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  1. #1

    5.4 Dual wield question

    I've searched the forums, and have gotten many answers just wondering to clarify it at the start of the patch should we be gemming straight mastery or waiting out until we get the amp trinket from Thok.. Coming from a 540 ilvl FDK


    Edit. Also I forgot to ask is the new stat priority is Mastery>Crit>haste
    Last edited by Useds; 2013-09-10 at 02:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Sim yourself once the new sim profile comes out tomorrow to determine your own star weights. In 580 BiS gear you should be gemming straight mastery. Stat priorities are mastery > crit > haste => hit over cap but you need to sim yourself to make sure you have the same stat priorities.

  3. #3
    The Patient Nedda's Avatar
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    It depends on how much Frost Strike damage you want to do. My last PTR dummy tests showed that full mastery gems increase (my) FS dmg by almost 10%, but everything else either stays nearly the same or is reduced a bit, even HB (551 w/o T15 pieces). So overall it's more or less +/- 0 without the AMP trinket.

    Stat priority is correct.

  4. #4
    Before anyone jumps my sh!t, I use EJ for a lot of my DK information and its really helped me become a better DK so take what I post here with a grain of sand or at least check into it and try out and see if the info works for you.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t132171-...ts_and_Gearing

    Two Handed Stat Priority
    Strength > Yellow Hit to Cap = Expertise to Cap > Crit > Mastery >= Haste

    Dual Wield Stat Priority
    Strength > Yellow Hit to Cap = Expertise to Cap > Mastery > Crit > Haste >= Hit over Cap


    Please keep in mind these stat weights use BiS gear, and the default simcraft profile, which includes the legendary meta, and legendary cloak and the amp/CD trinket. This means a changed race, talent, or gear, in particular trinkets and weapon, will change the stat values. I've seen far too many people trying to use these weights for characters that are 50 ilvls under BiS. I highly recommend running the sim with your own character to see stat weights for your character.

    Realistic sim:

    580 DW
    Strength 7.77
    Yellow Hit 13.34
    Expertise 13.26
    Haste 3.43
    Mastery 5.21
    Crit 4.41
    Hit Over Yellow 2.97

    580 2H
    Strength 6.46
    Yellow Hit 9.39
    Expertise 9.37
    Haste 3.39
    Mastery 3.65
    Crit 4.27
    Hit Over Yellow -
    Last edited by Nyteyes; 2013-09-10 at 08:18 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyteyes View Post
    Realistic sim:

    580 DW
    Absolutely no contradiction... oh wait.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  6. #6
    I wonder how many 2h frost players will be gemmed full crit by this afternoon......

  7. #7
    I've never understood why people put out stat weights for BiS gear. By the time someone has BiS gear to use those stat weights, they have killed the whole tier, and stat weights no longer matter, except for ranking logs.

    No offense Nyteyes, I think it is an issue across the wow community.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Absolutely no contradiction... oh wait.
    By 'realistic' I assume the meaning is that the sim is light movement with AMS soaking included. Not 'realistic' levels of gear...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dkdk View Post
    I've never understood why people put out stat weights for BiS gear.
    Stat weights change with gear, and an easy way to predict what might be going on in the middle of the spectrum is to first determine what happens at both ends of it.

    I agree though, bis sims don't provide a lot of useful information.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiira View Post
    Stat weights change with gear, and an easy way to predict what might be going on in the middle of the spectrum is to first determine what happens at both ends of it.

    I agree though, bis sims don't provide a lot of useful information.
    I feel like the end up doing a lot of damage within the community. You end up with people following the wrong stat weights for a whole tier due to askmrrobot taking BiS no movement weights and leaving them up a whole tier. The average wow player has no idea the complexity behind stat weights, and so many people just take whatever they are given as gospel.

    I suppose you are correct, they are a bit more useful when you take them as a portion of the whole. The issue is you have people throwing around BiS weights with no reference and then people thinking "BiS is the best so that must be what I should use".

  11. #11
    What would you propose we tell the community to do? I have been telling people to sim personal weights for years and I'm far from the only one, and many class guides that provide stat weights also advise simming your own. Anyone who hasn't started simming personal weights yet probably just doesn't care about optimizing their damage at that level.

    I don't feel like I have any responsibility to help others or be concerned by their level of play if they aren't trying to improve.

  12. #12
    I don't have a solution. Its just too bad that BiS weights get thrown around the most. Especially since the people that are most likely to blindly follow them are the people who are furthest from that level of gear and probably will never see the inside of a heroic instance. This is not a death knight specific problem, nor do I think we could find a magical solution to make it not an issue.

    I suppose what it really comes down to is the fact that stat weights, when taken out of context, have close to no meaning and so many people put a lot of meaning into them. The day when someone can hop on a website, give it their toons name and have it throw out personal stat weights is the day when people stop blindly following the weights that people post.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    I wonder how many 2h frost players will be gemmed full crit by this afternoon......
    Haha, exactly what I thought, too.

  14. #14
    Everyone who can raid can educate themselves if they want to.

    If they don't want to, that's fine. This doesn't have to be a problem.

    One thing I think a lot of people here don't appreciate is how disconnected our culture of theorycrafting and optimisation is from the way that most people approach the game.

    Most of the lfr crowd probably don't understand what stat weights refer to, and that's fine because the content targeted at them doesn't require the knowledge. They're playing sub optimally in a variety of ways and it doesn't matter.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Absolutely no contradiction... oh wait.
    Good thing you took the time to read the very first line of my post. I don't care if you like the information I shared or not. Its what I use for my information and the OP asked for information regarding the stats so I shared what I know and where I got it from. Next time just don't even reply or ignore the thread completely if that's the only type of comment you can come up with.

  16. #16
    I'm changed nearly every gem to 320 mastery(like warriors crit, but the colors match to the gear to get the gear strength bonus) and it's a minor dps increase. I have tested the first 3 flex boss, and I'm doing pretty well. Whit this I always do more dps than the other DW frost dk, and he has a 20+ilvl but the geming are different.
    So yeah, I'm a happy DK now.

  17. #17
    If the other dk has 20 item levels on you and you're out damaging him it's not because of your gems.

  18. #18
    Yah, but i do more damage with this nearly full mastery build than the previos one wehre i used 80strenght 160 mastery

  19. #19
    I simmed a 2k dps loss gemming all Mastery in my current gear (236 ilvl). For grins I regemmed anyway, and as I have yet to raid with the new setup, I can say things died faster solo. That's very subjective though. Simcraft is jerking me around, in STR gems Mastery was stronger than STR point for point, swapping over to Mastery Str is greater than Mastery.

    So untill you get the tier bonuses and trinkets, you can likely go either way and not really see much difference.

  20. #20
    Pit Lord Forgettable's Avatar
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    Here's a nice article Mendenbarr recently put out regarding 5.4:

    http://destinysoftworks.blogspot.ca/...ity-in-54.html

    TL DR You should be aiming for balance. STR = 2xCRIT = 2xHASTE = 2xMASTERY
    Example: 22000 STR, 11000 CRIT, 11000 HASTE, 11000 MASTERY
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

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