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  1. #361
    Ok thanks. I also just switched to Chi Brew during my raid tonight. Before it I was usually around 4-6 on dps. Now I am 1 on dps all the time. Loving Chi Brew.

  2. #362
    High Overlord zFury's Avatar
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    I'm currently sitting on 7200 haste with AoC as it seems to be a reliable level to chain FoF with Chi Brew however on fights the require SoR and tons of aoe from RJW (i.e, most of them) is it that much of a dps loss to remain at the same haste level or am I supposed to reforge on 2k haste every single time I need to switch out AoC for SoR >.>

  3. #363
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zFury View Post
    I'm currently sitting on 7200 haste with AoC as it seems to be a reliable level to chain FoF with Chi Brew however on fights the require SoR and tons of aoe from RJW (i.e, most of them) is it that much of a dps loss to remain at the same haste level or am I supposed to reforge on 2k haste every single time I need to switch out AoC for SoR >.>
    If you're using RJW more then it just means less energy for your single target rotation on top of it. If the emphasis is on AOE then its most important to keep RJW, TP, and RSK up, after that its just bonus. I stick at 22% haste with my AoC and never see a reason to switch it out during AoE periods.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | WoWHeroes | Ascent

  4. #364
    Hello,

    I would like to know in which aspects I can improve my dps. I think my dps is decent but would like to improve and hopefully some of you can help.
    Note: Gemming is not accurate as I am solo tanking malkorok p2 on Sunday. My stat priority is 11K haste>crit>mastery (always gemming agility).
    This is my armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Ezrya/simple

    Here are logs from this week's heroic kills:
    Note: Did not have any heroic weapon for these kills, so just had 2x 567 weapons
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kysx3.../?s=675&e=1115
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ga6z1dl1kx0qgnwb/

    I use chi brew, try to allign tigereye with trinket procs, try to maximize the amount of RSKs and keep TP up as much as possible. On some fights my dps is lower than you would expect due to how we do the fight (Protectors we don't stack all 3, Norushen I'm not inside first, Iron jug we do the start where we go away).

    I was also wondering if crit above 55% is still better than mastery?

  5. #365
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aesthir View Post
    Hello,

    I would like to know in which aspects I can improve my dps. I think my dps is decent but would like to improve and hopefully some of you can help.
    Note: Gemming is not accurate as I am solo tanking malkorok p2 on Sunday. My stat priority is 11K haste>crit>mastery (always gemming agility).
    This is my armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Ezrya/simple

    Here are logs from this week's heroic kills:
    Note: Did not have any heroic weapon for these kills, so just had 2x 567 weapons
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/kysx3.../?s=675&e=1115
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/ga6z1dl1kx0qgnwb/

    I use chi brew, try to allign tigereye with trinket procs, try to maximize the amount of RSKs and keep TP up as much as possible. On some fights my dps is lower than you would expect due to how we do the fight (Protectors we don't stack all 3, Norushen I'm not inside first, Iron jug we do the start where we go away).

    I was also wondering if crit above 55% is still better than mastery?
    You're logged out in your Brewmaster gear. Can't speak to anything else but I'd say at minimum you can take Crit to 57% before mastery because thats the AA crit cap with DW.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | WoWHeroes | Ascent

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by zFury View Post
    I'm currently sitting on 7200 haste with AoC as it seems to be a reliable level to chain FoF with Chi Brew however on fights the require SoR and tons of aoe from RJW (i.e, most of them) is it that much of a dps loss to remain at the same haste level or am I supposed to reforge on 2k haste every single time I need to switch out AoC for SoR >.>
    You can always use Ascension if you feel you need more energy but don't want to keep changing reforges all the time.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    You're logged out in your Brewmaster gear. Can't speak to anything else but I'd say at minimum you can take Crit to 57% before mastery because thats the AA crit cap with DW.
    I didn't, this is the gear I use for WW. As I said, gemming/enchants are wrong since I'm tanking on Sunday. I just provided armory so you know which Ilvl I am so you have an idea how much dps I should be doing in the logs (except I didn't have that heroic weapon in those logs).

  8. #368
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aesthir View Post
    I didn't, this is the gear I use for WW. As I said, gemming/enchants are wrong since I'm tanking on Sunday. I just provided armory so you know which Ilvl I am so you have an idea how much dps I should be doing in the logs (except I didn't have that heroic weapon in those logs).
    I'm not seeing anything that could be changed. Your RSK debuff uptime is less than 90% on your kills, so you may be able to add a few more RSKs in there. Other than that you missed a gem in your chest, its +Mastery with no Agi.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | WoWHeroes | Ascent

  9. #369
    How should Bloodlust/Heroism be handled?

    Currently, I'm doing a rotation of Jab>RSK>Jab>BoK>Jab>BoK>Jab>Bok, etc. Doing this mostly to keep from getting energy capped, but I've considered popping EB as well to throw some RJW in there.

  10. #370
    So is there any agreed upon priority for which trinket is actually best. I can't seem to find any consistent answer anywhere.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonky View Post
    How should Bloodlust/Heroism be handled?

