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  1. #1

    Blizzard's Bad Villains

    How come Blizzard has such crappy development when it comes to villains?

    For example:

    - Arthas: A story from a prince trying to protect his people and punish the responsible for corruption, ironic that he becase corrupted himself.

    - Illidan: The character did everything to save his lands and people, the method were questioned and therefore banished.

    - Dreadlords: Such wonderfull creatures... They were smart, cunning, manipulative and still gives me the chill every time I see one of thoose. (That's why I love to finish the quest line against Scarlet Onslaught in Icecrown).

    - Gul'dan: My top fauvorite villain of all time in Warcraft Universe. That evil son of a b**** even sold his own people to the Burning Legion, in order to be even more powerfull that anyone could imagine. With the help of the Shadow Council, he truelly got his plans completed. All it took was finesse and cunning.


    What did we recieve lately?
    - Deathwing: "ROAAAR!!! I will crush Azeroth! ROAAAAAR!!!!"
    - Garrosh: Yet another reckless and hot headed who thinks he can crush the world.

    I mean seriously, who even gave a damn about Deathwing or does it now in the present? Same faith is waiting for Garrosh. It's like 15 minutes of fame, than forgotten... People still loving the previous villains because they weren't only out to crush the world. They used cunning and manipulative ways. Who ever played WC3 remembers that, such an evil act as turning people into undead / zombies , were only to prepare an massive BL invasion. Which villain has done such an act, which only would be "step 1" to rule Azeroth?

    I honestly believe Blizzard is starting to give up on villain aspects... They focus way too much on pleasing respective faction leaders instead (which most people still don't appreciate as much Blizzard hoped for, like dave kosak said in a phone interview).

  2. #2
    Truth is, if deathwing and garrosh would have been story lines in rts warcraft first, no one would qq and everyone would be as gung ho about them as they would lich king and illidan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post
    How come Blizzard has such crappy development when it comes to villains?

    For example:

    - Arthas: A story from a prince trying to protect his people and punish the responsible for corruption, ironic that he becase corrupted himself.

    - Illidan: The character did everything to save his lands and people, the method were questioned and therefore banished.

    - Dreadlords: Such wonderfull creatures... They were smart, cunning, manipulative and still gives me the chill every time I see one of thoose. (That's why I love to finish the quest line against Scarlet Onslaught in Icecrown).

    - Gul'dan: My top fauvorite villain of all time in Warcraft Universe. That evil son of a b**** even sold his own people to the Burning Legion, in order to be even more powerfull that anyone could imagine. With the help of the Shadow Council, he truelly got his plans completed. All it took was finesse and cunning.


    What did we recieve lately?
    - Deathwing: "ROAAAR!!! I will crush Azeroth! ROAAAAAR!!!!"
    - Garrosh: Yet another reckless and hot headed who thinks he can crush the world.

    I mean seriously, who even gave a damn about Deathwing or does it now in the present? Same faith is waiting for Garrosh. It's like 15 minutes of fame, than forgotten... People still loving the previous villains because they weren't only out to crush the world. They used cunning and manipulative ways. Who ever played WC3 remembers that, such an evil act as turning people into undead / zombies , were only to prepare an massive BL invasion. Which villain has done such an act, which only would be "step 1" to rule Azeroth?

    I honestly believe Blizzard is starting to give up on villain aspects... They focus way too much on pleasing respective faction leaders instead (which most people still don't appreciate as much Blizzard hoped for, like dave kosak said in a phone interview).
    Only thing that sucked about deathwing was that WE didnt kill him, and HOW he was killed.

  3. #3
    Only thing that sucked about deathwing was that WE didnt kill him, and HOW he was killed.
    correct me if I'm wrong (which I truelly do), weren't Tirion the one who defeated the lich king? He broke frostmourne, Terenas got released and resurected us.
    Weren't Maiev and Akama the one who also came into the fight to finish off Illidan?

