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  1. #41
    Warchief Meteoria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Don't you want Federal Agents, of any sort, to be able to lie on those things? I mean, don't our intelligence agencies teach them just that, ya know, in case they're captured and really pathetically interrogated?
    "Yah, we have captured ze spy, shall I lightly tickle him yet fuhrer?"
    Quote Originally Posted by simsumre View Post
    I'm a Conservative American. I'm not able to peacefully protest my Government without being pepper sprayed. Liberal Democrats control my country and I'm being politically persecuted. Where's my asylum?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by A Day to Remember View Post
    hmm, the more you know i guess! This may cum in handy some day...
    It's honestly a phallacy

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by timelord View Post
    It's honestly a phallacy
    As we see here, it might get you into a sticky situation tho.

  4. #44
    Scarab Lord shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    I'm more worried that they're arresting people for teaching other people how to beat a faulty test.
    When you need certain information you don't use that machine, you torture people.

    Torture doesn't mean physical damage.

  5. #45
    Scarab Lord Collegeguy's Avatar
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    I have a feeling this isn't about the lie detector itself as much as it may be more of an aiding and abetting a crime. That is.. he knew a crime was going to take place because of his training.

    Then I have to wonder what the fuck is the govt using lie detectors for. They're worthless at the legal level.
    Last edited by Collegeguy; 2013-09-08 at 07:32 PM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Therionn View Post
    Man, this list of Tyrannical things the Government does is getting larger and larger.
    the list of assholic things civilians do get larger and larger. the machines don,t create crIminals or hinder freedom why would anyone teach others to beat it?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    I have a feeling this isn't about the lie detector itself as much as it may be more of an aiding and abetting a crime. That is.. he knew a crime was going to take place because of his training.

    Then I have to wonder what the fuck is the govt using lie detectors for. They're worthless at the legal level.
    The officers that set him up explicitly told him that they intended to use the training to lie on a federal job application test, which is how they justified the criminality.

    although, in all honesty, i have trouble seeing the line between this, and defense attorneys (or even prosecutors in many cases).

  8. #48
    Elemental Lord Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    I thought lie detector tests are never seen as something trivial in a trial, or am i wrong?
    If i'm not, I have wonder why it matters.
    They're completely and totally inadmissible in court.

    And it supposedly matters because federal agencies ignore that little detail and continue using them.

    They just aren't real big on actual science. See bullet lead analysis and the non-reality-based arson forensics they've pushed in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    The "lie detector" test is administered by policy to most (if not all) federal employees. In the case of organizations such as the NSA it's given as often as every few months. It is, for all intent, the same as the drug test you might be forced to take for any other job.
    Except that, unlike the drug tests, these tests in this case are based on complete and total BS.
    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea.
    Random fact of the day : Every sitting member of Congress receives an issue of Hustler every month.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    When you need certain information you don't use that machine, you torture people.

    Torture doesn't mean physical damage.
    Um, how is this even relevant at all? Are you trying to imply that we should torture federal applicants?
    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    ...nothing wrong with that...
    There is a lot wrong with it. Ignoring the whole freedom-but-not-infringing issue, polygraphs shouldn't be used in the first place.
    Last edited by Bergtau; 2013-09-08 at 10:53 PM.

    Bergtau's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability that somebody will mention Godwin's Law approaches 1.
    Hitler wasn't all bad, I mean, he DID kill Hitler.
    An accident is something that you did not mean to do at all. A mistake is something that you regret doing.

  10. #50
    I don't get why it's so difficult to believe that abetting a criminal this directly can be treated as an offense.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    I don't get why it's so difficult to believe that abetting a criminal this directly can be treated as an offense.
    Aren't polygraphs kind of.. not working?

  12. #52
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    I feel like they're just making this shit up because they didn't like what he was doing, even though lie detector tests are pretty much bullshit.
    I don't know the evidence, but they are necessary for anyone with top secret clearance. Granted, a trained operator can spot spoofing methods, but I can see why this is illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooneye View Post
    Aren't polygraphs kind of.. not working?
    They aren't perfect, but neither are several other kinds of evidence used in Courts. I agree that it is somewhat silly, but treating it as an offense is necessary, particularly when the sentiment behind it is as plain as day; clearly it's just meant to help potential criminals escape judgement of the law. Not considering that a felony itself leaves unanswered the critical question of when it is you draw the line where a form of evidence is deemed as "reliable" enough that teaching criminals how to work around that becomes an offense itself. That is a whole other can of worms that doesn't need to be opened. Just outlawing any way of aiding a criminal at all, no matter how seemingly trivial, is the less troublesome way to go about things.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Neos300 View Post
    "Mr. Dixon chose to enrich himself by teaching others how to convincingly lie, cheat and steal," Phillips said.

    In that case, they should arrest all the deans and professors in business and law schools in this country.
    ... and every politician that's ever lived.

  15. #55
    Teaching someone that is done for one reason only.
    Being charged for it was absolutely the right thing.
    Intentionally aiding a criminal, intentionally aiding them to commit a crime with full knowledge of the consequences of their actions.

  16. #56
    Since the Federal government loves lie detectors so much, maybe they can hook all these asshole politicians up to one on the televised debates.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    They aren't perfect, but neither are several other kinds of evidence used in Courts.
    I'd say they're outright flawed and should never be used.

  18. #58
    People are missing the point. He got time for teaching people who would possibly hold a clearance how to cheat in order to gain said clearance.

    I wouldn't doubt anybody who was ever in contact with the guy who currently works for the govt doesn't lose their clearances and/or jobs.

  19. #59
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcfarad View Post
    People are missing the point. He got time for teaching people who would possibly hold a clearance how to cheat in order to gain said clearance.

    I wouldn't doubt anybody who was ever in contact with the guy who currently works for the govt doesn't lose their clearances and/or jobs.
    While part of getting a clearance, there's no way you could fake the rest of it and just bomb the polygraph.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  20. #60
    Lie detector results aren't admissible in court so that's a retarded conviction.

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