1. #1

    Frost DW Socket[5.4/5.3]

    Hello.

    Yellow soket: +80 str +160 mastery ok?
    Red Soket: +160 str or 80 str +160 mastery?


    Thank you.

  2. #2
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    If you want to go full mastery, use 320mastery in yellow, 80str+160mastery in red and 160mastery+160hit in blue.
    If you want to go strength, use 80str+160mastery in yellow, 160str in red and 80str+160hit in blue.

  3. #3
    Which gem set gives you more dps? Or is it safe to assume, you would go pure mastery for fights with more AoE than others?

  4. #4
    In 5.4 it's fairly assured if you're ending in t15 level gear, you'll be gemming mastery right off the bat.

    In my gear at 540 item level, the PTR made pure mastery gemming a direct DPS increase over strength gemming, so assuming a similar level of gear, I imagine it'll hold true. This was current as of last night's build.
    Last edited by Murdos; 2013-09-06 at 06:27 PM.
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  5. #5
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    I gemmed mastery for our last T15 raid and it felt like a rather big dps loss (ilvl 550). Could have been other factors also though and of course it's ultra anecdotal. My simmed stat weight was 0.58 for mastery already, so there should have been a slight increase or at least no decrease in dps.

    I simmed a lot for 5.4 with my current gear (551, no T15pc) and the difference between full mastery and full strength was less than 2k dps. Given the results of my last ToT raid ever (hopefully), I will probably stay with the strength gemming.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    I gemmed mastery for our last T15 raid and it felt like a rather big dps loss (ilvl 550). Could have been other factors also though and of course it's ultra anecdotal. My simmed stat weight was 0.58 for mastery already, so there should have been a slight increase or at least no decrease in dps.

    I simmed a lot for 5.4 with my current gear (551, no T15pc) and the difference between full mastery and full strength was less than 2k dps. Given the results of my last ToT raid ever (hopefully), I will probably stay with the strength gemming.

    You did it in 5.3. Of course it was a DPS loss. You won't see full benefits until all the 5.4 buffs are in, The 15% razorice debuff is a real big one for Mastery's benefits.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    I gemmed mastery for our last T15 raid and it felt like a rather big dps loss (ilvl 550). Could have been other factors also though and of course it's ultra anecdotal. My simmed stat weight was 0.58 for mastery already, so there should have been a slight increase or at least no decrease in dps.

    I simmed a lot for 5.4 with my current gear (551, no T15pc) and the difference between full mastery and full strength was less than 2k dps. Given the results of my last ToT raid ever (hopefully), I will probably stay with the strength gemming.
    That means nothing for what your dps would be like in 5.4, the ptr is the only place that could tell you how you would actually do comparatively and you would still have to run both ways to know.

    I'd say if you are gemmed mastery, stick with it for 5.4, worst case the second week (or second raid night) you could regem str if you think its going to be better. Changing now would be a waste of money/gems, if you end up wanting to go mastery next week.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    You did it in 5.3. Of course it was a DPS loss. You won't see full benefits until all the 5.4 buffs are in, The 15% razorice debuff is a real big one for Mastery's benefits.
    Set bonuses too

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    Set bonuses too
    This as well, the 2-set alone is worth so much DPS it's ridiculous.
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  10. #10
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    You did it in 5.3. Of course it was a DPS loss.
    Like I said, the stat weight according to SimC was already higher for 2 mastery than for 1 strength on live 5.3, that's why I wanted to give it a try. And, according to SimC, the stat weight won't change much for my current gear with 5.4.

    Of course the changes will increase the value of mastery. But will it increase them enough to gem it on day 1? I'm not convinced yet.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    Like I said, the stat weight according to SimC was already higher for 2 mastery than for 1 strength on live 5.3, that's why I wanted to give it a try. And, according to SimC, the stat weight won't change much for my current gear with 5.4.

    Of course the changes will increase the value of mastery. But will it increase them enough to gem it on day 1? I'm not convinced yet.
    Have you logged into the PTR, at all? Easy way to test.
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  12. #12
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    Nope. I'm in a world 100 guild and have ilvl 551, please tell me what PTR means.

    The problem with the PTR is that I can't do much more there than hit the dummy for a couple of hours and the results would still be too RNG to draw conclusions.
    Last edited by Nedda; 2013-09-06 at 08:12 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    Nope. I'm in a world 100 guild and have ilvl 551, please tell me what PTR means.

