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  1. #1
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Would you leave a guild if...

    Question to see what others think about this semi-hypothetical scenario. I say semi because this happened a few months ago, a little after ToT was released. At the time, the guild was struggling on Horridon (I had just come back and was leveling an alt, not planning on actually raiding fulltime anymore). A few people in the guild wanted to put some time in running T14 raids to help gear people up, while a few others wanted to focus solely on T15 and Horridon progress. It got to the point where a few core raiders left the guild because on what would have been T15 raid nights, it was decided to raid T14 instead and help gear some lesser-geared members up.

    My question is: Do you think that's a good or bad thing to do? If you were in a raid team struggling on an early normal boss (and if that concept is totally foreign to you, imagine a friend who just isn't as good as you are) and a week or two you were told that instead of putting in more attempts on the boss giving you trouble the group was going to raid the previous (and now nerfed) tier instead for more gear/helping to gear people up, would it be a reason for leaving the guild? This came up because personally I'd rather devote time to progression than to go and clear what amounts to outdated content on the off chance someone might get an upgrade; with the gearing options in 5.4 going back to ToT is even less of a valid idea since you can get equivalent gear from Siege LFR and even better gear from Siege Flex, so it seems like the argument of "gearing people up" is a moot point, and I'm not sure how I would approach that suggestion if it were to ever crop up again.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2013-09-09 at 03:09 PM.
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  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral ACES's Avatar
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    If I had achievements left to do in the older raids then I'd have no problem as long as they were attempted. Even if not, I wouldn't leave a guild over something like this, I'd just try and pug the raid I wanted to do on a different day.

  3. #3
    Guild doesn't take the direction you want it to, change it or leave. I agree with the choices made. Bad decision to do older content on normal raid hours. If people want to catch up, they should put in extra time (off-hours).
    You work hard towards a goal in 5.0, you get geared up to do 5.2 content, then it's released and your guild leadership says 'nope old content still' because other people have not put the same amount of time in as you have.. gg.
    Last edited by boomkinhero; 2013-09-09 at 03:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Seams like a much less relevant topic with flex raids....

    I guess unless you are going to say, oh we're stuck on #2nd boss on normal, but don't like the idea of going to flex to gear up.

  5. #5
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khatian View Post
    Seams like a much less relevant topic with flex raids....

    I guess unless you are going to say, oh we're stuck on #2nd boss on normal, but don't like the idea of going to flex to gear up.
    Exactly, that's why I said it'd be a moot point now with Flex so if someone suggested it I would give them the "WTF?!" kind of look
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  6. #6
    My guild was/is in the exact same situation, where they were stuck on normal horridon for a few months now with no real progress happening. They ultimately stopped raiding all together. I'm personally looking for another guild right now, or at least a raiding group I can rely on. I wasn't playing with my guild to begin with, but if I were to be stuck on Horridon for more than a week, I would look for solutions, or replace the slackers, or change guild because the whole group is just not cutting it as a whole.

    I dislike being in a group that doesn't progress, but I HATE being in a group that just don't care at all. Going back to old content isn't an option. It's basicly admitting defeat and be fine with it. It's, to me, a proof that the group you are raiding with isn't interested at all.

  7. #7
    I think it would be justified to leave. Normal Horridon requires VERY little gear so if you guys were wiping it most probably to mechanics and having more gear wont fix that. Plus going back to older raids kind of sucks on the slight chance someone will get gear when there's a new shiny raid waiting to be completed.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Mehman's Avatar
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    I'd be fine with 1-2 weeks of it.. IF it's to gear up slackers. If it's just because people can't be arsed wiping, then hell no.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisso View Post
    My guild was/is in the exact same situation, where they were stuck on normal horridon for a few months now with no real progress happening. They ultimately stopped raiding all together. I'm personally looking for another guild right now, or at least a raiding group I can rely on. I wasn't playing with my guild to begin with, but if I were to be stuck on Horridon for more than a week, I would look for solutions, or replace the slackers, or change guild because the whole group is just not cutting it as a whole.

    I dislike being in a group that doesn't progress, but I HATE being in a group that just don't care at all. Going back to old content isn't an option. It's basicly admitting defeat and be fine with it. It's, to me, a proof that the group you are raiding with isn't interested at all.
    Not trying to sound like a jerk, but how do you get stuck on normal horridon for a few months... xD

  10. #10
    Do the raids that you guild can handle, not just what everyone else is doing. It builds skills and confidence.

