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  1. #21
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    It isn't really down to anything American. What you're doing is asking the other person to make a lifetime romantic commitment to you. You're already prepared for that kind of commitment; that's why you're asking. When they say "no", that's pretty much it for the relationship, because it's demonstrated a clear imbalance in how the two of you feel about each other.

    That's what refusing a proposal says. At best, it's saying that you're happy now but you want to leave your options open for leaving at any point in the future with a minimum of fuss. That's not really the kind of sentiment that leads to your relationship continuing on.

    Frankly, I don't understand people who have their proposal refused and don't break up.

  2. #22
    Another fun fact:
    Kids whos parents are divorced rather not get married compared to kids who's parents are still together.

    More ontopic:
    Yeah ofcourse if someone blatantly says no. If someone says: "Hmmm, we could but we should save money for the wedding first", then itd be different.
    But people not that smart nowadays. Wants shineys. Not big shiney? NO!

  3. #23
    Because Men propose, they make themselves most vulnerable than any other time other than being baby. No, is like a sharp dagger the rips out your heart, and you want to get as far away as you can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    And I take exception to the whole romanticization of marriage given that attribute tends to result in a lot of hardship and unnecessary litigation.
    I thought only U.S. had so much litigation. Nice to know we are not alone.

  4. #24
    Too many people pop the question of marriage when they feel that their partner is slipping away. It's an act of desperation rather than romance. The other partner just isn't feeling it but you aren't ready to give them up. This kind of situation most often happens only a few months after the relationship has started, or several years into a stale relationship. It's more used as a trap to try and get the other person to commit but often ends up just blowing up in their face when they get rejected. Which admittedly, is probably ultimately for the best, since they will be better off finding someone else.

    That little leap of faith is romantic, but popping the question without having discussed future plans of wedding is a big no no. If they seem plussed to the idea of marriage, go ahead and take that leap of faith. Never pop the question as an act of desperation to save your relationship. You may think it's the romantic spark you need to get a failing one back on track, but it's the exact opposite, and will more often than not force your partner to break up with you.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiift View Post
    Another fun fact:
    Kids whos parents are divorced rather not get married compared to kids who's parents are still together.

    More ontopic:
    Yeah ofcourse if someone blatantly says no. If someone says: "Hmmm, we could but we should save money for the wedding first", then itd be different.
    But people not that smart nowadays. Wants shineys. Not big shiney? NO!
    If you're suggesting to save money for a wedding, then you've obviously said "yes". You two don't start saving up money for a wedding BEFORE deciding on if you want to get married to them. :P

    When you propose, it's not saying "Lets get married in the next 30 minutes" - you know. People can propose a year before their wedding. (just helped do up somebody's wedding invite they're sending out to friends, and their wedding isn't until next June.)
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    If you're suggesting to save money for a wedding, then you've obviously said "yes". You two don't start saving up money for a wedding BEFORE deciding on if you want to get married to them. :P

    When you propose, it's not saying "Lets get married in the next 30 minutes" - you know. People can propose a year before their wedding. (just helped do up somebody's wedding invite they're sending out to friends, and their wedding isn't until next June.)
    You could always start a wedding fund, and if things go south, cash out. Just make sure it's in your name!
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  7. #27
    A lot of proposals shown in media are driven by hormones or fear, and make for dramatic moments and really shitty decisions in actual practice.

    "Will you marry me?" is, for some people, their way of saying "Prove you love me." You shouldn't propose to guilt or corner someone, but that sort of behavior is considered romantic for some reason.

    Endus' explanation seems to be the one that's guided my life, as well as those I know. The question isn't so much about the wedding so much as what comes afterward. Plus, at least here, there are concerns about financial and legal issues that marriage turns into a straight forward affair. My best friend and I had both discussed with our spouses ahead of time the intention to remain partners for life.

    Somehow, though, this seems more of a question about why people would want to get married (what's the importance of marriage) rather than "Why would you break up after rejecting a marriage proposal?"
    "Bananas, like people, sometimes look different when they are naked." Grace Helbig

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    What you're doing is asking the other person to make a lifetime romantic commitment to you. You're already prepared for that kind of commitment; that's why you're asking. When they say "no", that's pretty much it for the relationship, because it's demonstrated a clear imbalance in how the two of you feel about each other.
    So a person can't want to spend the rest of their life with someone but still not get married?

  9. #29
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyri View Post
    So a person can't want to spend the rest of their life with someone but still not get married?
    If you're going to be together for the rest of your life, there are advantages and rights you should want to have, and you need to get married to have them. Not just tax benefits, I mean things like the right to make end-of-life decisions if, god forbid, something terrible happens to one of you. Or inheritance, if one of you dies without a will.

    If you aren't married, your partner can't be a part of that stuff, without fancy legal jiggery that isn't 100%. That's why gay marriage has been such a big damn deal.

    This doesn't have to have anything to do with religion, or with a big ceremony, or something; even just getting it taken care of by a justice of the peace is fine.

    Does this mean you can't stay together forever without getting married? No. But those who do are missing out on some pretty significant rights that they should have. And what reason do you have NOT to get married? If you're planning to be together forever, there's no downside. There's a miniscule up-front cost for the license, and the tax benefits in the first year typically pay for that. Beyond that, it's all good.

