[5.4] Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Enjeh]

Soo yes on both cases? However which would be better, 2x 536 or 544/528? :/

[Jocias]

Mh Should I change from a 4/4 Kor'Kron Spire of Supremacy to these, one of them being 4/4 or both 2/4. Softfoot's Last Resort/Korven's Crimson Crescent? :3

This has been discussed before. Both in the last few pages of this thread as well as in the first post. Please read and do a bit of research before you ask simple questions.

Average the ilvls of your two one hand weapons by adding them together and dividing by 2. If the average is no more than 6 ilvls lower than your 2h weapon, then use the 2 1H weapons. If your 2H weapon is 6 ilvls or more above the average ilvl of your 2 1H weapons, then use the 2h weapon.

As far as upgrades, you MH weapon's damage is worth about twice as much as your OH weapons damage. So, If you have to choose between fully upgrading one or half upgrading both, you should fully upgrade your Main hand weapon. Whatever the case, you'll be upgrading the second weapon next week, I assume, so it won't matter for very long.

[Babylonius]

So as I was perusing the DPS rankings for WW I noticed that on WCL 7 of the top 10 ranked WW were using the 4pc bonus. On ProRaiders 11 of the top 25 use the 4pc including 5 of the top 5. This late in the tier, access to HWF gear shouldn't be a barrier. I was under the impression that replacing 4pc with 2pc HWF and 2pc tier was an improvement, yet nearly 50% of the top ranked WW are using the 4pc bonus, and those that are tend to make up the larger portion of the top 10.

I ran SimC with these stats;
Hit/Exp > Agi > Haste(to 13825) > Crit > Mastery=Haste
Xuen, Chi Brew, Chi Wave
Harrom's + TED, everything +16 upgraded
Light Movement, 1 target, 350s fight, 20% fight length, 25000 iterations

I chose 13825 Haste because it was roughly the average of the haste values of the top 25 ranked WW.

4pc BiS = 446,627 dps
2pc BiS = 444,464 dps

I understand that these are well within the meaningless ranges, being a 0.5% difference, that it should be a toss up. Just seems closer than I was under the impression of previously, and leans toward 4pc.

[Gaje]

So as I was perusing the DPS rankings for WW I noticed that on WCL 7 of the top 10 ranked WW were using the 4pc bonus. On ProRaiders 11 of the top 25 use the 4pc including 5 of the top 5. This late in the tier, access to HWF gear shouldn't be a barrier. I was under the impression that replacing 4pc with 2pc HWF and 2pc tier was an improvement, yet nearly 50% of the top ranked WW are using the 4pc bonus, and those that are tend to make up the larger portion of the top 10.

I ran SimC with these stats;
Hit/Exp > Agi > Haste(to 13825) > Crit > Mastery=Haste
Xuen, Chi Brew, Chi Wave
Harrom's + TED, everything +16 upgraded
Light Movement, 1 target, 350s fight, 20% fight length, 25000 iterations

I chose 13825 Haste because it was roughly the average of the haste values of the top 25 ranked WW.

4pc BiS = 446,627 dps
2pc BiS = 444,464 dps

I understand that these are well within the meaningless ranges, being a 0.5% difference, that it should be a toss up. Just seems closer than I was under the impression of previously, and leans toward 4pc.

Very interesting. Do you think that those rankings were primarily crated with Xuen, or RJW + the 4p bonus? I noticed that many were using RJW, and I can see the 4p bonus being more useful with the 1chi RJW gives.

[Callimonk]

Honestly, with the 4/4 upgrades now, the difference is almost unnoticable - it already was in the first place. I'm personally use the 4pc (granted, I never got enough HWF gear to replace it) and I do perfectly good numbers.

The thing is, the 1 Chi "save" is nice for RJW, which we use pretty often now at our haste levels. There are only a handful of fights that I *don't* use RJW on these days. Plus, you're going to be carrying more haste/mastery, so you're using TeB more - our lovely feedback loop, which is complimented by the 4pc bonus.

