Thread: [Resto] Genesis

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by boochicken View Post
    To argue genesis "doesn't increase healing done" is totally false. Sure, it's not efficient to blanket rejuvs, genesis, blanket, genesis, but your throughput goes sky high. I'm also finding my overheals have gone down significantly as the other healers aren't wasting their mana healing someone who would be fine with my rejuv because now it's healing is done in a moment rather than 10 seconds.
    What they mean is that it doesn't actually do healing on its own. Since it just accelerates a already existing spell, while using it may be an increase to your total healing done, the spell Genesis itself is not actually doing any healing.

  2. #22
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoroc View Post
    What they mean is that it doesn't actually do healing on its own. Since it just accelerates a already existing spell, while using it may be an increase to your total healing done, the spell Genesis itself is not actually doing any healing.
    It's a middle-ground that people need to meet. Genesis itself doesn't add any healing, but it does allow more rejuv' casts in a shorter time (i.e. 4x as many). Theoretical - if you were doing 25K HPS from rejuv over the course of a fight without genesis, you'd be doing 100K HPS if you were mixing in Genesis, assuming you didn't go OOM from the extra mana cost.

    My druid is 88 (and heading to 90 very quickly) so he's only just unlocked this. I agree with people saying it's difficult to 'learn how to use it'. Of course, only being in 5-mans right now, I can't exploit the full potential of it, but I will say that it's saved my groups a few times. The issue I have is not knowing how many people I can get rejuv. cast on before I need to switch to Genesis (this applies if I'm just standing in Org or Shrine and healing random people -- it's interesting to see that it can hit almost anyone in the main areas of those cities regardless of grouping). Sure, it only takes 2.5 seconds, but genesis there, and you've already just about lost the first tick meaning the rest finish up in 2.1 seconds.

    I guess it just feels 'too quick'. I'd honestly have preferred for it to spread rejuv. to other targets (again, I'm 88, I don't know the entire spec yet so I'm not sure if we have a tool to do that elsewhere) and then hasten it - perhaps put a cooldown on it to make it a raid cooldown (as opposed to giving it an exorbitant mana cost with no cooldown) and I'd feel like I could make real use of it. You know, sorta like old mushrooms, but remaining as a HoT (albeit a quick HoT).

    Perhaps it's just me still learning the spec, but I don't feel that comfortable with genesis right now. I'm also really missing the old style of mushroom - even if it took time to setup, it allowed flexibility and massive burst healing either in a compact area or over several groups that are split (e.g. Lei Shen phase transition - I assume this would be a valid use for the old version assuming you were in range to trigger them all), compared to the new one that's planted near a target (I know it can be glyphed, but it's still only 1 mushroom and the healing on it seems highly reduced in it's new iteration). I do like that I can move mushrooms and keep the healing though, definitely a bonus but overall prefer the old style, and genesis really doesn't seem to fit the same role, there's an emptiness of sorts where mushrooms used to be. I'm sure I'll figure out exactly where Genesis fits in with my playstyle once I get some raid experience as a healer, but it definitely feels weird right now (and the mana cost has put me off using it too much due to regen from 85-88 seeming to be an issue since the patch [85-86.5 before the patch, no problem, 86.5-88 after patch have to watch mana carefully]).
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  3. #23
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    It's a middle-ground that people need to meet. Genesis itself doesn't add any healing, but it does allow more rejuv' casts in a shorter time...
    There's a very big "if" that's missing from the above. Genesis allows for more Rejuvenation casts if (and only if) all available targets have Rejuvenation already. Unless all targets have Rejuvenation, you'd do more healing if you simply spent that GCD casting Rejuvenation on someone. You can't keep ten targets perma-blanketed while also keeping WG/Harmony/Lifebloom up, so Genesis is only a healing increase in a five man group or if your raid is split up.

    The spell can be worth casting in other scenarios too, but in a raid setting you'll be sacrificing long term HPS to get short term HPS. The spell will probably see more use in five mans than in raids.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  4. #24
    If your cloak proc is up, use genesis once ANYONE takes damage.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoroc View Post
    Raid healing CD? It's not a CD, and it doesn't increase the amount of raid healing you do so.....
    Hi there. I'm a holy priest, which raid healing CDs would you say I have? Other than Divine Hymn.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    There's a very big "if" that's missing from the above. Genesis allows for more Rejuvenation casts if (and only if) all available targets have Rejuvenation already. Unless all targets have Rejuvenation, you'd do more healing if you simply spent that GCD casting Rejuvenation on someone. You can't keep ten targets perma-blanketed while also keeping WG/Harmony/Lifebloom up, so Genesis is only a healing increase in a five man group or if your raid is split up.

