"US export regulations" dictating who can go to school in Sweden

[Urti]

You can't consider this nation bashing by any means. You have to admit, people being upset that the U.S can simply override their laws and culture is normal. By all intents and purposes that kid is a Swede. He is a Swedish citizen. His country has certain obligations towards him, legal, cultural and moral. It is a problem when they have to break their own laws and cultural norms, and deny the rights of one of their own citizens in order to placate the U.S.

This is the same reason why so many are so upset about Guantanamo Bay and Extraordinary Rendition. That for example pisses me off to no end, and I am offended that any sovereign nation is willing to cooperate with the U.S in the kidnapping, torture and abuse of its own citizens or citizens of other countries, without even as much as any legal oversight. This is one aspect of the U.S War on Terror that 95% of the rest of the world didn't sign up for. Hell even Americans didn't sign up for this crap.

The US isn't overriding shit! This is a UK company and a Swedish school! Not one US agent ever said they "had" to do this, the players involved voluntarily co-opted US trade regulations to make things go smoother for them internationally. Stop hating the US and start asking what it was in the kids background that flagged his security check. I personally know Iraqi-americans who work in middle-to-upper levels of military contractor firms, one designing ballistic armor. So the idea that he was denied for "Just being born in Iraq" doesn't sound legit AT ALL.

[Gospels]

Oh, please another "we hate the U.S. thread" lol are there not rules about nation bashing or are the mods on holiday?

Where was your furor and need to point out the injustices in these stories??

"China Starves and Denies Education to Ten-Year-Old" http://newsblaze.com/story/201304160.../topstory.html

"Russian lawmakers say no more US adoptions" http://www.france24.com/en/20121221-...tsky-act-putin

"Taliban Vow to Kill the Pakistani Girl They Shot for Going to School if She Survives" http://news.yahoo.com/taliban-vow-ki...131916069.html

YES America is the WORST country in the world, please either point out every countires stupidity or none at all

[Cybran]

Coming from Mister "The EU is Satan Incarnate!"? Hilarity.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...dispute/page13

What is the point of this thread for example? It has a solid 10 pages of solid circle jerking, mocking Spain and other military dick measuring. But it was never locked, while this thread will be locked instantly. What is that other then double standards?

[Elegiac]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...dispute/page13

What is the point of this thread for example? It has a solid 10 pages of solid circle jerking, mocking Spain and other military dick measuring. But it was never locked, while this thread will be locked instantly. What is that other then double standards?

If it were locked instantly then it would have been locked after the first few posts, by definition.

[Rukentuts]

YES America is the WORST country in the world, please either point out every countires stupidity or none at all

Except in this case there's nothing bad at all.

They just want workers that will be able to get security clearance, which requires you, your family, and your friends to not be threats to national security.

[Nygma7]

Which is why I have a problem with it. They don't know he's a security risk, they just assume so because of where he was born.

Actually, they're probably not assuming anything.

Like apparently everyone else in this thread, I have no idea what exactly the rules involved are or how they're applied. But you're acting like the full weight and attention of the US government bore down on this kid, frowned darkly, and personally denied him an education.


The US has very strict export restrictions on military or dual-use technology. I know, I used to work for a defense firm. Transferring data, knowledge, training, equipment, etc to certain countries or CITIZENS of those countries is prohibited. Actually, transferring weapons tech to ANY foreign country is prohibited without license, so if you want to email technical data to a US colleague who works in a foreign division, it still needs to go through special channels. (Which leads to slides like "REMEMBER - CANADA IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY!" on yearly ITAR training presentations.)


If this company deals at all with sensitive US information (which could be as seemingly benign as jet engines, an area China, for instance, struggles with), ITAR restrictions may be what's preventing the company from hiring a citizen of a restricted country.

[Urti]

Actually, they're probably not assuming anything.

Like apparently everyone else in this thread, I have no idea what exactly the rules involved are or how they're applied. But you're acting like the full weight and attention of the US government bore down on this kid, frowned darkly, and personally denied him an education.


The US has very strict export restrictions on military or dual-use technology. I know, I used to work for a defense firm. Transferring data, knowledge, training, equipment, etc to certain countries or CITIZENS of those countries is prohibited. Actually, transferring weapons tech to ANY foreign country is prohibited without license, so if you want to email technical data to a US colleague who works in a foreign division, it still needs to go through special channels. (Which leads to slides like "REMEMBER - CANADA IS A FOREIGN COUNTRY!" on yearly ITAR training presentations.)


If this company deals at all with sensitive US information (which could be as seemingly benign as jet engines, an area China, for instance, struggles with), ITAR restrictions may be what's preventing the company from hiring a citizen of a restricted country.

This guy gets it. Congrats on the single best post in this thread.

