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  1. #1

    What spec will you be defaulting to in SoO

    Rogues are the last in priority to get tier gear in my guild tomorrow, Should we be going combat and getting AoC, or Will Mut still be better even with the shadowblades nerf?

    What spec are you guys defaulting to for normal modes? I know that you'll play the best spec for the fight, but like if both specs are good what will you play?


    Cheers

  2. #2
    Assassination. It's always much easier to hit sim DPS as Assassination over Combat and Sub and they're already all simming very close to each other, and Combat will require AoC to be good and Assassination is already easier to play for progression. It's more forgiving and at the top-end, you don't lose any damage anyways.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by AscSinister View Post
    Rogues are the last in priority to get tier gear in my guild tomorrow, Should we be going combat and getting AoC, or Will Mut still be better even with the shadowblades nerf?

    What spec are you guys defaulting to for normal modes? I know that you'll play the best spec for the fight, but like if both specs are good what will you play?


    Cheers
    What shadow blades nerf? There's nothing in the patch notes on either official or unofficial about it.

    Seems like combat is taking a pretty big 5.3->5.4 nerf off the bat though.

  4. #4
    Combat with AoC should be roughly equal to assassination in terms of overall dps however until you get AoC combat will be 10-15% behind.

    I'll be running assassination because my guild has other people who can also use agi 1hers (brm, ww, enh) plus enough cleave classes that I'm not convinced we need the extra cleave damage given the rest of our roster.
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    Combat with AoC should be roughly equal to assassination in terms of overall dps however until you get AoC combat will be 10-15% behind.

    I'll be running assassination because my guild has other people who can also use agi 1hers (brm, ww, enh) plus enough cleave classes that I'm not convinced we need the extra cleave damage given the rest of our roster.
    But that's equal damage in a sim. That's not counting the fact that Assassination will outperform Combat on any fight where there's downtime on the boss and poisons tick, or any situation where you'll lose a few seconds on CDs coming up as Combat due to a mechanic or something, and I would assume that there's still a degree of impossibility in nailing the rotation with the haste that Combat will see in 5.4, especially during AR, which will be up more often because of AoC.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    But that's equal damage in a sim. That's not counting the fact that Assassination will outperform Combat on any fight where there's downtime on the boss and poisons tick, or any situation where you'll lose a few seconds on CDs coming up as Combat due to a mechanic or something, and I would assume that there's still a degree of impossibility in nailing the rotation with the haste that Combat will see in 5.4, especially during AR, which will be up more often because of AoC.
    Once we start dropping the 4pc (and even 2pc t15+2pc t16 isn't -that- far behind, and could probably turn out to a gain in real scenario situations) the rotation will become easier to mantian.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulestu View Post
    But that's equal damage in a sim. That's not counting the fact that Assassination will outperform Combat on any fight where there's downtime on the boss and poisons tick, or any situation where you'll lose a few seconds on CDs coming up as Combat due to a mechanic or something, and I would assume that there's still a degree of impossibility in nailing the rotation with the haste that Combat will see in 5.4, especially during AR, which will be up more often because of AoC.
    T16 combat will be easier to do than T15 combat even with T15 4pc because of the T15 4pc nerf. The problem in T15 was that because you saturated the GCD latency added to your effective GCD, since combat will no longer be able to saturate a .5 second GCD with the T15 4pc nerf this will become much less of an issue. Combat will still be fast and you will be punished for extended lag spikes but having a latency of over 100ms will no longer be a major dps loss.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Once we start dropping the 4pc (and even 2pc t15+2pc t16 isn't -that- far behind, and could probably turn out to a gain in real scenario situations) the rotation will become easier to mantian.
    If you were planning to run combat full time your probably going to want to pass on tier tokens until most people have them because you generally want 4pc with a couple of those heroic before you can drop T15 4pc for a decent dps increase. Sure 2pc+2pc may work out as dps neutral in some gear sets but taking 2pc from someone who will get a real upgrade for a sidegrade seems like a poor option.
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by fierydemise View Post
    If you were planning to run combat full time your probably going to want to pass on tier tokens until most people have them because you generally want 4pc with a couple of those heroic before you can drop T15 4pc for a decent dps increase. Sure 2pc+2pc may work out as dps neutral in some gear sets but taking 2pc from someone who will get a real upgrade for a sidegrade seems like a poor option.
    Nah, I'll probably be running assassination anyways so it will be largely useful, but it being damage neutral while making the rotation easier will certainly help if I find myself swapping.
    Fluorescent - Fluo - currently retired, playing other stuff

    i5-4670k @ 4.5 / Thermalright Silver Arrow Extreme / Gigabyte Z87X-D3H / 8GB DDR3-1600 RAM / Gigabyte GTX 760

  9. #9
    Am I the only one who doesn't called it "Mut", but instead "Ass"?

    I love going Ass spec.
    "It's clear this is another bash Apple thread. Such things are not conducive to a good discussion."

    WRONG! Those are the BEST discussions!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluorescent0 View Post
    Nah, I'll probably be running assassination anyways so it will be largely useful, but it being damage neutral while making the rotation easier will certainly help if I find myself swapping.
    Remember swapping next tier is going to require a full regem and then some, obviously not prohibitive but clearly not something you are going to want to do on a boss that takes <50 or so pulls.
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)

  11. #11
    are we suppose to be going back to full mastery as assassination?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuchLight View Post
    are we suppose to be going back to full mastery as assassination?
    If u have legendary cloak and meta, but not 2pc t16, then haste>mastery>crit, otherwise its mastery>haste>crit, until u get 2pc t16, and if u got leg cloak/meta and 2pc t16 it will be mastery=haste=crit.

