times. In fact, you have to execute all the fight with little to no mistakes from your side. From the other side, when my warlock reached 530 ilvl, I tried to play this fight once more, and guess what? It was a *yawn* fight. Of course I already knew exactly what to do and when; but owning Karenthad before he actually summoned a first doomguard is a very much example of overgearing.

    Back on topic. I loved class quests when they existed. So, I'd love to have some now for everybody, not just for chosen one classes some Blizzard lead manager's kid is playing this expansion. Even if it comes at a cost of Townlong steppes. Anyway, I never really liked Townlong steppes.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    Or... They could spend the time making something for the 99.9% not the 0.1%. That is the very reason townlong stepps exists. It was either make class quest or a whole zone.
    You know there is a percentage of us that think "whole zone" was the wrong choice in that decision right?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by jayinjersey View Post
    You know there is a percentage of us that think "whole zone" was the wrong choice in that decision right?
    Yeah I can't possibly fathom why anyone would rather have Townlong Steppes over class quests. Class quests make you feel cool and awesome, collecting bug arms does not.

  16. #36
    I like the idea!
    Make it really hard quests with Ilvl-Downscaling so that its really an achievement. Should have mainly cosmetic rewards though... Transmog sets, Titles, Mounts, Pets.
    Every quest could bring another queststep similar to the Legendary quest.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Liebchen View Post
    I like the idea!
    Make it really hard quests with Ilvl-Downscaling so that its really an achievement. Should have mainly cosmetic rewards though... Transmog sets, Titles, Mounts, Pets.
    Every quest could bring another queststep similar to the Legendary quest.
    I'm not sure I would go through Kanrethad for a mount or pet. Non-performance combat spell augmentations like the Codex of Xerath seem much more interesting a reward to me due to the fact they'll appeal to pretty much everyone.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans OzoAndIndi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirAaron View Post
    Something I would really like to see.
    The main point is that every class would get a very demanding quest chain like warlock green fire quest chain to check if one is skilled enough.
    After completing the chain you become a member of an elite organisation related to your class, for example:
    1. warlock -> council of the black harvest
    2. paladin -> argent crusade
    3. shamans -> earthen ring
    4. death knights -> maybe some council formed by kolthira, thassarian and orbaz?
    etc.

    When you finally are a member of the organisation you gain access to:
    1. dailies with better rewards than ordinary ones.
    2. quest chains involving some lore events
    3. lore items (books, scrolls etc. so you can know about the org.'s origins and other stuff)
    4. vanity items: mounts, 2 transmog sets(so ppl will have a choice - more variety), tabards and other stuff related to your class.
    5. sparing with leaders(fighting kolthira/thassarian etc.) for nice rewards.
    6. class-specific legendary chain.

    I am aware that it would require a lot of work from blizz to implement but I would really love to see it in-game. I hunger for some more Black Harvest action as only 2 members were shown so far and generally "training" with important lore characters such as Tirion or Thassarian would be cool imho.
    Became member of Revenholt as a low level. Wins.

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirAaron View Post
    Something I would really like to see.
    The main point is that every class would get a very demanding quest chain like warlock green fire quest chain to check if one is skilled enough.
    After completing the chain you become a member of an elite organisation related to your class, for example:
    1. warlock -> council of the black harvest
    2. paladin -> argent crusade
    3. shamans -> earthen ring
    4. death knights -> maybe some council formed by kolthira, thassarian and orbaz?
    etc.

    When you finally are a member of the organisation you gain access to:
    1. dailies with better rewards than ordinary ones.
    2. quest chains involving some lore events
    3. lore items (books, scrolls etc. so you can know about the org.'s origins and other stuff)
    4. vanity items: mounts, 2 transmog sets(so ppl will have a choice - more variety), tabards and other stuff related to your class.
    5. sparing with leaders(fighting kolthira/thassarian etc.) for nice rewards.
    6. class-specific legendary chain.

    I am aware that it would require a lot of work from blizz to implement but I would really love to see it in-game. I hunger for some more Black Harvest action as only 2 members were shown so far and generally "training" with important lore characters such as Tirion or Thassarian would be cool imho.

    As soon as you added the words "skilled players" to the end of your title you will have drawn all the LFR heroes to this thread. Good luck.


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  20. #40
    Scarab Lord TheWindWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    I'm sorry, but no, it has nothing to do with timing enslave demon. The quest is hard as hell in pre-500 ilvl, I'm telling you that because I've actually completed it in my 489 ilvl with my warlock alt, and I had to wipe there for something like 300 times. In fact, you have to execute all the fight with little to no mistakes from your side. From the other side, when my warlock reached 530 ilvl, I tried to play this fight once more, and guess what? It was a *yawn* fight. Of course I already knew exactly what to do and when; but owning Karenthad before he actually summoned a first doomguard is a very much example of overgearing.
    I don't think I've ever seen a better argument for the upcoming stat crunch. There shouldn't be as much of a difference between normal t14 and heroic t15 as there was between normal t11 and heroic t13.

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