[Zenlogic]

So as I was perusing the DPS rankings for WW I noticed that on WCL 7 of the top 10 ranked WW were using the 4pc bonus. On ProRaiders 11 of the top 25 use the 4pc including 5 of the top 5. This late in the tier, access to HWF gear shouldn't be a barrier. I was under the impression that replacing 4pc with 2pc HWF and 2pc tier was an improvement, yet nearly 50% of the top ranked WW are using the 4pc bonus, and those that are tend to make up the larger portion of the top 10.

I ran SimC with these stats;
Hit/Exp > Agi > Haste(to 13825) > Crit > Mastery=Haste
Xuen, Chi Brew, Chi Wave
Harrom's + TED, everything +16 upgraded
Light Movement, 1 target, 350s fight, 20% fight length, 25000 iterations

I chose 13825 Haste because it was roughly the average of the haste values of the top 25 ranked WW.

4pc BiS = 446,627 dps
2pc BiS = 444,464 dps

I understand that these are well within the meaningless ranges, being a 0.5% difference, that it should be a toss up. Just seems closer than I was under the impression of previously, and leans toward 4pc.

I chose 2pc/HWF because:

4pc with my gear ~ 16086 crit / 14007 haste / 32130 agility / 4555 mastery.
2pc (what I am currently using) ~ 18250 crit / 14151 haste / 32162 agility / 2885 mastery.

The crit difference is big, haste is setup to be at or close to 33% (without the 80 agility 160 haste gem in my belt id be at 18410 crit / 13991 haste) agility is close because HWF Robes of the Blackened Watcher are RYB sockets compaired to RRR tier. The thing that kills it for me is even the little bit of wasted stat budget on mastery.

But its very close and either is fine, nothing is going to make more of an impact on your damage than lucky trinket procs / good kill times.

[Dirtdogs]

The thing is, the 1 Chi "save" is nice for RJW, which we use pretty often now at our haste levels. There are only a handful of fights that I *don't* use RJW on these days. Plus, you're going to be carrying more haste/mastery, so you're using TeB more - our lovely feedback loop, which is complimented by the 4pc bonus.

Saving Chi during AoE seems a little less useful than on single target. If your using RJW then you use a lot less BoK and no FoF so all you really save Chi on is RSK and the odd BoK. These Chi spenders have a lower priority during AoE, and you also generate less TeB when your using RJW, so you have less actual procs from the 4pc.

The 4pc is OK for having a slightly lower haste cap and the Chi it saves on BoK, RSK, and FoF... but as Zenlogic pointed out the crit from gear and less mastery on your items is very useful so I prefer 2pc/HWF for single target and AoE. Whatever you are used to seems like it would be best for single target after all, the sims show them to be so close the difference is really a non-issue.

[Grimkeg]

So as I was perusing the DPS rankings for WW I noticed that on WCL 7 of the top 10 ranked WW were using the 4pc bonus. On ProRaiders 11 of the top 25 use the 4pc including 5 of the top 5. This late in the tier, access to HWF gear shouldn't be a barrier. I was under the impression that replacing 4pc with 2pc HWF and 2pc tier was an improvement, yet nearly 50% of the top ranked WW are using the 4pc bonus, and those that are tend to make up the larger portion of the top 10.

I can only speak for Valfar and myself. At least in our case it definitely IS the access to HWF Gear. We haven't had a single HWF Chest from Norushen. We're both sitting on the HWF gloves from him. In my case I'm also missing a exp/crit HWF offpiece (bracers or boots) so I don't overcap hit when chaning to 2p.

[Imbalanced]

So as I was perusing the DPS rankings for WW I noticed that on WCL 7 of the top 10 ranked WW were using the 4pc bonus. On ProRaiders 11 of the top 25 use the 4pc including 5 of the top 5. This late in the tier, access to HWF gear shouldn't be a barrier. I was under the impression that replacing 4pc with 2pc HWF and 2pc tier was an improvement, yet nearly 50% of the top ranked WW are using the 4pc bonus, and those that are tend to make up the larger portion of the top 10.