    Currently, I'm doing a rotation of Jab>RSK>Jab>BoK>Jab>BoK>Jab>Bok, etc. Doing this mostly to keep from getting energy capped, but I've considered popping EB as well to throw some RJW in there.
    Yup spam Jab and BoK is about all you can do. Tossing in RJW sounds like a nice idea, but in reality you're basically throwing away every 3rd GCD that you would be using to generate TEB to use RJW instead, which comes out to a DPS loss. GG spec that's essentially energy capped at 25% haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asune View Post
    So is there any agreed upon priority for which trinket is actually best. I can't seem to find any consistent answer anywhere.
    Haromm's is by far the best trinket out of SoO. AoC is quite clearly a bit of a loss compared to TED at equal ilvls, but an AoC that's 6 ilvls higher (warforged) is essentially just as good as the lower TED.

    If you want to get really technical Thok's Tail Tip (Strength amp trinket) is far better than either AoC or TED once you start passing 560 ilvl, but good luck with that one.
    Current candidates for WoD - Brewmaster Monk, Guardian Druid, Protection Paladin.
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  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    If you want to get really technical Thok's Tail Tip (Strength amp trinket) is far better than either AoC or TED once you start passing 560 ilvl, but good luck with that one.
    Where is the data for this? I couldn't get TTT to sim higher than TeD in full BiS, let alone in the gear I have at the moment.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by bounstar View Post
    Where is the data for this? I couldn't get TTT to sim higher than TeD in full BiS, let alone in the gear I have at the moment.
    Simcraft is terrible for WW because it can't understand TEB or FoF, as such its results are always very unreliable. Thok's acts as a pure damage increase based on Crit (worth exactly Crit chance * Amp%), which allows the heroic warforged 2/2 Thok's passive be worth a 5.4% damage increase from the crit damage alone if you have 60% crit, which is slightly below the entire worth of TED as a trinket and the haste/mastery amp as well as the Strength proc (which, while not our primary stat, is still worth some attack power) left over. It's not a big deal because we can't roll it and no one is going to give a Monk a Strength trinket before everyone else, but it does explain why there isn't an Agility amp trinket.
    Current candidates for WoD - Brewmaster Monk, Guardian Druid, Protection Paladin.
    Still keeping an eye on - Windwalker Monk, Mistweaver Monk, Feral Druid.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Simcraft is terrible for WW because it can't understand TEB or FoF, as such its results are always very unreliable. Thok's acts as a pure damage increase based on Crit (worth exactly Crit chance * Amp%), which allows the heroic warforged 2/2 Thok's passive be worth a 5.4% damage increase from the crit damage alone if you have 60% crit, which is slightly below the entire worth of TED as a trinket and the haste/mastery amp as well as the Strength proc (which, while not our primary stat, is still worth some attack power) left over. It's not a big deal because we can't roll it and no one is going to give a Monk a Strength trinket before everyone else, but it does explain why there isn't an Agility amp trinket.
    Hinalover has made great strides to make the WW module a bit more indicative of how a rotation plays out in a real raid scenario and you can easily see that with the results that come up from the latest build. However I don't think it will ever represent it accurately due to how it calculates trinket proc values. This doesn't mean it's awful, just that SimC isn't the end all when it comes to theorycrafting in this game. It's a bit naive to dismiss it when it's one of the only tools we have to gauge potential pieces outside of actually getting the item. I could also say the exact same thing about mastery when its max value is directly tied to optimal performance. I'm more than happy to try pick it up when all my str users have gotten it (almost anything would be better than renatakis) but I'm not completely convinced until I can see it in a raid setting.

  15. #375
    The Patient pattison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Simcraft is terrible for WW because it can't understand TEB or FoF, as such its results are always very unreliable. Thok's acts as a pure damage increase based on Crit (worth exactly Crit chance * Amp%), which allows the heroic warforged 2/2 Thok's passive be worth a 5.4% damage increase from the crit damage alone if you have 60% crit, which is slightly below the entire worth of TED as a trinket and the haste/mastery amp as well as the Strength proc (which, while not our primary stat, is still worth some attack power) left over. It's not a big deal because we can't roll it and no one is going to give a Monk a Strength trinket before everyone else, but it does explain why there isn't an Agility amp trinket.
    Do you know how it works with the fact that you are using TeB with a weaker proc?

  16. #376
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Simcraft is terrible for WW because it can't understand TEB or FoF, as such its results are always very unreliable.
    Can you explain HOW it doesn't understand TEB or FoF? The code for both seems correct and the Action Priority List currently in place is the best that I can come up with. Saying it doesn't work doesn't help me one bit. If you can explain to me what it appears to be doing (maybe have a test case that I can take a look at) then I can evaluate it better. Just saying willy-nilly it's bad does not help. This is the SAME EXACT feedback Blizzard asks from the community. What is or isn't working. If it is not working what is it doing and to give a way to replicate the issue.

    Something like:

    a) TEB is applying to all trinket procs and not specific trinkets (doable but tricky and not something I can make a generic APL for)
    b) FoF is not doing the right damage - Is the ticks showing that it is critting or not. Not being used, etc.

    Something to give me an idea of where to look for the issue.

