Are there no more MMOs with actual DPS rotations instead of these priority systems?

[Nobleshield]

I'm curious if any MMO still exists where they don't have these "priority queues" like WoW currently has and other games have embraced as well. To give an idea of what I mean, I absolutely loved the old "969" Paladin rotation from Wrath; I thought it was amazing to have such a simple rotation that let me focus on everything else. Another example would be early RIFT in the days of having 1-2 huge spam macros that you hit over and over again.

Nowdays it seems everything has priorities, instead of flat rotations; WoW changed it, Rift has started to change it, FF14 from what I've read has a priority system, SWTOR has a priority system, you get the idea. So let me ask, is there even an MMO out there that DOESN'T do this and has stuck with the idea of fairly simplistic rotations instead of a priority queue for everything that tends to feel like you're playing piano or typing with the keyboard?

Genuinely curious.

[RohanV]

FF14 is a rotation system. Basically, each ability buffs the next ability in the chain, causing it to be the best choice. As far as I've seen, chains are 2 to 3 abilities long. As well, the GCD is 2.5s base, slowing things down even further.

[Caliph]

i don't know. other games at least change it up alittle. in gw2 you make your rotation or priority by how you switch weapons, and how you have to dodge and stuff. Wow could've kept a rotation system or improved this corny priority system by implementing snapshotting. Meaning your dots, bleeds, etc snapshot all of the haste, int, agi, and other effects automatically capturing the proc. in this way instead of us having to redot, or reapply stuff we can continue in our rotations. Now it's just , uh oh a proc i better redot and see what happens next. really lame.

[Kaleredar]

So we've come full circle from "Rotations are boring as hell" to "Rotations are exciting and new!"? A priority system requires much more thought process and skill to play than a simple rotation does. I thought the general trend was that people didn't want the game "dumbed down" any further?

[mjolnir1122]

I don't really see WoW as having priority queues. My main is my warrior, and for the most part it's still down the line, then spam execute at < 20%.

I don't really need to wait for procs (except for RB and WS), and if people actually wait for certain trinket or other non-class specific procs, then im not sure wtf they're doing.

[Kaleredar]

I don't really need to wait for procs (except for RB and WS), and if people actually wait for certain trinket or other non-class specific procs, then im not sure wtf they're doing.

Festerblight says "hi"

[Nobleshield]

So we've come full circle from "Rotations are boring as hell" to "Rotations are exciting and new!"? A priority system requires much more thought process and skill to play than a simple rotation does. I thought the general trend was that people didn't want the game "dumbed down" any further?

Well it's to each their own, as always. I never had a problem with actual rotations, in fact I preferred them because it let me focus on the boss fight instead of proc watching or DoT watching or what have you, and IMO having simplistic rotations allows for better boss fights. Sure there were a ton of people who pushed for the move to the current style because they wanted a high skill cap between bad/good players, and because they found rotations boring. I was never one of them

[Deleted]

The closest I can think of are the ranged dps classes of Tera and Neverwinter Online, i.e. Sorceror, Archer and Control Wizard.

But on the whole most MMOs have priority combat systems for a reason.

[elderamy]

i don't see an issue in having different classes/spec being played differently...

so are more focused on procs than others while some are more true to a rotation than a priority system...
Nonetheless festerblight is quite an unique playstyle... I don't see why ppl whine so much about it, especially ppl that don't even play it...

[Kebren]

Isn't a priority queue just a different way to describe a rotation?

Like you talk about the Paladins 969 rotation from Wrath, but that was actually 2 priority queues. It was a way to prioritize Holy Shield while ensuring you alternated between your abilities on a 6 second cooldown and a 9 second cooldown. Unless you mean how the community created macros to simplify your rotation into hitting 2 macros over and over.

I feel like you could express any rotation as a priority queue. Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean by a priority.

[Deleted]

I feel like you could express any rotation as a priority queue. Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean by a priority.

A priority system relies on rng. For example, rng of a buff or a talent/feat that provides an rng buff (or debuff) or even rng of a cooldown. Then spells are selected based on what benefit this rng provides.