    The spell can be worth casting in other scenarios too, but in a raid setting you'll be sacrificing long term HPS to get short term HPS. The spell will probably see more use in five mans than in raids.
    The point of the spell, IMO, is for burst AOE healing - particularly while the group is spread. The spell is incredibly useful on multiple raid fights - it was one of the last tools a Resto Druid needed in their raiding toolkit.

    - Empowered Whirling Corruption on Garrosh - Perfect when people have to spread due to add spawns but you need to top people up quickly who are in danger of dying (from melee swings & aoe)
    - Immerseus - You can top up 4-5 adds with rejuv & genesis alone
    - Kor'kron Dark Shaman - Very useful to pop Genesis if the targets of Toxic Mist take too much damage from other fight mechanics
    - ANY fight where tanks take spike damage or you have to move while a tank is getting murdered and your SM / NS are on CD
    - Malkorok - anytime people get low on Ancient Barrier shield and raid damage is coming (such as the start of the fight)
    - Spoils of Pandaria - during large raid wide AOE if incidental damage also occurs (and to give you a buffer if people are getting low)
    - Thok - if someone is kiting and dropping in health due to Poison debuff or the fixate bleed and you're out of range due to their kiting (genesis top them up while getting in range)
    - General Nazgrim - same as Kor'kron Dark Shaman except with Bonecracker
    - Garrosh during Intermission phases - If someone doesn't get the Hope / Courage / Faith buffs and they need to be quickly topped (while you are moving, SM on CD, NS on CD) ... same goes for people who do have the buff and maybe they took a hit or are low for some other reason

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by manamonster View Post
    - Empowered Whirling Corruption on Garrosh - Perfect when people have to spread due to add spawns but you need to top people up quickly who are in danger of dying (from melee swings & aoe)
    Basically this alone makes me love Genesis. Now, Druids are the only class with a major healing "CD" for each of the Whirling Corruptions.

    SWG + SotF + Tranq is the most powerful CD ingame currently for this, and when Tranq is on CD, Genesis helps a lot through the phase. This spread + movement + high incoming damage + no damage afterwards is so perfect for Genesis that one might think it was actually designed for it.

    Genesis allowed us to kill the boss pretty easily yesterday. Also it's bugged when you target the boss and are out of healing range (of the boss). Needed to make a macro for this.

  8. #28
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    As other people have said Genesis is useful when the raid has taken bulk damage and your normal rejuv spam/WG isn't cutting it on getting them back up, although I certainly overused it a lot on my first night healing post 5.4 >.<, you only want to use it when you think people are in danger of dying otherwise as your hps will be both slightly higher in the long term with it and it can often cause luls in raid healing as you're spreading rejuv around again.

    That being said I do really like the spell, it makes our kit quite a bit more versatile.

  9. #29
    It would be so cool if we could delay or stop our rejuv, and being able to activate them again with genesis.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    That was my point a lil' bit actually. Is there a time where you *have* to use Genesis to help you survive a mechanic? Where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq, didn't do the job already? I'm having a hard time justifying it considering the mana you spend on it. Maybe with more practise etc.
    So why do you use lb, efflo and WG? People won't die if you don't use them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleze View Post
    Hi there. I'm a holy priest, which raid healing CDs would you say I have? Other than Divine Hymn.
    What is your point? Does holy priest has anything to do with genesis?
    And druid has only one raid CD that is tranq, and it has nothing to do with genesis...

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by insanedruid View Post
    So why do you use lb, efflo and WG? People won't die if you don't use them.
    LB gives clear casts, Efflo is free healing, WG is cheap smart healing. Why would i not use them?

    I think you missed this part:
    "where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq didn't do the job already".

    I'm not saying a hasted rejuv sucks. I can see how it can help raid members survive. I'm just not sure I'd turn to Genesis instead of say Mushroom Bloom or have a SoTF WG ready. It's a lot cheaper than spamming rejuvs and then Genesis.

    Healing 4-5 blops with Genesis on Immerseus is kind of cool though. Haven't tried it myself but I'm gonna do it next time

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    LB gives clear casts, Efflo is free healing, WG is cheap smart healing. Why would i not use them?

    I think you missed this part:
    "where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq didn't do the job already".

    I'm not saying a hasted rejuv sucks. I can see how it can help raid members survive. I'm just not sure I'd turn to Genesis instead of say Mushroom Bloom or have a SoTF WG ready. It's a lot cheaper than spamming rejuvs and then Genesis.

    Healing 4-5 blops with Genesis on Immerseus is kind of cool though. Haven't tried it myself but I'm gonna do it next time
    You just haven't learnt when and how to use Genesis to its fullest capabilities. With practice, comes enlightenment.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    LB gives clear casts, Efflo is free healing, WG is cheap smart healing. Why would i not use them?

    I think you missed this part:
    "where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq didn't do the job already".

