Rogue PvE Compendium - the do's and dont's [6.2]

[Deleted]

That assumes perfect execution

All sims do that unless declared otherwise.

correct energy pooling

The assa profile as of now does at no point pool energy

usage of Vanish on CD.

You do that regardless of muti vs ambush

Wait a couple of seconds too much and the dps increase disappears - we're still talking about 43dps over 35-40k total.

Yes, that is not significant. In theory, the sim could vanish at a bad time and not have enough energy to instantly break stealth with an attack and thus lose auto attacks. Might need to get fixed.

We can safely assume both are on par - i prefer Muti voer Ambush for more CP generation.

I second that. Might change with scaling though.

[Coldkil]

The assa profile as of now does at no point pool energy

This sounds at least strange to me - Assa rotation involves energy pooling to maximize Envenom uptime and avoid clipping when possible, am i missing something? Guide needs to be updated if it's not needed to pool anymore.

You do that regardless of muti vs ambush

Yes, my point was to address the sim assumption, not change the usage of Vanish in the rotation.

Small disclaimer: the guide is willingly not as much detailed as the Ryme simcraft thread, because it needs to be a compendium and a fast/easy reference that covers basics and some advanced tips for playing a rogue. So sorry if i'm not always helpful as expected there are some people that are much much better than me at minmaxing.

[Deleted]

This sounds at least strange to me - Assa rotation involves energy pooling to maximize Envenom uptime and avoid clipping when possible, am i missing something? Guide needs to be updated if it's not needed to pool anymore.

The assa profile achieves 89% envenom uptime without pooling and planing ahead - all my attempts at pooling were dps losses, that doesn't mean its impossible though. That's at mythic gear and full T17 though.

[Coldkil]

The assa profile achieves 89% envenom uptime without pooling and planing ahead - all my attempts at pooling were dps losses, that doesn't mean its impossible though. That's at mythic gear and full T17 though.

That's interesting to know. Probably it's because with Envenom hitting harder than before, pooling too much means less envenoms and results in a dps loss.

[Deleted]

I didn't overflow on energy though. So I didn't waste envenoms, I even increased it to 92% uptime... but no dps increase.

[Deleted]

So whats the best Weapon Enchant for Rogues now ? and what are Stats weight, not realy sure since every Site uses different

[Kael]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...esults-for-WoD

[warstry]

The general rule for pooling has been pool enough energy to reliably do 2 mutilates to ensure you have enough combo points for the next envenom, this is emphasized more so now with Empowered Envenom, increasing our mutilate and dispatch damage by 30% while Envenom is active.

The Mut vs Ambush argument sums up to Ambush has a high amount of up front damage, but Mut will have the chance to proc DP twice off the first hit as well as the chance to proc blindside, highly increasing the openers potential. With that first mutilate you are applying DP faster and speeding up subsequent poison ticks. The difference is minimal, and comes down to reliability or potential.

A random question about Vanish. I've always felt like it's best to hold vanish until the first point when you have envenom about to come down, 2-3 CPs and not enough energy to mut for 5 CPs, then vanish for the mut, to keep envenom uptime going. Or should it just be used on CD?

[Rhodianni]

Can I get some information on how to use SR.

For Ass, I was told to pop Veng/SR and then refresh rupture before going in to Mult/Dispatch/Envenom spam. How should I go about it for Sub? Do I care at all about refreshing rupture/Hemo after using SR or should I just focus on Ambush/Evis?

[Deleted]

so whats the best weapon enchant now ?

[warstry]

so whats the best weapon enchant now ?

In another thread they said according to SimC and ShC Mark of the Shattered Hand will be better at low gear levels and Mark of the Frostwolf will pull ahead as you obtain gear.

[Puffah]

Can I get some information on how to use SR.

For Ass, I was told to pop Veng/SR and then refresh rupture before going in to Mult/Dispatch/Envenom spam. How should I go about it for Sub? Do I care at all about refreshing rupture/Hemo after using SR or should I just focus on Ambush/Evis?