    The problem with the PTR is that I can't do much more there than hit the dummy for a couple of hours and the results would still be too RNG to draw conclusions.
    Oh, I'm sorry. Was it your Epeen and item level asking the question, or should I address the answer to you still?

    You could have spent the entire cycle logging in to the PTR and doing dungeons, scenarios, raid tests; hell LFR even; just to get a feel for where your damage normally is, and where it is with the changes. It's not a 100% accurate or applicable test to everyone, but it is applicable to YOU and YOUR style of gaming and what you personally know YOU can put out given gear and ability. There's far more then just the dummy available, I've been doing it for the latter half of the cycle just to get a feel for the spec and how it'll perform in my current gear, to get a jump on the content next week.

    But, I guess someone in a World 100 guild doesn't have time to do that, just us little pissants in 4/13h guilds, right?
    Vampire Zombie Werewolf

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    Nope. I'm in a world 100 guild and have ilvl 551, please tell me what PTR means.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh78T--ZUxY

  15. #15
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdos View Post
    Have you logged into the PTR, at all? Easy way to test.
    What bothered me is that asking this question the way you did sounded rather offensive to me (not as in "me as a world 100 raider", but in general). And the point is that it's not an easy way to test, there isn't any at all. The differences between str/mastery gems are much smaller than comparing different specs or even different reforges. So running LFR two times with different gems and then calling it a day won't do the trick. We would need far more accurate sims for that to eliminate RNG. And if a sim tells me to gem mastery and I lose more dps than can be explained with RNG, guess what? I'm not going to trust the results of that sim in its current state anymore.

    Also I didn't ask anyone about anything, I told OP what I'm going to do and why, that's it.

  16. #16
    I dont want a flame please. 1 week to 5.4, i would BUY NOW the gem i want only know what gem So, 320 mastery or 80str+160mastery ?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by mrwash89 View Post
    I dont want a flame please. 1 week to 5.4, i would BUY NOW the gem i want only know what gem So, 320 mastery or 80str+160mastery ?
    To answer your question OP just look at this, this answers it pretty well.
    I'll be testing out my 1handers I just got, so i'll be playing with gems a bit tonight and if I find something diff then this quote below i'll let you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    If you want to go full mastery, use 320mastery in yellow, 80str+160mastery in red and 160mastery+160hit in blue.
    If you want to go strength, use 80str+160mastery in yellow, 160str in red and 80str+160hit in blue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nedda View Post
    Nope. I'm in a world 100 guild and have ilvl 551, please tell me what PTR means.
    I am sorry, but really Nedda. I thought highly of you for your work in the PTR thread and you all but toss it out the window with one sentence. Yes you are right that there is no easy way to test, but not testing at all is worse. A couple people pointed out how you tested going mastery in 5.3, compared to 5.4 ptr, and you say you aren't convinced the changes are enough to be a day 1 change. Yet you don't test it. Just really I lost a lot of respect for you if you are going to be this way.
    Asking if someone logged into the PTR at all, is not a rude question and his context and wording lead nothing to that sort of meaning.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zalavaaris View Post
    A+ video use

  18. #18
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    What would you suggest for me to do on the PTR to minimize RNG and compare both? Serious question. Because I can't get my guild to do multiple runs of LFR to the point where I can say this or that does significantly more damage and isn't caused by different groups/tactics/buffs. Dungeon & scenario bosses die too fast. The only alternatives I can think of are sims and dummy tests. SimC told me the stat weight in 5.3 was 0.58 for mastery, and on day 1 in 5.4 it would be 0.61. I already explained why I don't really trust it anymore atm. So dummy tests are the last option. I already did some tests after the last build came up, but the trinket RNG was just too... well, random. I'm going to copy my char once more with my current gear (no set bonuses) and buy two ICD trinkets to reduce RNG as much as possible.

    And yes, stating ilvl/world rank was unnecessary. I got more offended by the question than I should have. Please don't take everything I said in both the past two and the upcoming two weeks too serious (MSc thesis makes me act weird sometimes as of late).

  19. #19
    The DK community sure has changed since I quit.

    For people wondering though; just wait till the patch hits and then things will become more clear after the first two weeks. That's how it always works. There's not point in dwelling or jumping to conclusions until things hit a live setting.

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