I ran SimC with these stats;
Hit/Exp > Agi > Haste(to 13825) > Crit > Mastery=Haste
Xuen, Chi Brew, Chi Wave
Harrom's + TED, everything +16 upgraded
Light Movement, 1 target, 350s fight, 20% fight length, 25000 iterations

I chose 13825 Haste because it was roughly the average of the haste values of the top 25 ranked WW.

4pc BiS = 446,627 dps
2pc BiS = 444,464 dps

I understand that these are well within the meaningless ranges, being a 0.5% difference, that it should be a toss up. Just seems closer than I was under the impression of previously, and leans toward 4pc.

You've gotta keep in mind top 10 maybe top 25 are a horrible gauge of which setup is better. When you get that high in the rankings the epic scumbagging>>>>any gear setup.

[Babylonius]

You've gotta keep in mind top 10 maybe top 25 are a horrible gauge of which setup is better. When you get that high in the rankings the epic scumbagging>>>>any gear setup.

But since at that level it is about scumbagging the numbers are larger so a 0.5% difference is a bigger number. If everyone is in the top 10 is scumbagging then gear can have an effect. I wasn't use that evidence to show what was better, just what prompted me to take a 2nd look at it. The original numbers were 2-3% difference! now with the extra upgrades that number is much smaller.

[Totaltotemic]

But since at that level it is about scumbagging the numbers are larger so a 0.5% difference is a bigger number. If everyone is in the top 10 is scumbagging then gear can have an effect. I wasn't use that evidence to show what was better, just what prompted me to take a 2nd look at it. The original numbers were 2-3% difference! now with the extra upgrades that number is much smaller.

You won't find a single instance of a #10 ranking being only 0.5% DPS behind the #1 ranking.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings...pec=Windwalker

#10's DPS percentage of #1's for 25 man heroic Windwalker Monks:

Immerseus - 70.8%
The Fallen Protectors - 90.4%
Norushen - 84.3%
Sha of Pride - 85.8%
Galakras - 89.9%
Iron Juggernaut - 94.4%
Kor'kron Dark Shamans - 80.5%
General Nazgrim - 29.2% (lol adds, 80.5% for #10 to #4)
Malkorok - 87.1%
Spoils of Pandaria - 83.7%
Thok the Bloodthirsty - 90.0%
Siegecrafter Blackfuse - 92.3%
Paragons of the Klaxxi - 83.7%
Garrosh Hellscream - 90.0%

What this tells us is that it is impossible for the top 10 to be comprised the way they are based on a 0.5% gain in DPS. Even a 5% gain in DPS usually won't put #10 on top. Iron Juggernaut, Norushen, and Immerseus are in fact the only fights in which the #2 doing 0.5% more DPS could have taken #1 instead.

We can conclude from this that a 0.5% gain in DPS has no major effect on DPS rankings, it might affect one placement higher, but that's the absolute limit.

[Imbalanced]

But since at that level it is about scumbagging the numbers are larger so a 0.5% difference is a bigger number. If everyone is in the top 10 is scumbagging then gear can have an effect. I wasn't use that evidence to show what was better, just what prompted me to take a 2nd look at it. The original numbers were 2-3% difference! now with the extra upgrades that number is much smaller.

Gotta remember the degree to which they can scumbag is going to vary by a large amount at that point which is going to influence numbers more than gear ever can. It would probably be better for you to look at numbers 25-50 because odds are the parses will be more "normal"

[Deleted]

Thinking of coming back to WoW. Anything interesting happened to Monks since I've been gone?

[Babylonius]

Thinking of coming back to WoW. Anything interesting happened to Monks since I've been gone?

