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  1. #1
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    What is your take on the supernatual?

    I'm not a religious guy, I think most religions are just stories made up by people from the past as a means of influencing people today. But that doesn't mean I'd tell someone not to believe in there faith if it gives them something good to believe in, and results in being better people for it.

    On that though, that doesn't mean I don't believe in something else out there, things that are unexplained and hard to comprehend.

    When I was around 11, I remember seeing something, an apparition, in an old holiday home I stayed in. Since then I've felt it that theres something else in this world that isn't confined to science or religion that can just be explained away as nothing. Also, my mother told me when she was a teenager, she herself saw something in an old london home she lived in briefly, the visage of a woman standing at there fireplace, before she disappeared, so she herself experienced it.

    I'm not someone who easily gives into flights of fancy, I don't simply believe it when any old person 'claiming' to be a spiritualist comes on t.v or writes a book that they've experienced something. I hate shows like ghost adventures, since its so obvious there making up complete bullshit in order to make a t.v show from it, so it takes a lot to convince when something seems genuine or not.

    Saying that, I believe there are some genuine spiritualists out there who do experience things, like the most well know lorraine warren, and her now deceased husband Ed, who spent there lives given respect to those people who experienced cases of hauntings and supernatural activities, many of there cases simply being resolved with nothing more then its just an old house with creaking floor boards, or old pipes. That said, they did actually deal with some genuine cases of hauntings, and even helped many families resolve such cases. The recent movie, the conjuring, is based on one of there cases (soaped up for movie format of course), but both (unlike Zak Bagans obvious satire show), actually seem to be serious about these cases, and even admitting when something is fake, and when its genuine.

    I do believe in spirits, such as negative energies left behind when people pass on, and maybe even stretching it to there being things not human in such cases left behind. But, I don't believe every claimed medium of it, when its obvious there just trying to make money from it.
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  2. #2
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    I would not rule it out as absolutely impossible, but I think irrationality accounts for the overwhelming majority of supposedly supernatural occurrences.

  3. #3
    Supernatural = natural stuff we don't understand yet.

    Stuff that isn't possible, then that isn't supernatural - it is just fiction.

    Our human mind has no direct access to reality, most of what we perceive is made up - so making up all sorts of stuff is entirely natural, doesn't make it real.

  4. #4
    It's just a form of wish fulfillment, imo. It would be awesome if our everyday lives weren't as painfully boring as they tend to be, but I don't see "a spirit did it" as any better than "God did it" when it comes to events we simply don't understand (yet).

  5. #5
    Warchief Kuthe's Avatar
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    Hunters protect us from everything bad that goes BOO in the night.

    Yay Yay supernatural! (the tv show)
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

    Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    things that are unexplained
    That is where your argument should've ended.

  7. #7
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I'm not a religious guy, I think most religions are just stories made up by people from the past as a means of influencing people today. But that doesn't mean I'd tell someone not to believe in there faith if it gives them something good to believe in, and results in being better people for it.

    On that though, that doesn't mean I don't believe in something else out there, things that are unexplained and hard to comprehend.

    When I was around 11, I remember seeing something, an apparition, in an old holiday home I stayed in. Since then I've felt it that theres something else in this world that isn't confined to science or religion that can just be explained away as nothing. Also, my mother told me when she was a teenager, she herself saw something in an old london home she lived in briefly, the visage of a woman standing at there fireplace, before she disappeared, so she herself experienced it.

    I'm not someone who easily gives into flights of fancy, I don't simply believe it when any old person 'claiming' to be a spiritualist comes on t.v or writes a book that they've experienced something. I hate shows like ghost adventures, since its so obvious there making up complete bullshit in order to make a t.v show from it, so it takes a lot to convince when something seems genuine or not.

    Saying that, I believe there are some genuine spiritualists out there who do experience things, like the most well know lorraine warren, and her now deceased husband Ed, who spent there lives given respect to those people who experienced cases of hauntings and supernatural activities, many of there cases simply being resolved with nothing more then its just an old house with creaking floor boards, or old pipes. That said, they did actually deal with some genuine cases of hauntings, and even helped many families resolve such cases. The recent movie, the conjuring, is based on one of there cases (soaped up for movie format of course), but both (unlike Zak Bagans obvious satire show), actually seem to be serious about these cases, and even admitting when something is fake, and when its genuine.

    I do believe in spirits, such as negative energies left behind when people pass on, and maybe even stretching it to there being things not human in such cases left behind. But, I don't believe every claimed medium of it, when its obvious there just trying to make money from it.
    Supernatural or Paranormal?
    That's the question to sort out first.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/supernatural / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

    The problem lies within proof for countless of claims made. To believe every claim made as truth would be outright foolish. But that is also valid the other way around. It would be outright foolish to discard every claim ever made as total bullshit.

    For myself, I'm very skeptical, but I won't out rule any of such. To me the key problem is the mass amounts of total fake stories/evidence, or purposely turning perfectly normal and rational explainable events into supernatural or paranormal events.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Supernatural = natural stuff we don't understand yet.

    Stuff that isn't possible, then that isn't supernatural - it is just fiction.

    Our human mind has no direct access to reality, most of what we perceive is made up - so making up all sorts of stuff is entirely natural, doesn't make it real.
    I was actually just watching a video about that the other day. Sometimes we literally perceive something that is incorrect. One of the more obvious ones is a color perception trick, where colors can appear lighter or darker depending on the shades of light or color surrounding them. The color doesn't change when we surround it by the darker or lighter color, our brains just perceive it as changed.

    Our brains act as filters, and there's only so much we can sense with what we have. The human body isn't a perfect tool for observing the universe.