    That dragon aspect joined the assault against Deathwing, were to me a defenetive good choice. One of the aspects gone mad, other aspects are there to stop him once and for all. And how Thrall's development went, well think they thought of Medan too much.

    if deathwing and garrosh would have been story lines in rts warcraft first
    Well, technically, Gul'dan were in Warcraft 1, but how much impact did he personally have, to leave such a big history behind, even for future warcraft universe, long after his death? He's mostly in novels but most people still know him.

  4. #4
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Ever since the story arches of WC3 ended, warcraft has taken a nose dive in terms of the quality of its storytelling.

    Back in WC3, you had some great characters and development around them, Arthas and his rise and fall from grace to that of a lich, and eventually the lich king. Thrall and his freeing of the orcs and leading them to there salvation, as well as rebuilding the horde with the new races as tauren and trolls. Grom hellscream and his path of doubt, self corruption and eventually noble sacrifice, and loads of other events.

    What made warcraft great back then, was because the developers seemed more focused on making a good story and actually developing its characters already in the story. Taking what was already there from the previous WC games, they took things like orcs, and gave them depth and backstory. They made the white knight Arthas into a dark figure, and overall, they just seemed to care about the story more then the high quality of the game itself. Really, WC3 was the pinnacle of warcrafts storytelling.

    What happened when wow came around, was the developers just played off of what they already made in WC3 and its characters and world, and developed an mmo around that. We all knew the characters from WC3, we all loved them, because they were characters we recognised, and so wow didn't need to focus as much on there development.

    But as wow moved along, by the time it got to Wrath, and the death of Arthas and the end of his story, blizzard decided to try and move the direction of the story of warcraft in a new direction, one more suited for the MMO format warcraft had become...

    and it sucked. Since they made this direction, and told us how the game comes before the lore, it became very obvious this was the case, they began to show how they cared more about developing the game, then any passion to the story. They took once loved characters, uprooted them, changed them, turn them on there heads, and the reaction was as you expect, ones that survived from the WC3 days, like Thrall, Deathwing, Tyrande, Jaina, Malfurion, all of them fell victim to the neglect the developers put on them, and it was seen. Thrall was no longer the endearing warchief but a super shaman? Deathwing was no longer the charismatic manipulator but a mindless thing tearing up the land? Jaina was no longer the wise and free thinking mage but a single minded racist? And Tyrande no longer the fearce warrior but a fish wife for Malfurion.

    It became obvious, blizzard lost focus a while ago. they merely played off there development of WC3 for previous expansions, and when they tried to do things there own way within the limits of the mmo format they choose to follow, much like how george lucas tried to revamp the starwars franchise, or Steven Spielberg tried to make a new indiana jones.. it failed, and is becoming more and more obvious as time goes on.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  5. #5
    Arthas was a case of good villain developement?

    If I recall reading the book on his ascension to villainhood as written by Christie Golden, aproximately 95% of his motivation that led to his shift of goals is attributed to a MASSIVE case of butthurt stemming from the fact that he murdered his beloved horsie just because it broke two legs.

    ASTOUNDING!

  6. #6
    Brewmaster GuniorBinda's Avatar
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    Lol

    Deathwing was similar to Arthas in some ways. He fell to the whispers of the Old Gods during his duty as Earth-Warder (protect the world).
    Arthas fell because he succumbed to the Lich King whilst trying to defend his future kingdom.

    Garrosh is similar to Illidan in some ways. His ultimate goal is a glorious future for the orcs (to protect his brethren), but the way he wants to achieve that is unacceptable which is why we have to take him out.

    But then there are indeed characteristic differences between each villain. Whereas Illidan was a calculating mastermind and saw the potential danger the demons brought with them, Garrosh is young, hotheaded and too foolish to see the power of the Alliance and the rebels as a threat, which is why his 'crushing of the world' seems unstoppable to him.

