Thread: Spec for 5.4

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  1. #61
    How's the legendary cloak treating you guys so far? It made up about 5-6% of my DPS on single-target back on the PTR, but I didn't get the chance to do any extensive raid testing. So is it still doing around that in SoO?

  2. #62
    I did the first 7 bosses today, all as Survival. Changes I would make for next week on those 7 would be going BM (or as least Blink Strikes) on Immerseus and Sha of Pride.
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  3. #63
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    Why BM on Immerseus? I felt my target switch damage was a tiny bit higher than it would be as BM. The adds would be dead by the time your pet got to them. Their health pools (at least on Normal and Flex) are TINY.

    Agreed on Sha. With our positioning the adds were basically stacked on the boss' ass until they died. It was like a BM wet dream. Survival did okay, but BM's AoE in a situation like that is undoubtedly higher.

    I can't say for sure on the cloak damage (WoL not working for SoO yet) but yeah, 4-8% seems about right, depending on number of targets etc. It was pretty noticeable.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    Why BM on Immerseus? I felt my target switch damage was a tiny bit higher than it would be as BM. The adds would be dead by the time your pet got to them. Their health pools (at least on Normal and Flex) are TINY.

    Agreed on Sha. With our positioning the adds were basically stacked on the boss' ass until they died. It was like a BM wet dream. Survival did okay, but BM's AoE in a situation like that is undoubtedly higher.

    I can't say for sure on the cloak damage (WoL not working for SoO yet) but yeah, 4-8% seems about right, depending on number of targets etc. It was pretty noticeable.
    Dash + Blink Strikes + you might want to stand closer to adds as they spawn. But yea, they die quick. Depending on how many spawn near me, I can get off like 2 globals on each one. I feel the bursty-ness would be much better on Immerseus as well. But I might just rock Blink Strikes as Survival, Amoc seems damn useless after the boss starts reforming at sub 50%.

    Though I haven't really touched BM this patch yet so my thoughts may be for naught.

    For Sha, did you reposition your pet on an add or just leave on the boss to cleave?
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  5. #65
    We stacked behind the boss, though out of range from cleaving off the boss, so I just /petattacked into them, I also took barrage for this one. I think I did ~290k

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  6. #66
    Did Galakras as BM with Fervor/BS/Barrage and it felt really strong for that encounter.

  7. #67
    For Immers, SV really wouldn't be viable (atleast on normal).. all you need is a couple globals for the globules which you can do with either spec just fine.. (Both would need to grab ToTH cuz DB wouldn't see full uptime) You could even solo two quadrants if you're up for a challenge.. throw down a frost trap (YAY WE HAZ UTILITYZ!) on a cluster and send your pet in with beast cleave and you can concuss and solo a couple on your side.. But that's neither here nor there.. Main reason for BM would be for the boss.. He stays up for veeery very short amounts of time and SV is a ramp up spec.. esp later on.. BM is perfect for that with a 10s BW burn.. BS/TotH/GT

    Went SV for protectors cuz they're not really clumped up (much like early council).. But if you have some solid multi dotters in your raid, BM would be good. AMoC/TotH/Barrage

    Noru, SV might be better cuz of all the target switching constantly.. AMoC/TotH/GT

    Tried BM initially for Sha but even with /petattack, it takes a bit sometimes for the pet to get to the adds.. and they don't have a lot of health in the first place.. Plus you have to switch to the big add frequently.. So I went SV for it.. played out better.. AMoC/TotH/GT

    Gala is like the absolute perfect fight for BM.. why would anyone go SV.. 1.2 mil+ dps burst on the first pack and really high sustained as well.. Plus amazing burst for the demo's with BW (SV again has a ramp up time) People underestimate beast cleave.. it is amazing. BS/Barrage/Fervor.

    IJ is pure single target on normal so obv BM.. esp with the knockbacks and whatnot.. BS/DB/GT

    dark shamans.. They're stacked initially so you can go ham with beast cleave.. after that you just need to position your pet properly to burn down the slimes.. BM is far superior. BS/Barrage/TotH.

    Nazgrim BM is def better since your pet can continue to attack him during Def stance. BS/GT/DBorTotH

    Malkorok is again pure single target, so BM.

    Spoils.. This depends on how many other ranged you have in your group (more of a concern for 10 mans).. If you have more melee in your group then you will constantly have to switch to the sparks in the mogu section.. Which sucks for BM.. So go SV in that case (which I had to do).. But if you have decent ranged, then you can focus on the boxes in which case, BM is amazing (beast cleave).

    Thok, BM is much better if you can follow the boss around properly. If you are the only person who can dispel the enrage on the jailer and you have to switch to him, then go SV with AMoC/GT/TotH

    Siegecrafter, in a 10m, you can only solo a conveyer belt if you save BW.. SV would be pushing it pretty close as it has a ramp up time. If you aren't assigned to the belt (frost dk's are ridiculously op for this) then BM for sure since it's pure single target at that point, with the odd crawler mine (which other classes can handle easily).

    Paragons depends on a lot of factors. Role/order of bosses etc.. But you do need on demand burst for multiple occasions, so BM would be the better choice. And they don't share health and the others heal to full once you kill one (like protectors in ToES) so cleaving/multi dotting is useless.

    Garrosh.. Depends on what you are assigned to do. If you are the engineer/weapon bitch, then SV. If you get lucky and can get out of it then BM shits all over SV's face.. As SV, on the initial pull when there are 6 or so adds around the boss, I was using TotH and going ham on aoe, and always ended up with 300-400k dps.. SV aoe is horrible. Went BM, 1 mill dps. GG. Plus due to the phase changes and (depending on whether you get unlucky with hopelessness buff etc) you need on demand burst, which is where BW helps alot. SV might be better for P3 tho since you can serpent spread on all the adds that spawn to help the raid kill them faster.. So use those factors to determine which spec to go with.
    Last edited by Saoron; 2013-09-13 at 02:25 PM.