    Would I leave? depends how i felt about the guild and the atmosphere of the group.

  11. #11
    You can get 500+ ilvl in 2-4 weeks after hitting 90 doing no normal raids at all. Doing T14 just seems like a waste of time. If I couldn't talk sense into the RL then I'd definitely leave, yeah.

  12. #12
    If you're getting stuck on normal horridon it isn't because you lack gear, and no amount of time spent in old content is going to help you.

    If you want progress more than your guild does convince your guild to change or find another one.

  13. #13
    Why would you do old content normals when you can do LFR and get better gear???

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Lefeng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokatii View Post
    Not trying to sound like a jerk, but how do you get stuck on normal horridon for a few months... xD
    Simple - some players are just less skilled than others.

    I had a similar situation. When 5.2 went live, my guild was only 9/16 in the 5.0 raids. We had a solid membership but had some REALLY unskilled players that literally died on every attempt of every boss. It felt like a huge accomplishment if we all survived an encounter intact. We tried Jin'rokh and gave up after 6 hours of wipes. The officers decided to go back and complete the 5.0 raids in the following weeks. When we got stuck on Amber Shaper Un'sok I decided I was done beating my head against the wall trying to be patient with raiders that can't step out of fire or couldn't grasp simple concepts like "switch DPS to the add." I left to join another guild who at the time was 2/12 in ToT but quickly progressed with a relatively stable membership of good players.

    Someone above said you have two options - change the guild's goals and standards or find a new guild that matches your goals and standards. That's basically all you can do.

  15. #15
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    If the guild wasn't progressing and I felt it was going back to old raids because of needing to help people who should already have been up to par; then yes, I might consider leaving - if I was in the guild for progression in the first place. It really depends why I joined that guild, and how I saw other players performing in it though. If I really saw potential and I thought it would only be 1-2 weeks max out I might stay, if I was in the guild for social reasons and the atmosphere was good then I would definitely stay... but at the end of the day people can gear up in previous tiers on off nights, taking the main raiding night off to go backwards doesn't seem like a progression guild.
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  16. #16
    I would absolutely leave. If the gear they already had plus LFR and Valor gear isn't enough, they're not going to cut it even after they get all the gear they need from the previous tier.

    Of course, I already know your Horridon situation from your other thread. No amount of gear will make up for bad play, so I'd have quit long before going back to old raids became an issue.

    Long story short: If I'm going to do older raids, it'll be on openraid, where anyone and everyone can find T14 pugs pretty much every day of the week. I'm not going to spend progression raid days on old content except in very specific situations.

  17. #17
    If the guilds raiding goals and individual raid members raiidng goals start to shift its inevitable some people will leave guild - after all , all of us pay for the game and if raiding stops to bring fun aspect for them - something needs to change - from my experience - its healthy to sometimes change raiding enviroment (note i say ometimes not guild hop all the time -_-) - what is important is to be adult and leave guild in grown up not in whining baby "u all suck" style cause maybe with time ull miss those people enough to go back and its never good to burn bridges behind yourself.

    And about going back to ToT - if u have way to much time on your hands and if 20 % nerf will hit HCs too - its a good idea to gear up your OS there in initial month or 2
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2013-09-09 at 06:33 PM.

  18. #18
    My old guild almost went this road. The problem I had with it was that the lesser geared people never put effort in to even try and gear themselves for tier 15. If you're not self-motivated to get the best gear you can on your own and just want carried through content then your raid team isn't for me.

  19. #19
    The Patient Volbian's Avatar
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    Gear has nothing to do with skill. What i hate most is players who think gear is the reason why they cant overcome certain obstacles. Horridon is a mechanic fight. If you dont have the interrupts or dispells then its not gonna happen.

    Back to question, i pay $15 to do what i enjoy, and that is raiding and progressing. If a guild isnt doing current content or group is bad, then i'd leave too. Going back to old content only for achs is the only reason i'd go back, maybe. Horridon has been nerfed 2x since TOT released. There's no point why any competent guild cant down it by now.

  20. #20
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    It would really depend on the people who were in need of the gear. If they were active, nice players who contributed and commited to the guild I'd have no issue helping them if it meant a week or two doing a previous tier, but if they're just newcomers who've yet to show any kind of desire to be a real part of the team, or they're generally just slackers, I'd rather quit.

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