Nothing has changed since the "OMG Chi Brew works with Mastery" change in November/December.

[bounstar]

I understand that these are well within the meaningless ranges, being a 0.5% difference, that it should be a toss up. Just seems closer than I was under the impression of previously, and leans toward 4pc.

I use 4P mostly for the FoF quality of life. You'll be using FoF and TeB in the same window of time (during a trinket proc). Getting the 3 chi for it ASAP is very important for setting up a good FoF and only requiring 2 makes it a lot easier for a trinket like TeD. Obviously trinket RNG is going to make a difference, but I've found min maxing it is much more consistent. I've been getting pretty good results with 4p + ~13k haste for ST (consistently 500k+ on jugg, current R1).

[Zenlogic]

I use 4P mostly for the FoF quality of life. You'll be using FoF and TeB in the same window of time (during a trinket proc). Getting the 3 chi for it ASAP is very important for setting up a good FoF and only requiring 2 makes it a lot easier for a trinket like TeD. Obviously trinket RNG is going to make a difference, but I've found min maxing it is much more consistent. I've been getting pretty good results with 4p + ~13k haste for ST (consistently 500k+ on jugg, current R1).

Trinket RNG is the difference, look at Chiri, rank 2 IJ. Used to be r1, did not even have 588 weapons. 16 trinket procs, gg. Its all about trinket procs.

[bounstar]

Trinket RNG is the difference, look at Chiri, rank 2 IJ. Used to be r1, did not even have 588 weapons. 16 trinket procs, gg. Its all about trinket procs.

I actually did have a laugh when I saw it at the time when it was R1. I think he was 582ish during that log. When the stars align obviously you're going to get ridiculous parses. I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that simply dismissing it to ONLY trinket RNG is a bit insulting to the current excellent WW monks around the world (including yourself). I was giving my reasoning to why I had taken 4P. There are a lot of factors that contributed to that particular parse (kill time, trinket RNG, raid comp) and I was outlining the one that was relevant to this discussion.

[Zenlogic]

I actually did have a laugh when I saw it at the time when it was R1. I think he was 582ish during that log. When the stars align obviously you're going to get ridiculous parses. I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that simply dismissing it to ONLY trinket RNG is a bit insulting to the current excellent WW monks around the world (including yourself). I was giving my reasoning to why I had taken 4P. There are a lot of factors that contributed to that particular parse (kill time, trinket RNG, raid comp) and I was outlining the one that was relevant to this discussion.

100% agree, its just nuts that as a WW, with the way we use TEB. Bad trinket to good trinket RNG difference is out of this world.

[bounstar]

100% agree, its just nuts that as a WW, with the way we use TEB. Bad trinket to good trinket RNG difference is out of this world.

I went from 470k to R1 1 week apart. I absolutely despise RPPM in its current form. There's no consistency even with proc protection. It doesn't matter these days since it's pretty yolo, but I dunno how I feel when it comes to prog where you NEED to be making certain checks.

[Dirtdogs]

I went from 470k to R1 1 week apart. I absolutely despise RPPM in its current form. There's no consistency even with proc protection. It doesn't matter these days since it's pretty yolo, but I dunno how I feel when it comes to prog where you NEED to be making certain checks.

RPPM is a pretty big pain in the ass. The top guilds were having big troubles on H Lei Shen (like method and BL on early weeks) from getting the phase 1 push with the randomness of trinket procs. Think the trinkets were worse for most classes than they are now but it is really disgusting when you have to use multiple TeB at 18 stacks because you literally have not seen any trinket procs for that long.

I think WW suffer a little more than most melee (who often go with ICD AoC trinket and Harromms) but its really awful for casters with Pboy. Casters often have Bindings proc way late into the fight and not even get the int boost in their opener and this ruins classes like Affli Lock.

TLDR; Really hope they do something about trinkets in WoD the MOP model is horrible, would rather go back to all ICD trinkets with less weight on the actual proc (stats wise).