Refresh SnD, hemo and Rupture before using both SD/SR and spamming ambush/evis. Some have suggested to refresh rupture right at the start so that the reflection gets his own Sanguinary Veins, but I'm not even sure if he does get his own. And even then I'm not sure if it's a dps boost

[Mirean]

I just simmed my char (subtlety) and it tells me that haste is better than mastery and multistrike is much better than anything else (except agility of course)... How is that even possible? Granted, I enchant and gem mastery (I used to be assasination until few days ago), but how can haste be better?

Anyways, with this stat priority, I was thinking about which trinkets might be best... currently, I'm using the pvp one (versatility+on proc agility) and on-use multistrike one and I think I should replace at least the pvp one - but with what? 2 on-use trinkets is waste, so the haste proccing one? I don't think I will be lucky enough to gain the follower mission for 645 trinket (agi+multistrike passive), so I can only choose from the 630 ones... which one would you choose?

(my scale factors, as of now (normalized): multistrike 0.45, haste 0.37, mastery 0.34, crit 0.32, versatility 0.32)

Thanks

[Tziva]

I'm interested in seeing more math on the pooling vs not pooling. This is pretty interesting to me.

[Coldkil]

I just simmed my char (subtlety) and it tells me that haste is better than mastery and multistrike is much better than anything else (except agility of course)... How is that even possible? Granted, I enchant and gem mastery (I used to be assasination until few days ago), but how can haste be better?

Anyways, with this stat priority, I was thinking about which trinkets might be best... currently, I'm using the pvp one (versatility+on proc agility) and on-use multistrike one and I think I should replace at least the pvp one - but with what? 2 on-use trinkets is waste, so the haste proccing one? I don't think I will be lucky enough to gain the follower mission for 645 trinket (agi+multistrike passive), so I can only choose from the 630 ones... which one would you choose?

(my scale factors, as of now (normalized): multistrike 0.45, haste 0.37, mastery 0.34, crit 0.32, versatility 0.32)

Thanks

Maybe i should put a disclaimer - the stats priority are based on a raid tier/BiS gear composition. With low level gear stat priority can change because of less energy regen due to less haste, less cp generation from HaT/Seal Fate due to less crit, you got the point. Haste plausibly wins over other stats at low gear because it lets us to run with a smoother rotation.

Also a trinket EP is determined by the stat amount and uptime. Witherbark's Branch grants nearly 300 more stat, and while the buff lasts 10 sec compared to the on-use ones that lasts 15, the on-use trinkets have a 1.5 min cd while procs more often, granting you more uptime.

[Mirean]

Alright, thanks for explanation I guess I'll farm the witherbark trinket then

[Khas]

Envenom buff has been buffed from a 15% to a 30% increased poison proc chance, making it stronger; avoid buf clipping as much as possible pooling energy and delaying Envenom the most you can.

Sorry, but can somone clarify this ? Are we supposed to pool energy now or not ? So far I have been pooling, trying to get 2 Mutilates into Envenom buff.

[Coldkil]

Envenom buff has been buffed from a 15% to a 30% increased poison proc chance, making it stronger; avoid buf clipping as much as possible pooling energy and delaying Envenom the most you can.

Sorry, but can somone clarify this ? Are we supposed to pool energy now or not ? So far I have been pooling, trying to get 2 Mutilates into Envenom buff.

Fixed the guide about this. Long story short, the increased front damage of Envenom compensates for the buff clipping and it's actually a slight dps gain to not pool energy (at least from sims).

Pooling energy means using less envenoms overall, and before WoD Envenom damage was mostly about the increased poison chance; now it's no more the case.

[Khas]

Fixed the guide about this. Long story short, the increased front damage of Envenom compensates for the buff clipping and it's actually a slight dps gain to not pool energy (at least from sims).

Pooling energy means using less envenoms overall, and before WoD Envenom damage was mostly about the increased poison chance; now it's no more the case.

Thank you very much

[Slipspace]

Fixed the guide about this. Long story short, the increased front damage of Envenom compensates for the buff clipping and it's actually a slight dps gain to not pool energy (at least from sims).

Pooling energy means using less envenoms overall, and before WoD Envenom damage was mostly about the increased poison chance; now it's no more the case.

Can you explain why pooling energy would reduce the overall amount of envenoms used if you don't energy cap?