    As for the Action Priority List, if someone can come up with a better one, send me a PM and I can test it out.

    I'm not asking a lot, just information because I hate it when people tell me something is wrong without giving supporting information or reasoning.

    It's like someone telling me "My computer is not working; fix it." "Ok, what exactly is not working with your computer." is my response.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-11-17 at 06:08 AM.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    a) TEB is applying to all trinket procs and not specific trinkets (doable but tricky and not something I can make a generic APL for)
    I just had another look and realized it's only reacting to agi procs. Would it just be as simple as adding another & condition? This could be the reason that TTT was simming lower for me.

  18. #378
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bounstar View Post
    I just had another look and realized it's only reacting to agi procs. Would it just be as simple as adding another & condition? This could be the reason that TTT was simming lower for me.
    Yea I can add a strength condition to that (very easy to add). If you want to edit yours in the meantime just change the following line

    Code:
    actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=buff.tigereye_brew_use.down&chi>=2&(trinket.proc.agility.react|buff.tigereye_brew.stack>=15|target.time_to_die<40)&debuff.rising_sun_kick.up&buff.tiger_power.up
    to

    Code:
    actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=buff.tigereye_brew_use.down&chi>=2&(trinket.proc.agility.react|trinket.proc.strength.react|buff.tigereye_brew.stack>=15|target.time_to_die<40)&debuff.rising_sun_kick.up&buff.tiger_power.up
    Edit: and updated in the source code. Since the 5.4.1-1 just got released, it may be a few weeks before the next release happens so use this code in the meantime.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-11-17 at 05:23 PM.

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Can you explain HOW it doesn't understand TEB or FoF?
    It's not within the capability of the Simcraft program. It does not allow for analysis of the current situation because its method for disrupting movement and DPS is somewhat random but doesn't acknowledge the fact that we all have timers for when that kind of thing can happen or at least acknowledging that it can. Just about every simulation I have ever run suggests a far higher Fists of Fury usage than any of the top 50 parses on WoL show for what would be a "Helter Skelter" fight or "light movement fight", and no movement fights are simply not a thing that exists anymore. It simply cannot accurately portray the "and no movement of you or boss and no cleave" parts of the requirements to use FoF.

    It also doesn't allow for smart usage of TEB, or even practical usage. Single target DPSing a boss is about the only thing it can be setup to do, it doesn't understand that if adds are about to spawn on Nazgrim in 10 seconds and a Warshaman is in that group that popping your only stacks of TEB on Nazgrim because you happened to get a trinket proc is a really bad idea because you'll be target swapping and wasting a good part of that uptime. A "Time until off target" function would be nice but it would have to be tailored for each individual fight and gearing is more of an average of the total variance. There isn't really one set of Simcraft parameters you can set that accurately represents an average of all of the different kinds of fights we have to set our gear up for.

    On Thok's Tail Tip specifically part of the problem is probably that, if I recall, the "TEB on trinket" action neither anticipates ICDs (to build stacks beforehand) nor recognizes the Strength proc (as has already been discussed). It's also just generally off on the values of mastery and haste because of the TEB and FoF issues. I also suspect that Thok's is best used with a 2h and gemming full Crit instead of Agi, but I honestly have never bothered to do the math on that because Thok's being good for WW has always been just a "lol, how stupid" thing and less of an actual thing I care about.

    Really though, Thok's shouldn't be taken too seriously. It's only good at the heroic or heroic WF level and even then you can't roll for it and Strength users would get it first anyways. By the time you're realistically looking at getting one the tier is probably over for you already. I also think it's a great cause to try to get Simcraft working properly for WW, but I believe that the level of situational awareness needed to use FoF and TEB is beyond what anything less than an AI is capable of unless we're talking a Patchwerk fight, and we know those don't exist anymore. Because of that, I tell people to not bother because not knowing the answer is generally better than believing an unreliable one because it fosters the continued analysis of the spec rather than assuming we have the answer because Simcraft said so.
    Current candidates for WoD - Brewmaster Monk, Guardian Druid, Protection Paladin.
    Still keeping an eye on - Windwalker Monk, Mistweaver Monk, Feral Druid.

  20. #380
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    I agree with you in that SimC doesn't handle real-world scenarios very well. Only thing it's really good at is the single target dps. It also shows how much Blizzard has diversified raid mechanics to the point there there is no such thing as "Patchwork fights" anymore. There is always something going on that is distracting the player to some degree that you cannot just tunnel a boss the entire fight. It does show how good or bad a spec is on single target damage but that is it. Since SimC is right now the best way to guage our stat priority, having it work for single target is the only way for us to really see what to do. Since our Stat priority is also affected by the Action Priority List (APL) that also needs to be refined.

    This is also the reason why Blizzard doesn't like it when people say "SimC says I'm last on DPS, fix it." It is only showing single target but maybe the spec is good for AOE fights to compensate. Or provides a lot of utility.

    As for the TTT, for a while after 5.4 first came out yes, SimC wasn't registering Strength proc trinkets from Siege. That has since been remedied and even in the latest release has the fix in place so that you can check if Strength procs from trinkets happen.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-11-17 at 11:09 PM.

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