How hard is Flexi raid?

[Lupercus]

Good day..

How hard is actually Flexi raids, thinking of first week, an casual raid guild with full normal + some HC gear, are flexi raids going to be cleared eventually really easy, or does it takes some attempts.

How is it, compared to LFR / Normal?

[Deja Thoris]

We won't know until it appears on live. It's pitched between lfr and normal in difficulty so if you've downed a hc boss or 3 I can't see it being very challenging.

[Terridon]

We know at Wednesday, but would asume half a tier below normal, since they say they will try to aim for something like the old 10-mans
You will probably have some attempts. It's not made to be faceroll, from what they said, but you're outgearing it a good deal, so shouldn't be hard either.
The mechanics is the same as normal, but hurts less.

Edit:
Derp. I'm a silly euro.
It's launched in US tomorrow, so we should know by then

[Weightlifter]

Do you think a 3/13HC guild could clear the 1st flex wing in ~2 hours before our normal raid starts?

[Inthislzon]

Do you think a 3/13HC guild could clear the 1st flex wing in ~2 hours before our normal raid starts?

Surely yes, as a 11/13H we fully expect to clear it on 1-2 hours mostly to get practice with the bosses, as skills are the same on normal and flex

[Nobleshield]

I think they said it would be somewhat easy, the assumption I read somewhere was an average friends/family guild could assume a new boss kill per week (assuming all wings open).

For me, being just a 12/12N scrub, I'm thinking Flex might be the first thing we go to in order to "practice" for Normal. Like since we raid 3 nights a week, spend the first night only on Flex to get a feel, and then the other two work on Normal.

[NRL1515]

I think they said it would be somewhat easy, the assumption I read somewhere was an average friends/family guild could assume a new boss kill per week (assuming all wings open).

For me, being just a 12/12N scrub, I'm thinking Flex might be the first thing we go to in order to "practice" for Normal. Like since we raid 3 nights a week, spend the first night only on Flex to get a feel, and then the other two work on Normal.

We just finished 12/12 as well, and this is how we're going to approach Flex. We only raid 2 days a week (M/W) for 3 hours each day and our plan is to spend Wednesdays in Flex mode to 'learn' the fights - as well as bring along any guildies who want to come along - and then focus on normal modes for Mondays. We'll do this until we are able to clear SoO on Flex mode, then focus solely on normal (then hopefully heroic, seeing how our progress goes) modes depending on how things go.

[Ninotchka]

I'm running a pre-raid flexi instance with 7/10 of my core raid team, 5-6/10 of our other raid team and as many people from the guild who want to come join us. The two teams are 4/13 and 12/12, the randoms from guild are LFR and occasional subs. We have 2 hours before my group has to leave to actually raid.

I'm hoping that flexi will show us some hitherto untapped talent, I'm looking forward to it. But with this motley crew I'm expecting, at most, to clear 2 bosses in 2 hours. I will be unsurprised if we only get one, and overjoyed if we get beyond 2. We'll do the same next week, and after that flexi will become the feature of our Saturday Night Fun Raid, although we may still do guild LFR from time to time just for the joy of being able to vote out rude people.

So my expectation is that flexi will be tuned so that I can take a group that's about 20% nonraiding grandmas in there and they can feel like they've made a contribution to our success. Assuming that I get at least 50% of the raid comprised of us tough and hearty overgeared raiding types.

[marklar]

i'm guessing something like normal ToC. would be a good target to shoot for, imo.

[Nobleshield]

i'm guessing something like normal ToC. would be a good target to shoot for, imo.

I don't know... Beasts (well, "NOT ONE, BUT TWO JORNMUNGAR WORMS!" at any rate. Gormok and Icehowl were easy) were pretty tough on pugs that I can recall, and then ones that got past that usually were decimated by Faction Champs.

[FluFF]

probably like Normal Morchok in T13, it's 1 step above LFR but 1 step below Normal.

Guess you can have a ''oh shit'' moment in Flex and probably still live with like 40% HP. ( and I assume there is a boss mechanic that will be dumbed down or even missing compared to normal or hc )

[Inthislzon]

They said mechanics will be the exact same, just less punishing.

Thinking about tortos that would mean you can hit breath a couple seconds late (no oneshots) but failing to kick a turtle WILL wipe you, unlike LFR where you just ignore turtles

[Tziva]

It's hard to know. Flex was really overtuned on the PTR, especially if your raid size was closer to 10 than 25, and basically the only groups that were able to down any bosses were full 13/13 HM groups.

That said, it's supposed to be tuned easier than normal but harder than LFR. I'd imagine it will be closer to Normal tuning than LFR, since mechanics will actually matter, just be less punishing... but not to the point of ignore-them-and-brute force, at least not until groups are overgeared.

Do you think a 3/13HC guild could clear the 1st flex wing in ~2 hours before our normal raid starts?

I don't know. Just the first wing? Maybe probably. Depends on how fast you guys learn, really.

[Squishei]

The well tuned wing on the PTR (first wing) was tuned to be normal with a ~20-25% nerf to damage and health values. Take that with a grain of salt going into live, but it seems really well tuned at that. All mechanics were intact though.

[KCguy]

There was a blue post the other day that said if you can clear the first 8 bosses fairly easy, then you should be doing normal. Who knows for sure though.

