So Bliz Lied again

[Archimtiros]

Alright I logged on PTR to check it out myself.

On EU PTR at this very moment, MS still hits for 215% Weapon damage with the improved modifier and Sweeping Strikes hits for 50%. I actually dummy tested it, to make sure, and indeed the SS hits off the main attack are at 50%.

Confirmed this on live just now US Antonidas.

- - - Updated - - -

Confirmed Mortal strike is still 175% weapon damage and sweeping strikes is 75% on US live realms.

Confirmed by Slootbag stream.

This is a tooltip bug when you are not in Arm's spec and is not true.

[Deleted]

So, with the SS buff reverted i guess there's no point on switching to arms anymore for 2-3 target scenarios and the MS buff won't close the gap between fury and arms on single-target.

[Mihalik]

So, with the SS buff reverted i guess there's no point on switching to arms anymore for 2-3 target scenarios and the MS buff won't close the gap between fury and arms on single-target.

I'd wait for the math, but either way this does reduce the gap on AoE between Arms and Fury for 2-3 target cleave. We will have to wait and see I guess.

To be honest we have been saying that SS won't make it to live for a long time, but because literally until patch hour itself Blizzard never touched it, and because they kept reinforcing the idea in blue posts that they intend Arms to have a very strong AoE, we ended up assuming that this is the intended state of Arms, and that it will go live.

Now some blue will come in and say that we shouldn't QQ because it never made it live, because it's not a nerf as it was never on live on the first place. While this is technically true, they are still very much guilty of miss leading us. There wasn't a single hint during the entire SoO testing that they would be uncomfortable with Warrior cleave or that they would buff MS. It almost feels like they pulled the changes out of their asses, ignoring testing results, because they don't seem to be able or willing to discuss it.

They built up a fair amount of hype among warriors and especially among those who wanted to play Arms, and now it seems the entire hype was for nothing. Every single change seems like a Quality of life improvement, I can't even think of a single change that is worth highlighting for PvE, and all the changes for PvP are like "Duh, genius, about fucking time!"

[Bigbazz]

They are scared that Fury Warriors will scale too much with the new gear. They should have learned their lesson in Cataclysm where because of this thinking Fury warriors became obsolete for the remainder of the expansion. I understand that Fury was perhaps the top dps spec in ICC, but only as a result of cleave (on single target dps was well balanced and loads of specs could compete with or beat fury). Since they also killed off Fury warriors cleave dps mechanics in Cataclysm, combined with the fact that they ruined Fury for Dragonsoul, you would think they wouldn't make the same mistake in 5.4.

But hmm, maybe these tiny changes + the 5.4 gear will make the difference to make Fury competitive again. I'm not too optimistic. As for Arms Warriors, I have no idea why sweeping strikes was 50% to begin with. Rogues have the same ability only theirs is 100% and as a result they did a fuckload more damage.

[Mihalik]

They are scared that Fury Warriors will scale too much with the new gear. They should have learned their lesson in Cataclysm where because of this thinking Fury warriors became obsolete for the remainder of the expansion. I understand that Fury was perhaps the top dps spec in ICC, but only as a result of cleave (on single target dps was well balanced and loads of specs could compete with or beat fury). Since they also killed off Fury warriors cleave dps mechanics in Cataclysm, combined with the fact that they ruined Fury for Dragonsoul, you would think they wouldn't make the same mistake in 5.4.

But hmm, maybe these tiny changes + the 5.4 gear will make the difference to make Fury competitive again. I'm not too optimistic. As for Arms Warriors, I have no idea why sweeping strikes was 50% to begin with. Rogues have the same ability only theirs is 100% and as a result they did a fuckload more damage.

I'm not the one to bash on Warriors, but literally single target the only classes that could compete with non-legendary warriors were Mages/really good Rogues and DK. Once a warrior had Shadowmourn, it would melt recount, and only Mages could hope to catch up. Back in those days, World Of Logs, damage rankings were literally Warrior/Warrior/Mage and nothing else, with some multi dotting Shadowpriests on LK.

But anyways that is irrelevant, that was, what...3 years ago? Which in gaming terms might have been 50 years ago. The reason people were so exited about Arms, is that it was finally a chance again to shine at something. To be really really good. After years of "middle of the pack" or "lame", there was a chance we would stand out again.

[Archimtiros]

I'm not the one to bash on Warriors, but literally single target the only classes that could compete with non-legendary warriors were Mages/really good Rogues and DK. Once a warrior had Shadowmourn, it would melt recount, and only Mages could hope to catch up. Back in those days, World Of Logs, damage rankings were literally Warrior/Warrior/Mage and nothing else, with some multi dotting Shadowpriests on LK.

But anyways that is irrelevant, that was, what...3 years ago? Which in gaming terms might have been 50 years ago. The reason people were so exited about Arms, is that it was finally a chance again to shine at something. To be really really good. After years of "middle of the pack" or "lame", there was a chance we would stand out again.

I agree with your second part but your whole premise on the first part was that Warriors were good with a legendary... that never happens. Literally every class that has gotten a legendary (prior to 5.4 ) was OP with it. Bigbazz is mislead when he says Fury was only good because of cleave in ICC, and that is not correct, but saying they were OP with a legendary is just silly.
Now Warriors were in a very good place in ICC, but many classes were. Ret was ridiculous, granted it was partially due to mobs being undead but still. DK's performed very well, as did Mages.

I agree whole heartedly with the idea that people got excited over doing something well again. I really don't even like Arms and I was even very excited about it.
SS nerf hurts that for sure. Arms is still viable; but no longer has such a demanding lead and because of this isn't even above fury on as many fights as it was before.
I'm sure we will have plenty more information by weeks end once more people get some experience.

[Bigbazz]

During ICC I was lets say... one of the better DPS Warriors, I had also had Shadowmourne, one of 3 in my guild. I remember well just how strong Fury was (especially with SM). But on cleave fights Fury Warriors we're in a different league, I wasn't just ahead on these fights but in a different league, where as on single target fights other specs could keep up, specifically mages, rogues, death knights, hunters, Feral druids and in some cases even ret paladins (with SM), on the logs this was consistant throughout most guilds I followed.

Now all of those classes were capable of topping the meters against a Fury warrior given equal priorities (in terms of tricks, hysteria etc..) but it was the Feral druids and Fury warriors that gained most benefit from such abilities, such that it was I almost always had tricks of the trade on me, aswell as hysteria. If you looked at the logs where people were in a fair dps situation (not being boosted by these abilities) then Fury Warriors with Shadowmourne we're very closely balanced with other specs. Mages were arguablly the top single target dps.

However, like I said. When you move that into a cleave fight situation Warriors absolutely dominated because they lost almost none of their single target potency whilst now simply hitting up to 3-4 targets with cleaves + whirlwind, and rage generation was so strong that moving from heroic strike to the more expensive cleave had almost no effect at all.

In the overall scope of things Fury Warriors took a lot of stick for being "overpowered" and while mages are still living the glory days Warriors have not been the same since, save for perhaps Dragon Soul where Arms warriors were very strong in both single target and AOE