"US export regulations" dictating who can go to school in Sweden

[Hughes]

So, it is ok to discriminate, as long as it is not based on race. Cool.

Personality and the personal history mean nothing for us - only country you was born in (which you didn't choose), but hey we are ok with your race and skin color!

If it applies to security clearance, then I have no problem with them being picky.

[Crissi]

So, it is ok to discriminate, as long as it is not based on race. Cool.

Personality and the personal history mean nothing for us - only country you was born in (which you didn't choose), but hey we are ok with your race and skin color!

So lets ignore a potential source of security threat just because of equality! Then be surprised when such an approach backfires yay!

[Wildtree]

you do know that you basically just said that slavery would have been OK if you had a good reason?
also iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and if you want to be strict and complain about the entire region id like to remind you that Saudi arabia (where most of them were from, is a US ally) along with jordan and turkey and Egypt and more, seriously the entire zone there is pretty much all us allies except syria and iran.

No, what I said is - in other, and probably too masked words - how it is bullshit to drag great men's quotes into ANY topic.
No one has any clue as to what mister Martin Luther King would have thought about some topics and issues today, because he passed away already.
I find it a brutal insult against him, or any other famous person whose quotes getting dragged into debates times and again. As if anyone here had any ability to get into these people's mind and speak for them... Disrespectful!

[Deleted]

You're comparing the enslavement of people for economic gains to someone denied a education to work at a particular company for security reasons.

no im not im complaining about the following quote

Quite a stretch to put that MLK quote into it?
Why a stretch? Because MLK fought and stood for changes that are based on mishandling and abuse that goes on for hundreds of years.
The case at hand however has something to do with a case that happened 12 years ago, and the region where the terrorists are from is still in unrest and plenty of hate against the Western countries..

[Kellhound]

its a high school course i doubt there is anything secret going on.



i am to tired to argue with you, because the company wants to teach the kid but is not allowed to do so by the US, they are a company also known as a juridical person, as a person i have to obey the laws of my land, how far do you want this ? the US made the rule the company has no choice unless you think breaking the law is a valid choice.

They have a very simple choice, remove the ITAR technology, problem solved.

[THE Bigzoman]

no im not im complaining about the following quote

misread.

my bad

[Deleted]

No, what I said is - in other, and probably too masked words - how it is bullshit to drag great men's quotes into ANY topic.
No one has any clue as to what mister Martin Luther King would have thought about some topics and issues today, because he passed away already.
I find it a brutal insult against him, or any other famous person whose quotes getting dragged into debates times and again. As if anyone here had any ability to get into these people's mind and speak for them... Disrespectful!

that makes more sense, yeah it bugs me to when you do a reverse goodkin or whatever you can call it.

however my points about your 9/11 paranoia stands, also before you discount mooneye´s albrigth thing, the US started the Iran Iraq war and gave the Iraqis chemical weapons, you are not by any means above reproach due to some 9/11 justification.

[Cybran]

It was an estimate about children mortality in Iraq from 1990 - 1998. And it is completely unclear and unconfirmed

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/wo...n-reports.html

Several United Nations agencies, including F.A.O. and Unicef, have expressed concern about the damage being done to Iraqis, especially children, by United Nations economic sanctions. Two years ago, F.A.O. warned that Iraq risked widespread starvation.

The Security Council responded to these concerns earlier this year when it offer Iraq the opportunity to sell $2 billion worth of oil to purchase food and medicines under United Nations supervision, the second such offer in four years. Iraq rejected both as infringements of its sovereignty and has continued to demand an unconditional end to sanctions.

Their deaths were a consequence of US policy in that region. The decision to leave Saddam Hussein in charge and force him to accept the cheap oil from "Food for Oil" programs.

[Deleted]

They have a very simple choice, remove the ITAR technology, problem solved.

teh US has defined encryption technology as munitions, they are very Vague, on purpose i migth add to keep everything in scope so nothing gets past it.

also, to bend so muc to teh rules kinda clearly shows who is in charge proving my point i think.

which is the US decides and is thus to blame?

[Endus]

He's being denied education on the programme he wants to study at exactly because of his ethnicity.

If he'd been a Caucasian Iraqi citizen, he'd have been denied. Because it isn't about ethnicity, it's about nation of origin.

So, it is ok to discriminate, as long as it is not based on race. Cool.

Personality and the personal history mean nothing for us - only country you was born in (which you didn't choose), but hey we are ok with your race and skin color!

It depends on how you use the word "discrimination". Security clearance is absolutely about figuring out who is a potential security risk and who is not. That involves "discrimination", in the sense of evaluating relevant factors.

Nation of origin just happens to be such a factor. There's plenty of others. Yes, if you determine that someone is too high a security risk to give clearance to, it's not unfair to deny them that clearance. And coming from a nation that the country is at war with is absolutely a factor to consider.

If there hadn't been a war with Iraq, it wouldn't have been an issue. They aren't being blanket-denied because Iraqis are "bad", they're being denied because of the current hostilities between the two nations.