    And I pretty much agree with Trassk above.
    I guess they could make up for that with the storywriters of WC3 writing books about current plots and really flesh them out off-screen, so that they might 'redeem' themselves?.
    Last edited by GuniorBinda; 2013-09-09 at 04:33 PM.

  7. #7
    I've never really cared for any villain after WotLK. Never knew who Deathwing was, and the game did a very poor job telling me who he is. I didn't look forward to fight Nefarian, Onyxia and Ragnaros... AGAIN. Sinestra wasn't mentioned anywhere, except a small cameo in Outland. Cho'gall is the only one who made me interested to go kill him. Al'akir.... who? Uldum was about Indiana Jones, not Al'akir!

  8. #8
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    I was more eager and excited for Deathwing than I was for Lich King, since Deathwing was always bigger and more important business to take care of. Oh how they butchered the poor fellow.

    WoW has had very few good villain, I think Garrosh is one of the few good ones, even if he has a super awkward progression through his story. It's sad, whenever they're handed amazing potential like Lich King, Illidan and Deathwing they just flop it majorly. It's too bad that WoW has handled such great lore in such a shitty way. One should never play WoW for lore, since that's always been its weakest element.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Rhywolver's Avatar
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    Just wait what happens with Wrathion. He just wants to save Azeroth, too.

  10. #10
    High Overlord Kalodrei's Avatar
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    Arthas - i love arthas story from the start till the end , he did everything he could to save his people even tho he destroyed them (If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you ) the path to hell is paved with good intentions .

    illidan - he wasnt a vilian , illidan was an anti hero
    She was everything to me. But they took her. And with her, they took my kindness and my mercy. That was their mistake, because now, all I’ve got left is a cold heart. They thrive on doubt. They feast on fear. These wretched abominations blight this world, and every last one of them will perish by my hand.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Ever since the story arches of WC3 ended, warcraft has taken a nose dive in terms of the quality of its storytelling.
    MoP has better lore telling then most of the expansions.
    EU ~ Outland

  12. #12
    I guess Blizzard is more talented in creating stories than in communicating them in WoW. Look at Illidan and Deathwing, they had an amazing development before they became the main antagonist of their respective expansion, but then... well, they were the bad guys we had to destroy, end of story.
    Same with Garrosh, he is an interesting character in the Cata books by Christie Golden. Not a black vilain, but a grey one. And then in MoP he just turns into a crazy motherfucker using an old god's heart without any moral issue but disgusted by warlocks. What the fuck dude.
    Arthas was the exception though, I loved his in-game development.

  13. #13
    The only BAD character I agree with you is Deathwing... he was utterly butchered in Cataclysm. I expected to see the cunning ,treacherous tactician, and what we got was simply a 'ROAAAARRRR DRAGON!" stuff we simply didn't care about. One of the reasons I hated Cataclysm so much.

    But we have some good stuff coming from WoW itself. Garrosh is an interesting villain; maybe his downfall was a bit quick, but his development as a whole was nice. There is the Old Gods, which came almost entirely from WoW, apart from a bit of story in the Well of Eternity.

    It would be nice having another RTS to expand the lore a bit, anyway. We end up killing stuff too quickly in the MMO, because we must have new bosses to kill every 6 months or so. Having new characters rising in a Warcraft 4 would be very nice, because they would have time to sink in with the community. Which is one of the reasons Arthas and Illidan are so well loved.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Madruga View Post
    It would be nice having another RTS to expand the lore a bit, anyway. We end up killing stuff too quickly in the MMO, because we must have new bosses to kill every 6 months or so. Having new characters rising in a Warcraft 4 would be very nice, because they would have time to sink in with the community. Which is one of the reasons Arthas and Illidan are so well loved.
    Have you played the other RTS from Blizz recently? It's called Starcraft 2 and the story really sucks compared to Starcraft 1. What makes you think that the same people can make a better story for a Warcraft RTS?