    Unless you're secretly thinking it ISN'T forever, and you don't want to have to deal with divorce proceedings or splitting your communally owned stuff and so on. If you want to preserve your ability to just say "fuck it, I'm done" and pack your bags and leave, by all means, don't get married. But if that's the case, you aren't making a marriage-style commitment; you aren't in that relationship for better or for worse. You're preserving your exit plan. Making sure you can get out easily isn't a confidence-inspiring move.

  10. #30
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It isn't really down to anything American. What you're doing is asking the other person to make a lifetime romantic commitment to you. You're already prepared for that kind of commitment; that's why you're asking. When they say "no", that's pretty much it for the relationship, because it's demonstrated a clear imbalance in how the two of you feel about each other.
    Is it not possible you're just not ready right then, but you still know it to be a real possibility in the future?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Is it not possible you're just not ready right then, but you still know it to be a real possibility in the future?
    ...if it's 15 years down the road and "you're not ready then" - there's a problem as probably ANY issue you could think of would've been worked out by then. :P
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  12. #32
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyri View Post
    So a person can't want to spend the rest of their life with someone but still not get married?
    Pretty much. As much as anyone wants to argue otherwise, if you want to be with a certain someone for the rest of your life, there's no reason NOT to get married. The legal benefits totally outweigh any reason that doesn't revolve around wanting you to be your own. Wanting to "be with someone" but not being willing to commit to it is pretty much saying "something better might come along." And really, I wouldn't want to stay in a relationship with someone with that attitude.
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  13. #33
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Greenbean View Post

    Is this just something I've gathered from watching movies with my girlfriend or do you Americans actually have this as tradition?
    I'm thinking, sure, you got rejected. Perhaps it's not the perfect timing in your lives together to get engaged and then married due to your personal financial situation or career choices and all, but come on, break up? Instead of waiting for the right moment? Without even clarifying WHY they break up, they just go separate ways. I'm curious as to why this is happening over there or IF it actually is. ^^, I've seen it too many times in movies, and I've heard about it one time too many to think it's just movie culture!
    Barring a few instances of couples falling crazily head over heels in love and marrying quickly, most proposals tend to come after the couple has been together and/or cohabitating for considerable enough time for both people to gauge whether or not they want to live with each other for the rest of their lives. This "waiting for the right moment" belief is a hopeless romantic's wishful thinking. There is no "wrong moment" to declare your love for your partner and your desire to take it further. He/She either feels the same way or he/she doesn't. Additionally, if you wait too long to ask because you're trying to gauge the right moment, 9 times out of 10, your partner will take this as a fear of commitment and have an exit strategy prepared if not being executed already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...if it's 15 years down the road and "you're not ready then" - there's a problem as probably ANY issue you could think of would've been worked out by then. :P
    Well sure, but did anyone specify an obscenely long period?

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Greenbean View Post
    So breakup due to poor judgement?
    Considering that a colossal misfire such as a rejected proposition can speak volumes about the different wavelengths the two people are at at the time, attempting to repair hurt feelings and salvage the relationship is really only delaying the inevitable breakup. A clean break is the simplest and the least painful resolution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  16. #36
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    It's just America OP. We are the only nation who go through marriage half heartedly. No other country does this. You did the right thing by focusing squarely on the US only.

    Typical US bashing thread is typical.
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  17. #37
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Is it not possible you're just not ready right then, but you still know it to be a real possibility in the future?
    And how long should the other wait for you to be ready to reciprocate that willingness to commit at the next level? That's a rather selfish and unfair expectation considering that if the roles were reversed and you were ready to take it to the next level but your partner never pops the question, you'd already have one foot out the door and looking for someone else to be with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    You could always start a wedding fund, and if things go south, cash out. Just make sure it's in your name!
    NEVER MAKE A JOINT ACCOUNT! Speaking from experience
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  18. #38
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    I think it would depend upon the people involved and exactly why one party isn't ready, but communication exists and you don't have to leave them hanging indefinitely.

  19. #39
    Pandaren Monk Ronnosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    I think it would depend upon the people involved and exactly why one party isn't ready, but communication exists and you don't have to leave them hanging indefinitely.
    Agreed. If communication weren't a problem in the relationship, this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulqiorra View Post
    If you equate playing WoW to having electricity, I feel very, very happy for the rest of the world, as that kind of thinking will, inevitably, lead to the eradication of your seed from the gene pool.
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  20. #40
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Is it not possible you're just not ready right then, but you still know it to be a real possibility in the future?
    "Getting married is a real possibility in the future" is what you feel when you get engaged. You can always break off an engagement, if you feel you need to.

    I think you're talking about "I like you, but I don't LOVE you", in which case, no, it isn't gonna work out. And you're better off breaking his heart rather than stringing him along (gender used only because, traditionally, it's the dude who proposes; feel free to switch it around), because you don't feel the same way about him as he clearly does about you.

    It's also entirely possible that he's jumping the gun and asking you way too early because he's insecure, and that's just another reason to say "no" and move on.

    And if you come back at me with a "no, I totes DO love him, but I just don't want to get tied down/get locked in/etc", then I'd argue that you don't, in fact, love him. You're keeping your options open in case someone better comes along. That's not something you do when you're in love.

    The one exception is if you have serious commitment issues for some reason, but my response then would be 1> get therapy (seriously, it's good stuff, I'm not harshing here), and 2> stop dating people seriously until you work that stuff out. Nor is there anything wrong with just casually dating people and never comitting; I'm not arguing that everyone should be on the marriage-track. Just that if one of you is, and the other isn't, that'll ruin the relationship.

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