Rogue PvE Compendium - the do's and dont's [6.2]

[Eileana]

Hey guys got a question. Which spec will perform better on Butcher? Assa or Combat. I don't say sub because i don't feel like i handle it perfectly to get more dps than i could in simpler specs. Heard butcher hc required 20k per person, tbh i don't know if i can handle it with my rouge.

Here's my armory, any tips are more than welcome. Also i post logs from butcher normal. I didn't even make 17k, should be better now because i know the fight but still, i think 20k is outta my reach

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Idrisha/simple
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...WZ3Gc7#fight=2

I'd play Assassination, unless you can use Killing Spree freely during Cleave Phases. There will be some downtime even with Shadowstep, so Assa would be the choice for me.

[baazl]

I'm talking about envenoms used compared to the buff uptime. We're talking about 1% differences in uptime that are compensated by the increased frontend Envenom damage.

This is probably a dumb question with an answer I'm totally missing, but how is it a DPS loss? The way I'm seeing it, you're not losing anything if you're not capping energy since we're not GCD-bound, right? It seems like you'd still be able to get the same quantity of Envenoms in regardless of pooling. They'd just come later within small time frames. What am I missing?

[Coldkil]

Basically with increased fron envenom damage, you can safely say that pooling and not pooling net you roughly the same damage.

This anyway doesn't change the fact that pooling is no more necessary - you can still do it, but you won't have a significantly better performance (if better performance at all).

About the guide: i updated combat section after the DfA fix, and finally updated information about gems/enchants sections.

[Coldkil]

Updated combat AoE section (CT is a relic from the past) and added better info about the pooling VS non-pooling for Assassination.

If you're interested in the argument, please go read there and remeber we're still testing stuff out.

Lastly, you can find this everywhere in the forum, but to recap today's rogue buffs, they represent more or less a 2-3% damage increase for every spec.

[twod]

Hi, I have some questions about Combat and Sub.
I generally play Combat atm. Just wanted to check if I am doing correct.
I have blade furry on. Spam Sinister Strike for 5 cps → Crimson Tempest. Repeat.
Is this correct for 3+? or should I use revealing strike instead of SS? and/or use Eviscerate.
EDIT: Bah, I just saw there was an update to this ... ignore about this combat.


For Sub, I've been tryin to learn this lately.
When I use Shadow Dance, do I only spam ambush? or do I use Eviscerate as well? and keep up other dots?
I try to pool my energy before SD is used.

Thanks

[Coldkil]

regarding shadow dance, you just swap your primary builder from BS to Ambush and follow standard rotation - keep in mind that you want to spam the maximum number of Eviscerates during FW, so before using SD, you should have enough time on SnD and Rupture (though Rupture can be hard because of Multistrike).

Worth noting, it seems that forcing a rupture with SR is a damage increase.

[kumarshah]

Am I missing something or is Korgah the only boss that has Assassination weapon drops?

[Coldkil]

Yes, it's the only dagger dropping from the istance. Kargath and Twin Ogrons drop both a combat weapon.

[twod]

regarding shadow dance, you just swap your primary builder from BS to Ambush and follow standard rotation - keep in mind that you want to spam the maximum number of Eviscerates during FW, so before using SD, you should have enough time on SnD and Rupture (though Rupture can be hard because of Multistrike).

Worth noting, it seems that forcing a rupture with SR is a damage increase.

Cool thanks for the info.

[twod]

I was lookin at the sub notes and I couldn't seem to find any details on list of rotation for AoE'in other than it is as good as other specs or better. Will this be added to the OP? However, I did find this other information:
2-3 targets: Cycle rupture on all mobs
3-4 targets: Roll the CT dot
5+ targets: Replace Eviscerate with CT

FoK replaces Backstab at 2+ targets.
I have question about 5+ targets..when spamming FoK..do you spam CT as well? or cast the spell before the dot falls off? I'm having a hard time doing a lot of dps compared to combat.

[kindath]

I was lookin at the sub notes and I couldn't seem to find any details on list of rotation for AoE'in other than it is as good as other specs or better. Will this be added to the OP? However, I did find this other information:
2-3 targets: Cycle rupture on all mobs
3-4 targets: Roll the CT dot
5+ targets: Replace Eviscerate with CT

FoK replaces Backstab at 2+ targets.
I have question about 5+ targets..when spamming FoK..do you spam CT as well? or cast the spell before the dot falls off? I'm having a hard time doing a lot of dps compared to combat.

At a certain number of targets, the combo point generation of FoK outweighs the damage and multistrikething of backstab. Data says this is at 2 targets since finishers are so good for sub.

At a certain number of targets, CT does more overall damage than a single eviscerate. Data says this is as low as two targets, though it'll be higher if find weakness is on the target.

At a certain number of targets, CT does more overall damage than a cast of rupture. Data says this is something crazy like 8 or higher targets.

So finisher priority for AoE is SnD > CT (8+ targets) > Rupture (tab rupture tab rupture tab rupture) > CT (2+ targets) > Eviscerate.