  8. #68
    I did the first 12 last night as BM and probably wouldn't go SV for any lol. Hunter's performed well, but who knows how that will look once everyone has their cloak

  9. #69
    You guys didn't have your pet despawn a lot on the first boss?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I did the first 7 bosses today, all as Survival. Changes I would make for next week on those 7 would be going BM (or as least Blink Strikes) on Immerseus and Sha of Pride.
    did you not have problems with your pet despawning?

  11. #71
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    So... despite all the hype SV has been getting, it seems most US hunters that have already had a chance to raid feel BM is still the superior spec for most or all fights. I at least am very sad to hear that. Maybe it'll change with T16 4p.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteadee View Post
    You guys didn't have your pet despawn a lot on the first boss?
    Not once, but having heard of the problem I stayed close to the boss on my section of the platform.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Beace View Post
    So... despite all the hype SV has been getting, it seems most US hunters that have already had a chance to raid feel BM is still the superior spec for most or all fights. I at least am very sad to hear that. Maybe it'll change with T16 4p.
    I believe that SV was getting hyped because of the 4 piece, so it should change something.

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  14. #74
    its no wonder that BM is now better then surv especially when leg cloak seems to proc more often than surv (BM average 18% vs surv's 7%). had change to test which spec was better overall in flex mode for first 4 boss and BM seems to be pretty close in dps at aoe situations against surv's dps :S

  15. #75
    I'm not sure why BM has been considered weaker in AOE than survival for so long. Ever since they buffed beast cleave from 50% to 75% pet damage in 5.3 BM has been 'at least' as good as survival for AOE damage in current gear, if not quite significantly better. If you never tried it against the big trash pull at the beginning of TOT or against the pulls before Iron Qon, you've been missing out.

    The reason is because BM AOE scales MUCH better with cooldowns and haste (which was our go-to stat for TOT and is still quite good now). Survival doesn't have a bestial wrath OR rabid equivalent and additional haste from gear or rapid fire only allowed for a few more multi-shots plus serpent spread procs, but serpent sting itself doesn't scale with haste. On the other hand, pet damage does scale with haste in terms of attack speed AND focus (and more focus = more wild hunt basic attacks for even more damage), plus rabid and bestial wrath. Keep in mind for BM AOE you would want to use fervor for the focus to both you AND your pet, unlike survival which would want TOTH.

    It's possible once we gear for crit again survival will start to catch back up, but considering how poor mastery is for survival single target we'll still keep a lot more haste than mastery for that, which will hurt survival in AOE.
    Last edited by Thursley; 2013-09-11 at 08:08 PM.

  16. #76
    [QUOTE=Thursley;22366461]I'm not sure why BM has been considered weaker in AOE than survival for so long. Ever since they buffed beast cleave from 50% to 75% pet damage in 5.3 BM has been 'at least' as good as survival for AOE damage in current gear, if not quite significantly better. If you never tried it against the big trash pull at the beginning of TOT or against the pulls before Iron Qon, you've been missing out.

    well i don't know about hc tot aoe dps difference but i've never seen BM pulling better aoe than surv in actual boss fight, trash pulls is whole different story then since any class is able to pull big numbers on them

  17. #77
    One other thing I forgot: they raised the AOE damage cap to 20 mobs from 10 in patch 5.2. 10 mobs could sometimes be hit in boss fights which would make survival better since so much of its AOE ignores the cap, but you almost never see more than 20 mobs getting AOE'd at once which removes the benefit from survival. The differences between 10 and 25 man may also change things a bit but I'm not sure why they would.

    The trash pulls are just easy ways to see for yourself. Speaking about 25 heroic, BM does better against Horridon, Durumu, Twin Consorts, and Lei Shen according to raidbots, all parses. Beast Mastery is even superior on the troll council which is more of a multi-dot fight than an AOE fight but things are grouped up enough of the time for beast cleave to be powerful. On Tortos survival is better because the bats have to fly down into range and hunters should be attacking turtles most of the time anyway, but survival can cheaply apply serpent sting to the bats and let it tick. On Megaera my pet always bugged out so I had to play survival, but BM should be fine for that too if your pet didn't. Survival might be a little better if your group doesn't group ALL the wyrms up quickly and survival can get serpent sting on multiple packs.

    Also, in 5.4 beast cleave is only getting better with a 10 yard damage radius instead of 8, which reduces the impact of issues with pet management. If BM benefits more than survival from the legendary cloak proc, either due to a higher proc rate from base RPPM chance/focus fire/more rapid fire from 2 piece set bonus or because of bestial wrath buffing its damage (it's physical damage so survival mastery doesn't buff it), BM only gets better and better.
    Last edited by Thursley; 2013-09-11 at 08:34 PM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I did the first 7 bosses today, all as Survival. Changes I would make for next week on those 7 would be going BM (or as least Blink Strikes) on Immerseus and Sha of Pride.
    Why? The adds have so little health that having your pet hit them would be redundant.

  19. #79
    Why would anyone go Surv for the second boss? Beast Cleave crushes those adds that spawn (like 5+ or w/e, didn't count) and have low HP, along with it being better since it's mostly a ST fight. Shrug, to each their own I suppose. That also includes the first four, no point to go Surv on any of them.

  20. #80
    I don't see reason why go SV on any of them (did first 5).

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