    EDIT: I have had some unusual personal experiences myself, and while it would be nice to use a blanket statement like 'paranormal' or 'supernatural' to write them off, I prefer 'unexplained'. Do I think it'd be neat if there were spirits, higher powers, and other weird things out there? Sure I do, but there's woefully little evidence for them. One time I saw a big white cat running through the door and down the stairs into my basement. When I walked into the living room, the only white cat we had (my cat) was sleeping on a chair. There were no holes big enough for a cat to get into our house, no doors open, no windows open, nothing. How did that cat get in there? Did I just -think- I saw it? Was it a ghost or something else? Who knows.
    Last edited by AlarStormbringer; 2013-09-08 at 03:29 PM.

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  9. #9
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
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    At best, there are thing which are unexplained.

    Anything else (i.e. belief in ghosts) is wishful thinking and projecting (Many things we think we saw or heard is nothing but an imagination of our brain).
    Last edited by Dezerte; 2013-09-08 at 03:38 PM.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  10. #10
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Supernatural = natural stuff we don't understand yet.

    Stuff that isn't possible, then that isn't supernatural - it is just fiction.

    Our human mind has no direct access to reality, most of what we perceive is made up - so making up all sorts of stuff is entirely natural, doesn't make it real.
    No. Supernatural means that its not possible. If it is discovered to be possible it ceases to be supernatural and becomes natural.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Supernatural = natural stuff we don't understand yet.

    Stuff that isn't possible, then that isn't supernatural - it is just fiction.

    Our human mind has no direct access to reality, most of what we perceive is made up - so making up all sorts of stuff is entirely natural, doesn't make it real.
    I can agree with that, though the word supernatural tends to be used to mean...well, things that are impossible.

    Do I believe humans don't know everything? Certainly. There's so little we do know (and that's even is we assume we know anything at all).

    Do I believe in things with zero basis in fact or logic? Nope. Eye witness accounts are the weakest form of evidence, even in criminal investigation. So I have no 'belief' in ghosts, spirits, fate, omens, dieties, an afterlife (despite having some concepts about possible after life existance with no basis in fact), alien abductions (though I know for a fact alien life of some kind exists, existed or will exist somewhere in this utterly mind bogglingly huge and ancient Universe that may also be part of a Multiverse), dragons, fairies, zombies... Etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlarStormbringer View Post
    Sometimes we literally perceive something that is incorrect.
    More like everything! Nothing is solid, for example - yet we see things as being solid (and feel them as being solid).

    Mind boggling. But we just have to accept it because ultimately its how our existance is defined.

  12. #12
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    My take is the same as it has been every time this topic has come up. The mind plays tricks on people and we see what we want to see. If you see something odd your mind tells you its a ghost or some other supernatural phenomena. If you researched the event you would find out there is a perfectly logical explanation for whatever you think you saw.

  13. #13
    I've told this story on MMO-C before, but...

    I don't officially believe in anything like ghost or monsters but when I'm alone and it's dark and I'm scared I usually address the corner of my room and say things like "I know you're there!" and "I'd rather you didn't kill me" just to be on the safe side. I mean, logically I "know" there's nothing there but it never hurts to cover all your bases. Better safe than sorry. If there turns out there was a ghost there all along it just feels like he'd be more lenient on me when I do that.

    Anyway, I talk a lot to ghosts and monsters, but I'm not sure I believe in them.


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  14. #14
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    This guy gives a good explanation on how to handle these people...

  15. #15
    Don't know if any of it is real or not. I just don't mess with it. I've heard of stuff following people cause they messed with something they shouldn't have and that's their karma for it. So, I stand by the idea not to mess with things that aren't in my control and don't go looking for something that you can't explain.

  16. #16
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h1ko View Post
    Don't know if any of it is real or not. I just don't mess with it. I've heard of stuff following people cause they messed with something they shouldn't have and that's their karma for it. So, I stand by the idea not to mess with things that aren't in my control and don't go looking for something that you can't explain.
    People who believe in it are more likely to interpret an event or series of events in such a way and it often seems to be the case that they do not even attempt to exhaust all rational explanations before jumping to the spiritual, supernatural, or religious one.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    No. Supernatural means that its not possible. If it is discovered to be possible it ceases to be supernatural and becomes natural.
    Exactly. Supernatural is just stuff we haven't worked out yet.... the rest is just fiction

  18. #18
    My position regarding the supernatural is not hard to explain: if you present me an extraordinary claim, you'll have to provide extraordinary evidence.

    People feel confused though, when i tell them i'm a christian who doesn't believe in the supernatural
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    So it would be more accurate to say a neutron star is a quantum-mechanical clusterfuck than to say a neutron star is "like a solid".

  19. #19
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotabe View Post
    My position regarding the supernatural is not hard to explain: if you present me an extraordinary claim, you'll have to provide extraordinary evidence.

    People feel confused though, when i tell them i'm a christian who doesn't believe in the supernatural
    Well that's understandable since the Christian conception of God is necessarily supernatural.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Tacotruck's Avatar
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    I hate the word supernatural. there is nothing that is outside or above the 'natural' world. Things exist or they do not. Things can exist and be as of yet unexplained or undiscovered.

    Holding that in mind, we can rephrase the question; Are there some sorts of spiritual phenomenon that we are currently unable to quantify and explain? Maybe. Hard to prove a negative and we seem to be lacking the technology to get any positive proof. The evidence seems to suggest it is all in people's heads.

    All that said, I personally do believe there is something going on with spiritual/magical/psychic phenomena, but belief is cheap. That is one thing we do have plenty of evidence of, people can be caused to believe almost anything.
    You thought the leaden winter would bring you down forever, But you rode upon a steamer to the violence of the sun...
    And you see a girl's brown body dancing through the turquoise, And her footprints make you follow where the sky loves the sea.
    And when your fingers find her, she drowns you in her body, Carving deep blue ripples in the tissues of your mind.

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