    And I don't really know what is going on. The story gets constantly worse. Every major character we know from previous games acts totally out of character in every new game. Just take a look at what they've done to Anub'arak or Arthas in WotLK... or Illidan/Kael'thas/Vashj in BC. The whole starting point of WoW sucks from the perspective of the Warcraft 3 storyline.

    In Starcraft 2 everyone acts totally out of character, too. With no defining reason why they are acting so different now.

    What the hell is going on?!

    There are little gems of storytelling or storylines all over WoW, but as soon as Blizzard tocuhes anything from the previous games they fuck it up.
    Last edited by Hubbl3; 2013-09-09 at 05:49 PM.
    I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn, they will be gone - whispering their hidden song...

  15. #15
    Wrathion is one of the most interesting I have seen from WarCraft despite not being a villian. He is a lot better than most WC3's characters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Have you played the other RTS from Blizz recently? It's called Starcraft 2 and the story really sucks compared to Starcraft 1. What makes you think that the same people can make a better story for a Warcraft RTS?

    And I don't really know what is going on. The story gets constantly worse. Every major character we know from previous games acts totally out of character in every new game. Just take a look at what they've done to Anub'arak or Arthas in WotLK... or Illidan/Kael'thas/Vashj in BC. The whole starting point of WoW sucks from the perspective of the Warcraft 3 storyline.

    In Starcraft 2 everyone acts totally out of character, too. With no defining reason why they are acting so different now.

    What the hell is going on?!

    There are little gems of storytelling or storylines all over WoW, but as soon as Blizzard tocuhes anything from the previous games they fuck it up.
    I don't know but I like SC2's story. I don't really agree with people sayin that Raynor or Kerrigan acting out of their character in BW too. The most common part that people point out is how Raynor seemed to be soft on Kerrigan when he swore to kill her in SC1 but people often forget what Blizzard really wants to highlight. In SC2 and the novels it is pointed out that Raynor is really human. He was struggling with his past and decision. What he swore to do wasn't what he wants to do. I like this. It shows how real human is. We are not without emotions. In the end it comes down to what his father told him "A man is what he choose to be".

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Restors View Post

    - Illidan: The character did everything to save his lands and people, the method were questioned and therefore banished.
    He wanted to become a Hero of his people, not save them directly.

    small difference.

    For Illidan, his own profit was always first in line, he saved someone to get the glory, not to save his/her life.

    Illidan is a character that is very often glorified for no actual reason.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  17. #17
    Oh c'mon, their storytelling was never THAT great.

    Arthas: I will do anything to save my kingdom... ANYTHING!
    Ner'zhul: Nah bro, you should just destroy it and kill everyone.
    Arthas: 'kay.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Wrathion is one of the most interesting I have seen from WarCraft despite not being a villian. He is a lot better than most WC3's characters.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't know but I like SC2's story. I don't really agree with people sayin that Raynor or Kerrigan acting out of their character in BW too. The most common part that people point out is how Raynor seemed to be soft on Kerrigan when he swore to kill her in SC1 but people often forget what Blizzard really wants to highlight. In SC2 and the novels it is pointed out that Raynor is really human. He was struggling with his past and decision. What he swore to do wasn't what he wants to do. I like this. It shows how real human is. We are not without emotions. In the end it comes down to what his father told him "A man is what he choose to be".
    Oh, I can understand why Raynor would forgive Kerrigan. The whole "I will kill you" thing he said in rage was never the point. Even the love story between them (I've never read the books, but the signals in SC where pretty clear).

    I would recommend to read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=402932 =)
    I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn, they will be gone - whispering their hidden song...

  19. #19
    I'm just sad that they dropped the ball on Deathwing's previous cunning manipulator character in favour of "RWAAARGH!! DRAGON!!!!"

  20. #20
    Some people really need to go back and play WC3 again, the storytelling there isn't much different from what we got in WoW, it's nothing special.

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