In Neverwinter Online, for example, there are some talent tree combinations that have no rng for their ranged dps class and their spells provide some important debuff that means they are always going to be used as soon as they are available from their fixed timed cooldown, regardless of any other concern. This makes it easy to create one or more rotations of one spell after another.

Of course, any rotation can be considered a subset of a priority system with zero or somehow controllable rng, but that's not a useful definition in this specific case.

[Noorri]

Isn't a priority queue just a different way to describe a rotation?

Like you talk about the Paladins 969 rotation from Wrath, but that was actually 2 priority queues. It was a way to prioritize Holy Shield while ensuring you alternated between your abilities on a 6 second cooldown and a 9 second cooldown. Unless you mean how the community created macros to simplify your rotation into hitting 2 macros over and over.

I feel like you could express any rotation as a priority queue. Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean by a priority.

An example of priority queue, the Elemental Shaman from WoW:
1. Keep the Flame Shock DOT up on the target, refresh at 3 or less seconds remaining.
2. Cast Lava Burst, watch for proccs that ends the cooldown.
3. Cast Earth Shock at 6-7 charges of Lightning Shield.
4. Keep Searing Totem up.
5. Cast Lightning Bolt.

Here is an example made up rotation: (using the names of Fire Mage spells in WoW)

1. Cast 1x Scorch.
2. Cast 2x Fireball.
3. Cast 1x Pyroblast.
4. Cast 1x Inferno Blast.
5. Go back to 1.

Priority queue systems are very fluid, you need to constantly check what is available and make choices based on what is off cooldown, how much of your DOT time is left, what the HP of the enemy is etc. In a rotation you use the same abilities in the same order over and over again. Your rotation might change when the target is at a certain % of HP, but it will still be a rotation as long as you use the abilities in the same order.

The Paladin 969 rotation from Wrath was a proper rotation, because you used the same abilities in the same order every time. While all current classes in WoW (and in several other games as well according to this thread) has a priority queue system. I quite enjoyed the 969 rotation that Paladins had in WotLK, and I think Blizzard has gone way to far with the priority queue system. It's really tiresome to constantly have to watch for procs, things going of cooldown and DOT timers. It was quite nice to halway zone out as your fingers automatically moved themselves to the next button in the queue, and it also made it much easier to keep your attention to what the boss is doing. Current WoW raiding is just so exhausting because of the massive amounts of attention you have to keep up at all times.

[Madcloud]

Example:
Rotation = Cast X, then cast Y. Repeat (very simple example)

Priority = Cast X, if (something), Cast Y, if (something else) cast Z.

The weird thing about WoW, is that it kind of has both. You have a set Rotation that you know is correct. However, with procs and other class specific abilities, it complicates it into a priority list. I'll use an arcane mage as an example.

Normally we will ABx4, cast missile procs, redot, then ABar. This (kind of) changes due to procs though (at least for me).

Since normally things are all proc-ing at the start of the fight, we are going to redot early into our "rotation" to put a stronger DoT up. I will sometimes even do it before I reach 4 stacks of AB. Depending on how good you are at managing your mana, you can get a few extra AB's in before ABar-ing (but you'll want to eat a mana gem before ABar). Maybe you will want to do this to hold out for the last few seconds of a trinket like Wushoolay, which will be much stronger in the last 5-7 seconds than it is at the start. Doing this will tremendously increase the damage of your ABar.

The way I see it, most DPS classes have a set Rotation, however, things on that list change in priority based on procs and class specific stuff. What will seperate a good player from a great player is understanding this and how the spells/abilities in your "rotation" change "priority" based on stuff like procs and class specific abilities. Obviously, rotations are boring, which is why changing the priority of those abilities is necessary. If there was no such thing as a "rotation" we would be running around spamming whatever we want and winning, total anarchy. It would get old really fast. The freedom of not having a rotation sounds nice though, doesn't it?

That's the problem, though. We cannot have that freedom. And it's not a bad thing. Having a rotation with changing priorities is a GREAT system. And do you know why? Because you can learn the ins-and-outs of the spec. You can "master" it. Everytime you get a new trinket, or a new kind of proc, there is a chance it may slightly change the way you use your abilities. You are constantly learning new ways to play and improving the way you play. That is, if you have the motivation to learn that kind of stuff.

