Last edited by l33t; 2013-09-06 at 06:25 PM.
I can also say that 60 wipes can either be a ton or not many at all. Are the wipes farther and farther into the fight? Are they all on door 1? Is the same mechanic killing you over and over? For normal Horridon, if you're not getting to a new door every 5 or 6 pulls (minus stupid mistakes like someone prepulling or grabbing aggro on the pull), you need to change your strategy. For a boss like Heroic Animus, my guild is nearing 200 wipes, but each wipe things go a little smoother so it's not really an issue since we don't mind the wipes as they're mostly due to silly mistakes and not major strategy flaws.
For you guys, it looks like strategy might be an issue (no need to tank the boss so far away, allow both healers to help heal the whole raid, your tank can pop some cds on door 3 to lessen the load on healers).
If you can guesstimate, how long is it taking you between gates? He shouldn't be getting "a lot" of charges each gate, I think I usually count 2, maybe 3 most before the Dinomancer is dead, although this week for whatever reason we had people ignoring the orb for a few seconds.
If not then that is probably your whole issue. The player that gets targeted with charge needs to run to horridon so when he charges all he does is turn and cast double swipe instead of charging halfway across the room.
Also on another note, make sure your tank isn't standing in double swipe when it goes off, its not hard to move out of.
Wipes are consistently door 4 or God King now. Have been for the last few weeks.
10 mans guilds politic is the biggest fail of WoW.
GC : We try very hard not to monkey around with things just for the sake of changing, but it's easy to play the "I didn't see feedback on X, therefore there wasn't feedback on X" card.
The ultimate feminism move to liberate all the women from penis, will be EXCISION.
This is a hard question to answer. I wouldn't put more than 10 attempts in on a fight before changing something if it seemed like we weren't making progress. If attempts are getting noticeably better, I might stick with it for a while longer.
Wiping on normal Horridon, though? If I were the raid leader, wipe #10 would be a 5-10 minute break. I'd look over logs (on World of Logs) and see what was going wrong. If DPS were dying to melee swings, I'd note that and ask about it when the break was over. If that turned out to be an issue happening to multiple DPS, it's a tank problem and that tank would be replaced. If people were dying to lack of heals, I'd acknowledge that to our healers and try to find out what they're doing wrong. If things simply weren't dying fast enough, I'd look at what the DPS are doing and talk to them.
Either way, 10 wipes on normal Horridon without noticeable progress would probably lead to the raid being cancelled and replacements for the baddies being recruited. A lot of people like to talk about Horridon as if it's a complicated fight. It's not. You have the Horridon mechanics (double swipe, charge) to deal with, which everyone should have mastered within 5 attempts. You have nearly identical ground based AOEs on every door, which everyone should've mastered before coming to the raid, since it's the most common mechanic in the history of raiding. You have dispels on door one, interrupts and cleanses on door two, cleanses on door 3, and decurses on door 4. Finally, you have a short AOE healing phase. That's the fight.
If it takes more than 10-20 attempts for a raid group to get that down, then they are not cut out for normal mode raiding. They need to either focus on LFR (or Flex, in 5.4) or they need to restructure the raid. This applies even to casual guilds (I say this because I was in a casual guild in DS and we still managed to full clear heroic mode by the 15% debuff. One-day-a-week raiding is casual). If you want to clear content, you have to remove the obstacles in your raid group. If you aren't willing to do that, you're going to continue wiping until people quit. Either way, you have to make a sacrifice.
Alternatively, you could somehow encourage your players to actually read up on their class and train themselves to be good. Most players in guilds like those, however, are not even remotely willing to do that. So, once again, people would have to be replaced or everyone would have to settle for a shitty raid.
Now, instead of talking about what else we'd 'pay for,' Blizzard needs to be discussing ways to show some love to those who haven't unsubbed at every willy-nilly notion.