    Due to the 2pc set bonus crit will be useful again, so once u have those 3 parts of your gear u should balance the 3 stats, with haste prolly being highest due to meta/cloak proccs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mybrightsky View Post
    If u have legendary cloak and meta, but not 2pc t16, then haste>mastery>crit, otherwise its mastery>haste>crit, until u get 2pc t16, and if u got leg cloak/meta and 2pc t16 it will be mastery=haste=crit.

    Due to the 2pc set bonus crit will be useful again, so once u have those 3 parts of your gear u should balance the 3 stats, with haste prolly being highest due to meta/cloak proccs.
    i thought they said that both cloak and meta wont be affected by haste anymore?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelest View Post
    i thought they said that both cloak and meta wont be affected by haste anymore?
    Neither one double dips from haste so it will still affect them.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Youarefired View Post
    Am I the only one who doesn't called it "Mut", but instead "Ass"?

    I love going Ass spec.
    Nope, you are not the only one. Besides, it IS Assassination, word Mutilate describes an entirely different spec: http://www.wowrogue.org/images/spec/...44-2-25%29.jpg

    As for the OP, I'll also most likely switch to Assassination. It does not make me happy but the spec simply does perform significantly better on most encounters.
    Last edited by Fae; 2013-09-10 at 01:20 PM.

  16. #16
    Very likely Assassination, because i'm used to it and i quite like it; the other rogue in roster is combat, so we won't steal weapons each other; i'd like to play Sub but it's simply not viable.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mybrightsky View Post
    If u have legendary cloak and meta, but not 2pc t16, then haste>mastery>crit, otherwise its mastery>haste>crit, until u get 2pc t16, and if u got leg cloak/meta and 2pc t16 it will be mastery=haste=crit.

    Due to the 2pc set bonus crit will be useful again, so once u have those 3 parts of your gear u should balance the 3 stats, with haste prolly being highest due to meta/cloak proccs.
    This is a topic that was and is debated to death, with RPPM trinkets you honestly won't be able to notice the difference between going full haste and going full mastery (I disagree personally but I'm not starting a debate about it) as your damage either way is super luck based. I'm personally continuing to push Mastery>Haste/Crit as it's been incredibly stable for me all through ToT.

    Edit:
    I totally forgot to add my spec.

    I'll be rolling Assassination, I want to roll combat for fights like Galakras but because of our TERRIBLE luck with weapons I'm still rolling with an MSV weapon. I REALLY hope weapons have a higher drop rate this tier, we got ZERO heroic/heroic TF Mag daggers in ToT.
    Last edited by Dextar; 2013-09-10 at 01:56 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuchLight View Post
    are we suppose to be going back to full mastery as assassination?
    Likely.

    RPPM boosted haste to the point it was on par with mastery, but with 5.4 nerfs haste loses some of its potential. Keep in mind that not all of the trinkets will be hit by the nerf, and for sure legendary meta and cloak will continue to work like now - it's better to just use Shadowcraft or Simcraft to check what's better.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextar View Post
    This is a topic that was and is debated to death, with RPPM trinkets you honestly won't be able to notice the difference between going full haste and going full mastery (I disagree personally but I'm not starting a debate about it) as your damage either way is super luck based.
    Quick point, because trinkets have been removed from RPPM your dps will heavily luck based whether you are haste stacking or not if you are running RPPM trinkets. The big reason RPPM trinkets caused massive dps swings added a pretty substantial amount of uptime. The meta gem and cloak have high enough proc rates that RNG swings won't impact dps too much, an additional proc when you are getting 25+ procs clearly isn't as impactful as an additional proc when you are only getting 6 or 7. There is some RNG on if the cloak procs during a big aoe section but that is independent of haste.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Likely.

    RPPM boosted haste to the point it was on par with mastery, but with 5.4 nerfs haste loses some of its potential. Keep in mind that not all of the trinkets will be hit by the nerf, and for sure legendary meta and cloak will continue to work like now - it's better to just use Shadowcraft or Simcraft to check what's better.
    General stat guidelines from ShadowCraft, obviously checking for yourself is better but if you want quick and dirty guidelines:
    No T16 2pc, No Legendary Meta or cloak
    Mastery>Haste=Crit

    No T16 2pc, Legendary Meta, No Legendary Cloak
    Mastery>Haste>Crit

    No T16 2pc, Legendary Meta, Legendary Cloak
    Haste>Mastery>Crit

    T16 2pc, No Legendary Meta or cloak
    Mastery>Crit>Haste

    T16 2pc, Legendary Meta, No Legendary Cloak
    Mastery>Crit=Haste

    T16 2pc, Legendary Meta, Legendary Cloak
    Mastery=Crit=Haste
    Fierydemise
    The Horsemen-US 25 (25 man). 9 Hours per Week.
    Rogue Chat-Blogging about Rogue PvE and Theorycrafting (Twitter)

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Naxere's Avatar
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    I'll probably stay Combat unless I get some daggers. Assassination bores me to death in PvE.

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