5.4 Trinket + non-BiS Gearing Discussion

[Kael]

Now open for business.

Please follow the general format of the 5.2 trinket thread - avoid Q&A questions; feel free to make a new thread if you want to ask about your specific character. This thread should follow general trends, and comparisons of specific pieces like trinkets available in the tier.

This post will be updated as hallmark posts are added.

Thanks!

-Mugajak

REGARDING BIS: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5-5-4-BiS-List

[Deleted]

As an assassination rogue, what trinkets will u be using? AoC and Ebon Detonator or Haromn's Talisman?

[fierydemise]

As an assassination rogue, what trinkets will u be using? AoC and Ebon Detonator or Haromn's Talisman?

On paper:
1) Harom's
2) TED
3) AoC

In practice I expect to see a lot of assassination rogues running Harom's and AoC because AoC isn't that far behind (<1%) TED, isn't RPPM so will probably be better for a lust on pull style boss because of the guaranteed proc and provides a fair amount of utility with the sprint and cloak cd reduction.

[xezar]

Is it worth requesting a restoration for my Timeless Curio to get the 535 Discipline of Xuen? Forgot with the stupid damn things you couldn't open it for the item inside if you wanted to upgrade it >.>

My other 2 trinkets are only 522s (Shado-Pan rep and Bad Voodoo), and I'm not in a regular raiding group (more like group B, but in a not-as-cool way), so I won't be seeing most of normal SoO stuff regardless. Flex maybe as they come out, but nothing beyond that.

[Coldkil]

On paper:
1) Harom's
2) TED
3) AoC

In practice I expect to see a lot of assassination rogues running Harom's and AoC because AoC isn't that far behind (<1%) TED, isn't RPPM so will probably be better for a lust on pull style boss because of the guaranteed proc and provides a fair amount of utility with the sprint and cloak cd reduction.

I think i'll pass over AoC frst time because the other rogue in roster is combat and he will get a much higher dps increase from it - so i'm focusing on Harom and TED. Anyway, if it happens that another one drops i'll take it and try it.

The utility and the possibility to align better the cooldowns with fight phases is surely valued a lot.

[ymirsson]

Is it worth requesting a restoration for my Timeless Curio to get the 535 Discipline of Xuen? Forgot with the stupid damn things you couldn't open it for the item inside if you wanted to upgrade it >.>

My other 2 trinkets are only 522s (Shado-Pan rep and Bad Voodoo), and I'm not in a regular raiding group (more like group B, but in a not-as-cool way), so I won't be seeing most of normal SoO stuff regardless. Flex maybe as they come out, but nothing beyond that.

You can't upgrade the trinket with a Timeless Burden, you need to buy the 535 version from the vendor.

[xezar]

You can't upgrade the trinket with a Timeless Burden, you need to buy the 535 version from the vendor.

Really? That's stupid...oh well.

[Deleted]

Should i change my hc TF renataki for a normal TED? or wait until HC TED or Haromn?

[kilj]

disciple of xuen 543 trinket better than the 530 bad juju?

[DakonBlackblade]

Kinda trying to decide if flexible AoC is better than heroic Bad Juju, shadowcraft says the first is like 300 dps better than the second. Im assassination btw.

[Eazy]

I'm pretty sure heroic raiding isn't a thing for me, I'm still not sure about normal and flex, so there's my question: would I have biggest DPS from Raid Finder level BiS items? Or should I consider getting Burdens of Eternity on Timeless isle?(Raid Finder -> 528 iLvL, TI items with BoE -> 535 iLvL)

[ymirsson]

Ask ShC, but unless it's tier items, ilvl should have an advantage.

[Coldkil]

I dropped for the second time the AoC - on normal this time (fff i needed the tier chest!)

While it's theoretically behind Haromm and TED for assassination, the reduced cooldowns are REALLY a great thing. More sprint and more cloaks can make a difference sometimes. Anyway, i'm going to look up at the other two, and try them if they drop. Anyway, i think getting used to shorter cooldowns is something i'll have difficulties to pass over.

[Deleted]

While it's theoretically behind Haromm and TED for assassination, the reduced cooldowns are REALLY a great thing. More sprint and more cloaks can make a difference sometimes.

AoC can be pretty good for fights like garrosh, you can have much better uptime on boss with it

[DakonBlackblade]

I dropped for the second time the AoC - on normal this time (fff i needed the tier chest!)

While it's theoretically behind Haromm and TED for assassination, the reduced cooldowns are REALLY a great thing. More sprint and more cloaks can make a difference sometimes. Anyway, i'm going to look up at the other two, and try them if they drop. Anyway, i think getting used to shorter cooldowns is something i'll have difficulties to pass over.

Im thinking the same thing, DPSwise there might be better choices but that reduced Cloak of Shadows CD is awesome, on garrosh I never get hit by any Whirling Corruptions. Also I basicaly have sprints on demand, even on fights I need to sprint a lot I can still safetly slot Shadowstep now and solve everything with the reduced CD Sprint.

[Yodawinfrey]

So spoils of rampage would be more or less a side grade compared to heroic rentaks/bad juju? Doesn't seem like it would be really great on any fight as adds die particularly quick. Garrosh so far is the only place I could even imagine it may be decent.

[fierydemise]

Talked with Latinoheatt from Pie Chart about amp trinkets last night and since I'm sure he won't be the only one who sees this a quick comment on the amp trinket and why it isn't worth using/why ShadowCraft is correct.

What Latinoheatt did was sum up the crit damage from an encounter, multiply by 0.07 and divide by the encounter length and you'll see some dps value around 12K. This looks really good because you are only considering part of the trinket and that on its own grants around 12K. There are a couple problems with this, first the trinket doesn't really increase your crit damage by 7%. What this trinket does is change your crit modifier from 2x to 2.07x, so really the net increase to crit damage is actually 1.035x rather than 1.07x. This makes things look a bit less rosy but still 6K from just 1 part of the trinket seems pretty good, add in another 3-4K for the haste and crit each and then the proc and you end up with a trinket worth about 16K dps, which brings us to the second issue. Using raw dps values is misleading (and it confused me for a bit too) because we don't normally think of trinkets in DPS values but rather EP values, if you consider raw dps values the ShadowCraft ranking looks about right. Go into ShadowCraft an unequip a trinket and you'll see something on the order of a 20-25K dps loss for ToT heroic trinkets and 25-30K range for SoO normal trinkets, viewed in that context its clear that while the approximately 16K from Thok's tail tip is a solid amount of dps its clearly weaker than comparable ilvl trinket.

All of this is to say, Thok's Tail Tip is not a trinket you should consider using as a rogue and ShadowCraft is correct.

As a side note because it doesn't really matter that much, the normal amp trinket isn't actually 7% but rather 7.0009% as described here: http://healiocentric.wordpress.com/2...inkets-in-5-4/ but 7% is much nicer to do computation on than 7.0009%.

[Kulestu]

I really dislike that Blizzard couldn't be bothered to give us an amp trinket.

Either way, sigil+cloak+blade flurry is gonna be nuts.

[Abrumelin]

I have a similar question. Granted Im not in any heroic TOT gear but I have Normal RSC and RF Bad juju. I got AOC out of RF SOO and Im stuck as to what to do. ON raiding dummies and then on trash AOC seemed weak compared to RF bad juju. I tried to use AoC with RSC and it seemed weak. I have not tried RF bad juju with AOC yet but overall it seeme like im getting better dps from bad juju than AOC.
How should I approach this?

[ymirsson]

Crossreference your experience of the trinkets with shadowcraft results and do what you deem best.