[Kellhound]

You can't consider this nation bashing by any means. You have to admit, people being upset that the U.S can simply override their laws and culture is normal. By all intents and purposes that kid is a Swede. He is a Swedish citizen. His country has certain obligations towards him, legal, cultural and moral. It is a problem when they have to break their own laws and cultural norms, and deny the rights of one of their own citizens in order to placate the U.S.

This is the same reason why so many are so upset about Guantanamo Bay and Extraordinary Rendition. That for example pisses me off to no end, and I am offended that any sovereign nation is willing to cooperate with the U.S in the kidnapping, torture and abuse of its own citizens or citizens of other countries, without even as much as a hint of legal oversight. This is one aspect of the U.S War on Terror that 95% of the rest of the world didn't sign up for. Hell even Americans didn't sign up for this crap.

The US has the right, as do all countries, to restrict how exported technology, information, and items are used post exportation. The company knew about the restrictions when it chose to use said technology, Sweden knew about said restriction when they allowed the company to teach in the country. There are no surprises here.

[Gospels]

OP seems to switch his thinking on stereotyping people from other countries when it comes to immigration in Sweden, see old posts:

"Immigrants are 7 times more likely than a Swede to be on welfare. 2012 57% of social assistance went to immigrants, who make up 20% of the countries population. No, majority of those who receive it are immigrants, not Swedes."

"Somalis stand out with their unemployment rate of 82%."

"No, they're not more likely to commit crimes than immigrants. Take my previous example, 99.7%~ immigrants never commit sexual crimes. 99.96% swedes never commit sexual crimes.

If then Swedes and immigrants were at 50/50 in population it would mean that you are 6-7 times more likely to be the victim of a sexual crime where the perpetrator is an immigrant rather than a swede. That is unacceptable. Even now you're more likely to be the victim of a sexual crime where the perpetrator is an immigrant because they make up 20% of the population but yet they commit 30% more sexual crimes than native Swedes."

Too funny

[Kraenen]

Another "we hate the USA" thread. Joy.

Get some goddamn perspective, both of you.

you know posts like these dont really add anything to the conversation...like they don't actually educate or give "perspective". you're just putting them down and leaving.

[KingHorse]

Which is why I have a problem with it. They don't know he's a security risk, they just assume so because of where he was born.

The concept of security seems to be just absolutely kicking your ass. Security people deal in absolutes. You are either (A) already been thoroughly investigated, followed, tested, and are now a little bit trustworthy, at least with the stuff that isn't too sensitive, of (B) a fucking threat.

If you assume people are fine, you are not secure. If you assume people are fucking dangerous, you may be a dick, but you're going to be relatively safe. I'll be a safe dick over here.

[Rukentuts]

you know posts like these dont really add anything to the conversation...like they don't actually educate or give "perspective". you're just putting them down and leaving.

Except...he didn't leave.

[Deleted]

Nobody has made a value judgment over whether or not it is 'ok' to discriminate.

What is being contested is your blaming of the US for this rather than the British company operating in Sweden who chooses to abide by US regulations.

when chosing to not abide by US reg means you cant do buisiness anymore, its not in any way shape or form a "choice"

[Rukentuts]

when chosing to not abide by US reg means you cant do buisiness anymore, its not in any way shape or form a "choice"

So businesses can't choose their clientele?

Because they can do business all they want. Just not with the US Government as a client.

[Elegiac]

So businesses can't choose their clientele?

Because they can do business all they want. Just not with the US Government as a client.

I choose to set standards of business which exclude Wal-Mart because they abuse their employees. My god, I'm so discriminatory!

[Cybran]

I choose to set standards of business which exclude Wal-Mart because they abuse their employees. My god, I'm so discriminatory!

Except in this case it's ethnic discrimination.

[Elegiac]

Except in this case it's ethnic discrimination.

It's not, it's actually political discrimination in the exact sense of that word; he's being vetted based on his citizenship.

[Deleted]

US foreign policy often involves Genocide and instigating civil wars, so you are getting off easy.

Cybran at his finest. I can't write the insults that you deserve for this line.

[Endus]

Except in this case it's ethnic discrimination.

No, it isn't. He's not being excluded because he's Arabic, he's being excluded because he was born in Iraq. It has nothing to do with his ethnicity, it has to do with his birth citizenship and country of origin.

If he was black, white, or Asian, and had been born in Iraq to parents who were ethnically the same as him, but Iraqi of citizenship, he'd be excluded for the same reason. Just like someone whose ancestors were all from Iraq originally, but whose family had been in the US for the past five generations, wouldn't be excluded.

Because his ethnicity doesn't matter. His citizenship and country of origin do.

[Deleted]

It's not, it's actually political discrimination in the exact sense of that word; he's being vetted based on his citizenship.

He doesn't have double citizenships, he's only got Swedish citizenship, no?