[unholyness]

It's hard to know. Flex was really overtuned on the PTR, especially if your raid size was closer to 10 than 25, and basically the only groups that were able to down any bosses were full 13/13 HM groups.

That said, it's supposed to be tuned easier than normal but harder than LFR. I'd imagine it will be closer to Normal tuning than LFR, since mechanics will actually matter, just be less punishing... but not to the point of ignore-them-and-brute force, at least not until groups are overgeared.


I don't know. Just the first wing? Maybe probably. Depends on how fast you guys learn, really.

GC tweeted that it would be very beneficial to not have the minumum amount of players needed for Flex but to get as many as you can will help. Blue posts also mentioned they are happy with Flex tuning and their difficulty on the same day we ran it and it was suprisingly more difficult than i was expecting. People are supposed to PUG this lol? I am on a good server and we pug Tot with some of it Heroic but i see people wiping a lot in Flex if the pug has bad's.

Upon saying all of that, there have been numerous tweets to Dev's and GC about this and the reply is that if Flex seems too hard then get better pug's or try to gear up more in Lfr. The same reasoning goes into Heroic modes, if they are too difficult do more Normals,Normals too hard then do Flex,and so on which should work as long as people aren't expecting Flex to be a lfr with pugs.

We plan on doing a informal Flex raid on the weekend for trinkets and as we have cleared current content I am guessing that progression guilds should have no problem in Flex with raiders.

[Deleted]

GC tweeted that it would be very beneficial to not have the minumum amount of players needed for Flex but to get as many as you can will help. Blue posts also mentioned they are happy with Flex tuning and their difficulty on the same day we ran it and it was suprisingly more difficult than i was expecting. People are supposed to PUG this lol? I am on a good server and we pug Tot with some of it Heroic but i see people wiping a lot in Flex if the pug has bad's.

Nope, it's not designed for pugging. it's designed for guilds (who don't boot people for low performance) who will progress through it over time with the same people each week.

Upon saying all of that, there have been numerous tweets to Dev's and GC about this and the reply is that if Flex seems too hard then get better pug's or try to gear up more in Lfr. The same reasoning goes into Heroic modes, if they are too difficult do more Normals,Normals too hard then do Flex,and so on which should work as long as people aren't expecting Flex to be a lfr with pugs.

Yep.

One thing seems to be missing from flex and that's a very pressing reason to do it. Every time blizzard introduces something they incentivise the balls off it to get the playerbase to try it. Flex doesnt seem to have that atm, so my thinking is that it's designed for normal guilds to have to gear up in it before they can clear the back end of siege.

[unholyness]

We just finished 12/12 as well, and this is how we're going to approach Flex. We only raid 2 days a week (M/W) for 3 hours each day and our plan is to spend Wednesdays in Flex mode to 'learn' the fights - as well as bring along any guildies who want to come along - and then focus on normal modes for Mondays. We'll do this until we are able to clear SoO on Flex mode, then focus solely on normal (then hopefully heroic, seeing how our progress goes) modes depending on how things go.

With 14 bosses you would have to be really moving to clear that in two nights, just on the amount of trash and bosses especially if you just cleared normals.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, it's not designed for pugging. it's designed for guilds (who don't boot people for low performance) who will progress through it over time with the same people each week.


Yep.

One thing seems to be missing from flex and that's a very pressing reason to do it. Every time blizzard introduces something they incentivise the balls off it to get the playerbase to try it. Flex doesnt seem to have that atm, so my thinking is that it's designed for normal guilds to have to gear up in it before they can clear the back end of siege.

I guess that depends on your opinion of Normal guilds which i am guessing is maybe 12/12 or 1 Heroic boss down then I am guessing these people will need Flex gear. Also for the guilds who dont boot people for being bad, Flex is going to be pretty rough especially if your raid has more than a couple of those player's. As was mentioned over and over, Flex won't be a cake walk but at least they shouldn't have to nerf it either with LFR underneath it. Like I said I was surprised as a 13/13H raider that it was as difficult as it iwas, it wasn't incredibly hard but it def took people doing the numbers they should be and not stand in fire.

We will run a weekend Flex run for trinkets or off-pieces that are very strong but besides that probably alt runs.

[Nobleshield]

Nope, it's not designed for pugging. it's designed for guilds (who don't boot people for low performance) who will progress through it over time with the same people each week.

Didn't they say it was meant to be tuned more like 10-man in Wrath? Those were pugged often (but I find it kind of amusing that I recall it mostly being 25s that were pugged because they were a bit easier overall since the majority of players were running 10s with their guild)

I find it a bit weird if Flex is going to be that challenging, since it's supposed to be like a nerfed Normal/harder LFR, but from reading the above it sounds like it's pretty unforgiving, which defeats the purpose of Flex?

[Deleted]

Didn't they say it was meant to be tuned more like 10-man in Wrath? Those were pugged often (but I find it kind of amusing that I recall it mostly being 25s that were pugged because they were a bit easier overall since the majority of players were running 10s with their guild)

Someone said this to the devs and they responded "pugged once you had 25 man gear, don't expect it for the first 6 weeks" or something along those lines.

I find it a bit weird if Flex is going to be that challenging, since it's supposed to be like a nerfed Normal/harder LFR, but from reading the above it sounds like it's pretty unforgiving, which defeats the purpose of Flex?

Guess we'll find out shortly!