I dunno. Stuff.

TL;DR - Arcane mages are boring. Rotations have and WILL be around for a long time. Mixing it with changing priorities is a great way to keep it fresh.

[Deleted]

I think Blizzard has gone way to far with the priority queue system. It's really tiresome to constantly have to watch for procs, things going of cooldown and DOT timers. It was quite nice to halway zone out as your fingers automatically moved themselves to the next button in the queue, and it also made it much easier to keep your attention to what the boss is doing. Current WoW raiding is just so exhausting because of the massive amounts of attention you have to keep up at all times.

I agree. It became especially bad from the WotLK patch when they deliberately destroyed the original extremely elegant Death Knight rune system (I have never seen anything to match it since from any game) and added in all kinds of horrendous complications that even the best dps-minded players strugged with.

Now imagine you were a Death Knight tank and had to deal with all that nonsense on top of all your other responsibilities...

Shortly after that I stopped playing my DK entirely and a month later left WoW.

[WarpedAcorn]

I believe the developers as a whole have moved away from a straight rotation system because they don't want players to build a macro and spam 1 button. Priority rotations are a way make people actively press the buttons, and I think that is what they want.

I can't think of any games that have straight rotations anymore. The Secret World can be played like a straight rotation, but I think that it depends a lot on your ability loadout.

[Kathandira]

Rotations are too simple if you ask me. I can macro an entire rotation to proceed with a single key stroke. A priority system encourages you to pay more attention to whats going on.

[Matt0193]

Dragoon from FF14:

Heavy Thrust every 18s
Apply Chaos Thrust combo chain if you're the debuff bitch (http://azeroth.metblogs.com/files/2009/10/catdps.jpg for reference)
Apply Pheblotomize every 18s(?)
Filler Full Thrust combo.

So basically, 1, (2, 3, 4), 5, 6, 7, 8, 1, 6, 7, 8, 5, 1, (2, 3, 4), dropping the () if you're not the Mangle bitch and using more 6, 7, 8 fillers while 1 is up and 5 is applied. You can take it further with Jumps every 40-300s, but that's off the GCD and not part of the main rotation.

I've read that Monk is similar, but requires more positioning. Dragoon only requires that you attack from the side if you're not the mangle bitch and requires you to be behind for the 2 ability for it to do maximum damage. Monk seems to require more focus on attacking from behind but flank attacks for some.

Black Mage is also reminiscent of Arcane, having to manage your MP by alternating between nuke and preserve phases with Astral Fire and Umbral Ice debuffs.

Rotations are too simple if you ask me. I can macro an entire rotation to proceed with a single key stroke. A priority system encourages you to pay more attention to whats going on.

Agreed, I can understand that looking for buffs and debuffs that aren't supported visually by the UI by default can be tiresome and almost being forced to setup addons like TellMeWhen if you want to have a more visual notification similar to the default ones is a little annoying, but the alternative is simply "Mash 1".

[Bigbazz]

I enjoyed WOTLK fury warrior, though to some extent it was still priority based. Keep WW/Bloodthirst on cooldown and watch for slam procs for the free global cooldowns, if no slam procs in the free GCD you switch to battlestance and put a rend on the target, sub 20% you would execute instead of rend if no slams procced. Alongside that you had the rage burn mechanic of spamming heroic strike, getting rage back from crits.

It felt fast and powerful, you always had rage (atleast by ICC with all buffs and powerful gear) and you weren't standing around waiting for some frustrating enrage proc to be able to use your abilities, I prefered it, it was part rotation, part priority with very little downtime.. So it actually felt "furious", fast paced and bursty. MOP Fury Warrior feels quite bland to me, frustrating and much slower paced, no anticipation of waiting for that big whirlwind hit that I knew was coming every 8 seconds, instead hoping for a proc.

It is so much more enjoyable to play WOTLK Fury Warrior than MOP I can't even begin to emphasise it. Though Colossus Smash was a good idea, SMF is a nice option and Heroic Leap would be missed.

[Achaman]

i could never be bothered to learn class rotations which is probarly why i never got into any of the better raid guilds and missed out on the majority of tbc - wotlk raids :/