Other notes:
It's probably beneficial to start an AoE sequence with a CT regardless of number of targets to get SV up on all targets while you FoK.
It's still beneficial to use ShD and Vanish during AoE for find weakness and master of subtlety.
Shadow Reflection will copy Crimson Tempests, though that's only really useful on long drawn out AoE phases since it'll take 8 + 12 seconds from when you cast to fully tick out.
The DoT from CT fully rolls all damage from a previous cast, so don't worry about spamming it, it's not losing any damage.
CT takes half the time of rupture to tick out, so for short lived adds, spamming CT is probably better.

[Galufio]

At a certain number of targets, the combo point generation of FoK outweighs the damage and multistrikething of backstab. Data says this is at 2 targets since finishers are so good for sub.

At a certain number of targets, CT does more overall damage than a single eviscerate. Data says this is as low as two targets, though it'll be higher if find weakness is on the target.

At a certain number of targets, CT does more overall damage than a cast of rupture. Data says this is something crazy like 8 or higher targets.

So finisher priority for AoE is SnD > CT (8+ targets) > Rupture (tab rupture tab rupture tab rupture) > CT (2+ targets) > Eviscerate.

Other notes:
It's probably beneficial to start an AoE sequence with a CT regardless of number of targets to get SV up on all targets while you FoK.
It's still beneficial to use ShD and Vanish during AoE for find weakness and master of subtlety.
Shadow Reflection will copy Crimson Tempests, though that's only really useful on long drawn out AoE phases since it'll take 8 + 12 seconds from when you cast to fully tick out.
The DoT from CT fully rolls all damage from a previous cast, so don't worry about spamming it, it's not losing any damage.
CT takes half the time of rupture to tick out, so for short lived adds, spamming CT is probably better.

Thanks for clarifications!
Want to ask some things you didn't adress:
- Two targets, start of the fight (think twin ogron). How to be most effective? I currently go (10 cp into snd before pull) - ambush - 5 cp rupture - ambush - fok - tab 5 cp rupture - (back on first mob) - sd+sr single target rotation - 5 cp rupture both mobs at the 5-7 sec of sr - fok to 5 cp into evis - vanish - ambush... etc. So basicaly I dont use CT for the first ~45 sec of the fight (because I have FW all that time). Is this right or I must at least roll CT dot? Any suggestions?
- So on two targets I must still ambush during SD? At what number of targets it gets benifical to build CP with FoK and ambush only twice per SD (at first and last GCD - for prolonged FW)?
- Just to check: at 3-4 targets, 1-2 of which will die soon (think brackenspore) I rupture both long living adds and then spam fok+ct even during FW right?

[Deleted]

Is Mark of the Shattered Hand still bis enchant after the nerf?

[Coldkil]

Is Mark of the Shattered Hand still bis enchant after the nerf?

It has never been BiS to run 2x Shattered Hand - it's still BiS to run a stat enchant coupled with a SH one.

[Deleted]

ok so here's the deal.

I have 669 ilvl, raiding mythic atm and was wondering which spec is best for which bosses specifically.

I have 2x hc phemos double slashers for combat and 2x daggers from hc koragh, so I can swap easily(tho most of my gear is towards haste naturally, cause highmaul drops sucks).

RIGHT NOW I'm running combat/sub(dunno if assa is better on any boss than combat/sub, thoughts?) and specced as follows

1. Kargath - sub
2. Butcher - sub
3. Brackenspore - combat(because of big add cleave and blue mushroom haste buff, I always pull crazy numbers there)
4. Tectus - combat, obviously
5. Twins - combat - here's my main concern. Is sub 2 target cleave stronger than combat? I find it enormously easier to play combat there, especially on mythic where i have to avoid shitload of stuff so I play combat, because I'm afraid I won't be able to pull of as much of a perfect rotation in sub compared to combat.
6. Ko'ragh - sub
7. Imperator - combat/sub. No idea there. Tried both, didn't see much of a difference so I can't really decide on which one is stronger.


Also would really love some insight from a good rogue player if assa is by any chance viable on any boss in highmaul right now over sub/combat.

[Coldkil]

I play sub for all fights because a) we're not doing tight progression and b) i don't have combat weapons.

I can assure you, 2 target cleave for sub is more than fine, and also AoE it's really good; the problem is that you have to manually refresh Rupture (and probably Hemo with latest buffs) and while it's an easy task on 2 targets, it can become an issue on 5+ targets.

CT rolling dot for Sub is great. Also if i remeber well i've seen people playing Assa for some fights like Twins, probably because Assa cleave is easier to mantain (just throw Rupture on all targets).

[deathdkmaxtor]

priority stats?

[jasdasm]

would you CT on Tectus 2 / 8motes ? or is it not worth it

/combat rogue

[Feali]

priority stats?

You didn't even read the post then. That's just lazy. You deserve no answer.

[Coldkil]

would you CT on Tectus 2 / 8motes ? or is it not worth it

/combat rogue

With BF active, the damage of Eviscerate is replicated onto all adds, so do not use CT.