If it makes you feel better, that's the real reason; that there are hostilities between the two nations. Not that he's Iraqi, that Iraq is one of the nations the US was at war with.

That's why being German won't get you flat-out denied; because the US isn't at war with Germany any more, because WWII ended decades ago and the nations are currently friendly. But they absolutely did deny Germans security clearances during WWII, for the same reasons.

[Kellhound]

teh US has defined encryption technology as munitions, they are very Vague, on purpose i migth add to keep everything in scope so nothing gets past it.

also, to bend so muc to teh rules kinda clearly shows who is in charge proving my point i think.

which is the US decides and is thus to blame?

Well, if Sweden invented the technology they could control it. The US has decided to let the tech leave our borders but put restrictions on its use. It is simple, if you don't like the rules, don't use the product!
And I know what is in ITAR, I have been in avionics for many years. I also know why most of it is covered.

[Jackmoves]

This problem is partly because our school system is quite intervened with the private sector. Many schools cooperate with private companies and for the most part it is posetive for everyone involved, it gives students skills, knowledge and insight into companies they might work for in the future, and it can provide companies with future employees that knows how they operate.

This guy got the short end of the stick because of his birth place though and that sucks for him. I hope he can be provided with a good substitut.

This isn't a course btw, this is his a 3-year long upper secondary school program. So just choosing 1 different course won't do shit to help him. Had he finished this program with decent grades he'd stand a good shot at getting a job for them afterwards... but born in the wrong country. Sometimes life isn't fair.

Seems like a smart kid since he got admitted though so I'm sure he'll be fine.

[KingHorse]

He's being denied education on the programme he wants to study at exactly because of his ethnicity.

Wrong and wrong.

He's completely allowed to pursue and obtain an education in the exact field he's after. Just not from this company. And it's not because of his ethnicity. So while I understand that you want to hate the US for the situation, you're going to have to dig harder for a reason, because your current reason is mostly phantasy.

[Cybran]

That's why being German won't get you flat-out denied; because the US isn't at war with Germany any more, because WWII ended decades ago and the nations are currently friendly. But they absolutely did deny Germans security clearances during WWII, for the same reasons.

Wernher von Braun and his team of war criminals were hired pretty quickly though.

[Tierbook]

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/12/01/wo...n-reports.html



Their deaths were a consequence of US policy in that region. The decision to leave Saddam Hussein in charge and force him to accept the cheap oil from "Food for Oil" programs.

you say that like the US would be buying that oil, it wouldn't necessarily go to the US any UN nation could have bought it

[Wildtree]

that makes more sense, yeah it bugs me to when you do a reverse goodkin or whatever you can call it.

however my points about your 9/11 paranoia stands, also before you discount mooneye´s albrigth thing, the US started the Iran Iraq war and gave the Iraqis chemical weapons, you are not by any means above reproach due to some 9/11 justification.

I've always been critical about the USA's involvement in the middle east.
I am shocked about 9/11, and I don't want it to repeat, and yet I've always said (of course not here and yet so far) how what happened on 9/11 can be summarized into
"you get what you've asked for". I am not naive enough, not to see how that attack wasn't an attack out of retaliation.
Why I ripped Mooneye's video link apart was for the title. Albright got enough fire for that reaction of hers. It's old news. She said that in 1996..
And the dead children are a horrible thing.... But, it is still not a thing to pin on the USA.... If anything, then pin it on all of us. The USA and the EU countries. Almost all of our countries took part on that embargo.

All in all, I don't have problem with criticism. I have a huge problem however with singling out scapegoats, for the sake of it. There are a lot of fucked up things the US took part in, and still does. But blind blame is just that, blind blame... And it doesn't help the cause at all.
I too like the US changing things I dislike. But that won't happen if the accusations are rather null and void, like the case of this thread. At some point no one's gonna listen anymore.

Criticism, yes. Anti-Americanism, no.

[Elegiac]

Wernher von Braun and his team of war criminals were hired pretty quickly though.

Your point being what?

[TheGravemind]

Wernher von Braun and his team of war criminals were hired pretty quickly though.

They had a specialized need that the United States required. It's the same right now, too, actually. Anyone from any country can get a top secret U.S. security clearance as long as they have talent/expertise (meaning years of study at, say, a top academic institution) in a field that is in high-demand by the U.S. military. We did this for surgeons/doctors abroad following the Second Gulf War, for example. It's not black and white.

[Tierbook]

Your point being what?

America was the only country to use German scientists after WW2... of course

[Wildtree]

Wernher von Braun and his team of war criminals were hired pretty quickly though.

First of, Braun and his team were never war criminals. Get your history facts straight. Chances were high that Braun would have been executed had the Allies not won the war.. He was imprisoned for treason 1 year before the end of the war, and only re-instated in his position after Speer guaranteed for his observation and that he cannot do any harm, to which Hitler agreed for until he had no further use for him anymore.
That's proven from documents captured by the Allied forces.
Other than that, you trying to say Germans today are the same as the Germans in the Nazi regime?