1. #1

    Ret Paladins and raid melee 5.4

    how is it compared to other melee in 5.4?

  2. #2
    Well,

    What are you asking exactly about?
    Your question is too general.. so in such case I will also answer generaly - "Good."

    /sarcasm
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  3. #3
    ah sry mate :P well more or less how the dps is :P seeing as most melee gets buffs while reti more or less stays the same =)

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Nivena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    ... while reti more or less stays the same =)
    Since we are already in a good shape there is no need to buff/nerv something great just for the fact of buffing/nerving. Retibution Paladin are doing well

  5. #5
    oh yea thats what i wanted to hear :3

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    oh yea thats what i wanted to hear :3
    Most of the melee are in a pretty good spot.

    The sleeper melee imo, will be enhance shammies, man they are looking really really good atm.

  7. #7
    @Aqira
    Things we needed, we received - the longer buff of Inquisition and GoAK with 3 min CD.
    In my opinion that's huge buff up for Rets, in both for PvE and PvP.


    @Todyn
    Enh is a bit too good. That's why it occurred with that nerf, but it doesn't mean they will be bad now.
    I am a menace to my own destiny.


    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivena View Post
    Since we are already in a good shape there is no need to buff/nerv something great just for the fact of buffing/nerving. Retibution Paladin are doing well
    According to world of logs we are at the bottom end right now on liver servers, 5.3. Not sure if that counts as good shape:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00100000000000

    The numbers at that site is from world of logs, they take the top 100 from each class and specs and then ranks them.
    Don't take the numbers above as a complete fact, I'm not saying rets is garbage, they are not, but they are defiantly not in good shape. It's not a coincidence that non of Method, Blood Legion or Paragon used a retri for their first kills of Lei Shen and Ra-den (didn't have time to check every fight so I only locked at two end bosses).
    Last edited by Ater; 2013-09-10 at 09:44 AM.
    What to do if you find out that your GM is playing his ally alt? GANK HIM!

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ater View Post
    According to world of logs we are at the bottom end right now on liver servers, 5.3. Not sure if that counts as good shape:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00100000000000

    The numbers at that site is from world of logs, they take the top 100 from each class and specs and then ranks them.
    Don't take the numbers above as a complete fact, I'm not saying rets is garbage, they are not, but they are defiantly not in good shape. It's not a coincidence that non of Method, Blood Legion or Paragon used a retri for their first kills of Lei Shen and Ra-den (didn't have time to check every fight so I only locked at two end bosses).
    Ignore this guy and anybody who tries to use top 100 rankings as a metric for how a spec is on average, those rankings are totally worthless for determining that.

    Ret is more or less in a decent place right now, most certainly much better than it was at the start of the expansion.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Ignore this guy and anybody who tries to use top 100 rankings as a metric for how a spec is on average, those rankings are totally worthless for determining that.
    Personally I find it interesting to look at top 100 since that shows what the classes is able to perform when you push them to the limit, and if you look at the logs from the best guilds in the world, most of their players perform at top 100 on most bosses every week, so it's no coincidence how they perform.

    But as I also wrote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ater View Post
    Don't take the numbers above as a complete facts
    They are not facts about exact how classes perform, but they do give a hint about it.

    Here is ALL parses, not only top 100, you still find ret in bottom three:
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...10100000000000

    Also you can't ignore the fact that neither Method, Blood Legion or Paragon used retris for theire progress kills in ToT.

    Last weekend there was a big event with an live raid where Method and Midwinter competed clearing ToT as fast as they could with the guys from FatbossTV acting as commentators. Both guilds are 25 man guilds, and even with that big 25-man roster non of the teams used any retri in the live raid.
    Last edited by Ater; 2013-09-10 at 11:06 AM.
    What to do if you find out that your GM is playing his ally alt? GANK HIM!

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Yeah, that would be great if the OP asked "how is ret compared to other melee in terms of going for world firsts," except he didn't. I'm operating under the following assumptions: he doesn't care about world firsts, isn't going for them and likely isn't part of the smallest raiding population and simply wants to know how an average ret paladin compares to an average player of any of the other melee. Under those assumptions all of your data has extremely little value to the OP. Looking at the top 100 doesn't show shit beyond how high people can drive the numbers regardless of actual raid performance. Now I'm going to sleep before you post more uselessly narrow data.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Yeah, that would be great if the OP asked "how is ret compared to other melee in terms of going for world firsts," except he didn't. I'm operating under the following assumptions: he doesn't care about world firsts, isn't going for them and likely isn't part of the smallest raiding population and simply wants to know how an average ret paladin compares to an average player of any of the other melee. Under those assumptions all of your data has extremely little value to the OP. Looking at the top 100 doesn't show shit beyond how high people can drive the numbers regardless of actual raid performance. Now I'm going to sleep before you post more uselessly narrow data.



    Yay people who know what their talking about!

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Yeah, that would be great if the OP asked "how is ret compared to other melee in terms of going for world firsts," except he didn't.
    My answer wasn't to op, it was an answer to the one who wrote: that rets is an good shape and doing well. My answer was that rets is not garbage, but based on logs logs and from what other guilds do they are definitely on the lower end when you compare classes.

    And if you only look at melee and you look at ALL logs, not only the top 100 you find that rets are doing the second lowest dps of all melee classes. To me that's not "in great shape" and as I wrote, that's not necessary means that they are garbage, just that they are not in a great shape, they are more "ok" or decent.
    What to do if you find out that your GM is playing his ally alt? GANK HIM!

  14. #14
    Well, how about we settle on YMMV. As Ater pointed out, it's not a coincidence that most retribution paladins weren't included in world first kills. However, it's important to note that the T15 4P for Ret makes their sustained dps pretty solid...which was a major issue for most of MoP. The buffs that ret also received in 5.4 will only help their case and I suspect they'll now be more middle-of-the-pack when looking at DPS sims.

    My assumption is that OP and most people who would be interested in this question are not World First raiders (most are probably asleep right now resting up before the longggg nights ahead) or hardcore progression raiders. If that's the case, then retribution is still a very solid melee choice. People may find it difficult to get into a raid team as retribution due to the negative light ret has been cast in, but brush up on the rotation and hone your skills and let the numbers do the talking. I'm currently OS ret and i've topped meters against very competent players.

  15. #15
    Dreadlord DrMcNinja's Avatar
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    Based on my personal experience from raid testing, we're in a good shape. It's definitely better than 5.3 because of the buffs and lack of complete melee killers (Tortos).
    WoW without flying is like having Pizza, instead of flying right over it

  16. #16
    Felt just fine to me last night. I'm at 550 ilvl and did pick up Eye on Galakras, but prior to that I was top DPS or 2nd behind our Rogue, ahead of our Warrior & DK in 25man. After trinket I blew by everyone -- although that may have been due to some happy proc time with 5 stacks of Prim. Based upon most sims all melee is fairly clustered, and remember as well, sims are sims and it's mostly garbage in/garbage out on top of them being purely based on tank and spank 'mechanics'.

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