    I'm not saying a hasted rejuv sucks. I can see how it can help raid members survive. I'm just not sure I'd turn to Genesis instead of say Mushroom Bloom or have a SoTF WG ready. It's a lot cheaper than spamming rejuvs and then Genesis.

    Healing 4-5 blops with Genesis on Immerseus is kind of cool though. Haven't tried it myself but I'm gonna do it next time
    If you want a quick dirty rule, anytime people are spread and need to be quickly healed (like Garrosh), Genesis is amazing. Also any fight where multiple targets are already hotted (such as Kor'kron Dark Shaman) and all need to be quickly healed (WG / SM aren't fast enough for multi target "instant" fast healing). If you have Toxic Mist on 1 melee and 1 ranged and lets say the melee takes a tick of Foulness from a Foul Slime while a ranged clips the edge of a Toxic Tornado all while your tank is at a 5 stack of Froststorm Strike and getting destroyed by Froststorm Bolt. Gensis is perfect for making sure you don't get any gibs in this instance from the next ticks of Froststorm Bolt or Toxic Mist.

    Using Gensis is really fun to me because it requires quick decision making. If you're playing reactively (lets say you don't hot up people with debuffs until they're already lower HP), Genesis is useless. But then again hotting people late defeats the purpose of hotting to begin with. Genesis is a really good "oh shit" button to react to raid members making mistakes. Another great use is solo healing towers on Galakras ... if your raid members are fucking up and you've blown through mushroom, WG ... you're basically out of options if people keep fucking up.

    Another good example will be Heroic Sha of Pride ... as the fight goes on Rifts open which will cause stacking to be less and less viable. Damage done from Mark of Arrogance (targeted dot) combined with Swelling Pride (raid unavoidable AOE) will be astronomical. From watching all the PTR videos (where people had scaled up gear), the most gibs came from taking 1-2 ticks after Swelling Pride from Mark of Arrogance. And like a lot of progression heroics, once you lose 1 person it's a wipe. Having a multi-target swiftmend (genesis) for stuff like that is invaluable.

    In fact that's a great explanation of its use - multi-target Swiftmend.

  14. #34
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirri View Post
    You just haven't learnt when and how to use Genesis to its fullest capabilities. With practice, comes enlightenment.
    It's an ability that's easy to overestimate, though. It should be thought of as similar to Regrowth: quick healing, but you sacrifice long term throughput and mana efficiency.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    It's an ability that's easy to overestimate, though. It should be thought of as similar to Regrowth: quick healing, but you sacrifice long term throughput and mana efficiency.
    Thank you I think this is what I really wanted to say. English is not my first language so I tend to ramble on instead putting my message across short and precise. Genesis is awesome, but easy to overestimate.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleks0410 View Post
    LB gives clear casts, Efflo is free healing, WG is cheap smart healing. Why would i not use them?

    I think you missed this part:
    "where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq didn't do the job already".

    I'm not saying a hasted rejuv sucks. I can see how it can help raid members survive. I'm just not sure I'd turn to Genesis instead of say Mushroom Bloom or have a SoTF WG ready. It's a lot cheaper than spamming rejuvs and then Genesis.

    Healing 4-5 blops with Genesis on Immerseus is kind of cool though. Haven't tried it myself but I'm gonna do it next time
    "where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq didn't do the job already".
    Your logic is that if you can heal with these 4 spells and finish the job, you don't need to use anything else.

    My arugment is that you dont have to use WG/LB and you can still finish the job. So by your logic you won't use WG/LB.
    Free/smart heal or not is irrelevant, 'cause your point is that they are not necessary so you won't use them.
    I think you are the one who are missing the point.

    The point is that you use a spell not because it is necessary. It's because it's useful, it's the better tool for the job.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    It's an ability that's easy to overestimate, though. It should be thought of as similar to Regrowth: quick healing, but you sacrifice long term throughput and mana efficiency.
    Yeah on the other hand if you just rejuv/WG you win in the HPS game by sacrifice your teams life and the chance to beat the boss.
    Last edited by insanedruid; 2013-09-17 at 06:42 PM.

  17. #37
    [QUOTE=insanedruid;22427122]"where WG (maybe with SoTF), Efflo, Mushroom, Tranq didn't do the job already".
    Your logic is that if you can heal with these 4 spells and finish the job, you don't need to use anything else.

    My arugment is that you dont have to use WG/LB and you can still finish the job. So by your logic you won't use WG/LB.
    Free/smart heal or not is irrelevant, 'cause your point is that they are not necessary so you won't use them.
    I think you are the one who are missing the point.

    The point is that you use a spell not because it is necessary. It's because it's useful, it's the better tool for the job.
    QUOTE]

    I just said "I can see how it can help raid members survive"... How can you... Why are you... Ah nevermind, I think you're raging a bit now and putting words in my mouth. I'm done discussing anything with you. Good luck.

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