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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Williams isn't a liberal.
    and from my stand point Bush wasn't a conservative. Man had more liberal ideology then any real conservative I know. i.e Patriot Act, No child left behind, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Åmbulance View Post
    What is your argument? That the teacher's union isn't for the students, but for the people that pay's it's dues? Color me shocked!
    Well I was just pointing out that they're not for the kids, that's for sure.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    Basically, but just throwing money out there isn't the solution. We have to get involved. Before you say what do I do, I've served 6 years in the military and once a month I volunteer at my cities soup kitchen. Believe me I want to help. These kids need guidance.
    Again, can you give us specific points of policy that you recommend to "teach responsibility" and "give guidance"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    slow golf clap!
    republicans and democrats are both to blame for where we're at. A pox on both their parties.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    Well I was just pointing out that they're not for the kids, that's for sure.
    Some unions are not for the kids. Many, in fact, are - teachers do not become teachers for the high pay and exorbitant benefits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Again, can you give us specific points of policy that you recommend to "teach responsibility" and "give guidance"?
    I'm taking it you're not reading anything I'm posting.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Some unions are not for the kids. Many, in fact, are - teachers do not become teachers for the high pay and exorbitant benefits.
    Some become teachers to bang their students. Sorry had to.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    Basically, but just throwing money out there isn't the solution. We have to get involved. Before you say what do I do, I've served 6 years in the military and once a month I volunteer at my cities soup kitchen. Believe me I want to help. These kids need guidance.
    This is just useless platitudes. Feel good crap with no actual meaning.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    I'm taking it you're not reading anything I'm posting.
    I am, and all I am seeing is the same old platitudes of "we need to teach responsibility!".

    The question becomes how do you intend to "teach responsibility"? Because myself, Wells, and Ambulance all have specific, enactable points of policy designed to the end of resolving this social crisis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Some unions are not for the kids. Many, in fact, are - teachers do not become teachers for the high pay and exorbitant benefits.
    Not all but I would say a lot get paid more then you think, and some are complete craptastic teachers. Mostly in your inner cities. Are you have to do is some research to see some of their pay. Being a good teacher should be rewarded. They chose that job to help the children, they need to do their jobs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I am, and all I am seeing is the same old platitudes of "we need to teach responsibility!".

    The question becomes how do you intend to "teach responsibility"? Because myself, Wells, and Ambulance all have specific, enactable points of policy designed to the end of resolving this social crisis.
    What the Democrats have already done is what you're suggesting. How is that working out?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is just useless platitudes. Feel good crap with no actual meaning.
    like yours, just dump more money into the system.

  10. #150
    like yours, just dump more money into the system.
    I never said that.

    Though that's what you'll call anything that costs money I suspect.

  11. #151
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    What does "teaching responsibility" mean in actual policy terms?
    Ah - therein lies the rub. Multiculturalism and Progressive philosophy do not seek to teach responsibility. The teaching of personal responsibility implies an appeal to a unifying morality - a code of behavior and thought that serves as a reference point upon which to prescribe behavioral mores. However, appeals to a moral code cannot be a part of "actual policy terms". Government is not supposed to prescribe morality, and so when government attempts to get people to improve their behavior it tends to do so by the use of rather ineffective, bland, and non-specific means - or (worse) by playing around with the tax code to punish what it doesn't like and reward what it does like.

    Teaching responsibility is entirely possible, but it cannot be done through government policies, or by the use of policy wonks, think tanks, or other secular organizations. The teaching of responsibility must be done in the home, in churches, in families, and in one on one interactions that occur in the heart and the mind. In short, they are not 'things' that can be grasped, studied, and implemented by cold, heartless government platforms. Government can't do it. Not in a million years. Neither can amoral Progressive philosophies or bland but toothless appeals to 'fairness', 'multiculturalism' or 'political correctness'.

    Like garlic to a vampire - the only way that society can REALLY combat this Culture Rot that is destroying the family is to turn to a moral philosophy that prescribes a 'right' and 'wrong' way to do things. The exact source that society has been bad-mouthing and undermining since the 60s.

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    Not all but I would say a lot get paid more then you think, and some are complete craptastic teachers. Mostly in your inner cities. Are you have to do is some research to see some of their pay. Being a good teacher should be rewarded. They chose that job to help the children, they need to do their jobs.
    Since you're apparently up in the ass about personal experience; guess what, I teach. I'm far better acquainted with the realities of educating in this country than you, by your standard.

    What the Democrats have already done is what you're suggesting. How is that working out?
    In states where it has been implemented, funded, and maintained correctly? Pretty damn well. How do you think California resolved its fiscal woes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    Ah - therein lies the rub. Multiculturalism and Progressive philosophy do not seek to teach responsibility. The teaching of personal responsibility implies an appeal to a unifying morality - a code of behavior and thought that serves as a reference point upon which to prescribe behavioral mores. However, appeals to a moral code cannot be a part of "actual policy terms". Government is not supposed to prescribe morality, and so when government attempts to get people to improve their behavior it tends to do so by the use of rather ineffective, bland, and non-specific means - or (worse) by playing around with the tax code to punish what it doesn't like and reward what it does like.

    Teaching responsibility is entirely possible, but it cannot be done through government policies, or by the use of policy wonks, think tanks, or other secular organizations. The teaching of responsibility must be done in the home, in churches, in families, and in one on one interactions that occur in the heart and the mind. In short, they are not 'things' that can be grasped, studied, and implemented by cold, heartless government platforms. Government can't do it. Not in a million years. Neither can amoral Progressive philosophies or bland but toothless appeals to 'fairness', 'multiculturalism' or 'political correctness'.

    Like garlic to a vampire - the only way that society can REALLY combat this Culture Rot that is destroying the family is to turn to a moral philosophy that prescribes a 'right' and 'wrong' way to do things. The exact source that society has been bad-mouthing and undermining since the 60s.
    More platitudes.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    Ah - therein lies the rub. Multiculturalism and Progressive philosophy do not seek to teach responsibility. The teaching of personal responsibility implies an appeal to a unifying morality - a code of behavior and thought that serves as a reference point upon which to prescribe behavioral mores. However, appeals to a moral code cannot be a part of "actual policy terms". Government is not supposed to prescribe morality, and so when government attempts to get people to improve their behavior it tends to do so by the use of rather ineffective, bland, and non-specific means - or (worse) by playing around with the tax code to punish what it doesn't like and reward what it does like.
    Complete rubbish. The use of public assistance to curtail poverty and all the ills it brings is a well attested method that works when it is done correctly and not botched through half-assing (as with the ACA) or subjected to moral hype (like Planned Parenthood).

    Teaching responsibility is entirely possible, but it cannot be done through government policies, or by the use of policy wonks, think tanks, or other secular organizations. The teaching of responsibility must be done in the home, in churches, in families, and in one on one interactions that occur in the heart and the mind. In short, they are not 'things' that can be grasped, studied, and implemented by cold, heartless government platforms. Government can't do it. Not in a million years. Neither can amoral Progressive philosophies or bland but toothless appeals to 'fairness', 'multiculturalism' or 'political correctness'.
    Again, this is a load of rubbish simply because "responsibility" is a subjective term and your definition of "responsibility" is not another's.

    Like garlic to a vampire - the only way that society can REALLY combat this Culture Rot that is destroying the family is to turn to a moral philosophy that prescribes a 'right' and 'wrong' way to do things. The exact source that society has been bad-mouthing and undermining since the 60s.
    You mean a way of doing things that is divorced from reality since reality is never black and white as people like you enjoy propagating?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Since you're apparently up in the ass about personal experience; guess what, I teach. I'm far better acquainted with the realities of educating in this country than you, by your standard.



    In states where it has been implemented, funded, and maintained correctly? Pretty damn well. How do you think California resolved its fiscal woes?
    Okay I'm stopping. You just mentioned California is in great shape, when you can read how much in debt most of California is in. I'm done because I'm going to get banned because I just want to help. I see from the outside having 3 kids how our public school system works. It's why I put my kids in private schools. You keep preaching about dumping more money into the failing public school system. Good luck.

  16. #156
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago

    Conservative judges overturn Chicago's gun control laws, gun homicide spirals out of control after being on the steady decline for decades. Conservatives then bitch non-stop about crime in Chicago, pretending 1) that they actually care about black people and 2) that they're not completely responsible for the spike in gun crime. In actuality they only talk about it because Obama used to live in Cook County and they think they're making some kind of brilliant point when they're just proving to the world that they're banal, opportunistic, and couldn't give a shit about human life.

  17. #157
    How do we improve personal responsibility?

    We don't! This vague nebulous collection of labels does!

    How do we measure it?

    We can't!

    How do we know when it works?

    Because the problem goes away!

    How do we know when it doesn't work?

    We can't! Because we'll claim its not happening as long as the problem exists.

    Insert some liberal bashing and whatever here.
    Last edited by Wells; 2013-09-09 at 02:46 AM.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathcries View Post
    Okay I'm stopping. You just mentioned California is in great shape, when you can read how much in debt most of California is in. I'm done because I'm going to get banned because I just want to help. I see from the outside having 3 kids how our public school system works. It's why I put my kids in private schools. You keep preaching about dumping more money into the failing public school system. Good luck.
    California is at present headed to a fiscal -surplus-. Also ignoring the fact that while it was in debt it was still contributing more to the Federal government than it took.

    And no, you don't "see how it works" because you base your opinion on entirely anecdotal evidence which is inadmissible and unreliable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #159
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    More platitudes ... garbage ... rubbish...
    As I said, it is a solution that would be completely unsatisfactory to persons who are steeped in the mindset that "Only GOVERNMENT can do something here..." But we see quite clearly that government has been fecklessly trying solutions to these kinds of problems and failing miserably. To people who must have a government proposal, written in a report, studied by a commission, and approved by a committee? Obviously to people with such a narrow mindset of "what can work", the proposal that private, personal morality will supply the answer would be antithetical. That's why government solutions (and those who are government solution fanbois) will never be able to solve society's problems. Never. They lack the understanding of a single word component that explains how personal responsibility can be taught to people and halt Culture Rot...

    That word? Faith.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    As I said, it is a solution that would be completely unsatisfactory to persons who are steeped in the mindset that "Only GOVERNMENT can do something here..." But we see quite clearly that government has been fecklessly trying solutions to these kinds of problems and failing miserably. To people who must have a government proposal, written in a report, studied by a commission, and approved by a committee? Obviously to people with such a narrow mindset of "what can work", the proposal that private, personal morality will supply the answer would be antithetical. That's why government solutions (and those who are government solution fanbois) will never be able to solve society's problems. Never. They lack the understanding of a single word component that explains how personal responsibility can be taught to people and halt Culture Rot...

    That word? Faith.
    No, faith is an entirely accurate word for what amounts to a religious "solution" for economic problems.

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