1. #3521
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    I think they were more referring to the "recognition" he brought to their guild. Lot of people saw them and heard about them when he joined and streamed their raids and talked about them, etc.
    I raided with them when REM formed in 5.1 (i believe its that patch) up to when Devai joined. Got sacked cus i were holding the guild back and were a bit of a cunt so i havent raided in a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Not So Serious and Rapid Eye Movement both went from 10->25 during the lull-phase of ToT, as far as I know. Both have done extremely well so far, but you also have to keep in mind that both guilds raid *alot*. As mentioned earlier, extensions, added days etc are always part of the races among the "top" guilds, and both NSS/REM are already "6 days" guilds with ~25+ hour schedules (before extensions and added days) according to their officall statements.
    REM raid(ed) alot, but as far as i can see from the roster of their more recent boss kills, either they kicked alot of people from when i used to play, or many have name changed/rerolled, because there are many i cant remember. I remember several of them, and i can say with certainty that the guild wouldn't be there without those. This is whats needed to go from 250th to ~50th in ToT to top 10 this tier. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link you know.
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  2. #3522
    Quote Originally Posted by Martinussen View Post
    I raided with them when REM formed in 5.1 (i believe its that patch) up to when Devai joined. Got sacked cus i were holding the guild back and were a bit of a cunt so i havent raided in a long time.


    REM raid(ed) alot, but as far as i can see from the roster of their more recent boss kills, either they kicked alot of people from when i used to play, or many have name changed/rerolled, because there are many i cant remember. I remember several of them, and i can say with certainty that the guild wouldn't be there without those. This is whats needed to go from 250th to ~50th in ToT to top 10 this tier. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link you know.
    Doesn't matter how weak the link is if you've got enough time to work out the kinks in these scenarios. You quickly learn which members you can rely on for harder, individual tasks, and which you just give the easy "stand there and make pretty numbers"-tasks. If you have a weak link, you either replace it with someone who does better in that situation, or give him an easier task to handle which means he won't become an issue.
    After all, if you ARE in a top 50 guild, then the weakest link really can't be THAT "weak".

  3. #3523
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    nilhilum
    ensidia
    paragon
    the odd American guild on non end tier bosses..
    in what world can you possibly spin them as the under dog when none of the guilds that have beat them are even racing them anymore?
    So you're saying the only reason they're #1 is that all the better guilds have better things to do these days? I think you have a point there.

  4. #3524
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    So you're saying the only reason they're #1 is that all the better guilds have better things to do these days? I think you have a point there.
    Mantaining a healthy roster (especially at that level and with the committment needed) is one of the skills Method has proven to excel in to be honest.
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  5. #3525
    Pit Lord Martinussen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Doesn't matter how weak the link is if you've got enough time to work out the kinks in these scenarios. You quickly learn which members you can rely on for harder, individual tasks, and which you just give the easy "stand there and make pretty numbers"-tasks. If you have a weak link, you either replace it with someone who does better in that situation, or give him an easier task to handle which means he won't become an issue.
    After all, if you ARE in a top 50 guild, then the weakest link really can't be THAT "weak".
    Top 50 is way different from top 500 and top 1000 from what i could.
    One major factor is ofcourse the time spent raiding.
    Another big factor is ofcourse how well people play. But if every DPS is able to do 5% more dmg due to being just a little bit better, you'll see your guild downing many more bosses way quicker.

    I cant talk on REM's, or any other guild's behalf, but i'd say even tiny improvements across the board for those guilds will result in massive advances when raiding. If you want to be top 10, you gotta let go of the weak links (or they have to become stronger)
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  6. #3526
    Quote Originally Posted by Martinussen View Post
    Top 50 is way different from top 500 and top 1000 from what i could.
    One major factor is ofcourse the time spent raiding.
    Another big factor is ofcourse how well people play. But if every DPS is able to do 5% more dmg due to being just a little bit better, you'll see your guild downing many more bosses way quicker.

    I cant talk on REM's, or any other guild's behalf, but i'd say even tiny improvements across the board for those guilds will result in massive advances when raiding. If you want to be top 10, you gotta let go of the weak links (or they have to become stronger)
    Couldnt agree more with this becuz at some point people that raid a TON will always get to certain bosses where it takes a certain amount of skill to kill and if you dont have that it doesnt matter how much you raid you will just hit a brick wall. So basically time spent is mostly important if you already got the skills to be at lets say top 10.
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  7. #3527
    Quote Originally Posted by discmeedel View Post
    Couldnt agree more with this becuz at some point people that raid a TON will always get to certain bosses where it takes a certain amount of skill to kill and if you dont have that it doesnt matter how much you raid you will just hit a brick wall. So basically time spent is mostly important if you already got the skills to be at lets say top 10.
    I have to disagree - either that, or I don't play with any of those weak links. Do some of the raiders in our guild take longer to learn a new boss, or deal with a mechanic, than others do? Sure. Some are just better than others. But do they EVENTUALLY learn it? Yes, yes they do. Therefore, time is a direct limiter to progress. Can it be improved upon by getting better players instead of the ones who are slow to learn? Absolutely. Is it a neccessity? No, if you throw more attempts at a boss, at one point or another it'll become second nature, and the skill of the individual won't matter.

  8. #3528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I have to disagree - either that, or I don't play with any of those weak links. Do some of the raiders in our guild take longer to learn a new boss, or deal with a mechanic, than others do? Sure. Some are just better than others. But do they EVENTUALLY learn it? Yes, yes they do. Therefore, time is a direct limiter to progress. Can it be improved upon by getting better players instead of the ones who are slow to learn? Absolutely. Is it a neccessity? No, if you throw more attempts at a boss, at one point or another it'll become second nature, and the skill of the individual won't matter.
    and im not disagreeing. But if you want to go from a top 300 guild to a top 10 world wide, you need to replace those people to jump the ladders.
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  9. #3529
    Quote Originally Posted by Martinussen View Post
    and im not disagreeing. But if you want to go from a top 300 guild to a top 10 world wide, you need to replace those people to jump the ladders.
    That's true, but I'm not 100% sure that's what REM/NSS did. NSS for example, was "low" ranked in 25 man, but extremely high in 10 man, and they fused with another very high ranked 10 man guild. The fact that they had a low rank was just because they had to transistion from 10 to 25, and thus got the kills late.
    As for REM, I'm not sure - but I think alot of the same was valid for REM's ToT progress.

  10. #3530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    That's true, but I'm not 100% sure that's what REM/NSS did. NSS for example, was "low" ranked in 25 man, but extremely high in 10 man, and they fused with another very high ranked 10 man guild. The fact that they had a low rank was just because they had to transistion from 10 to 25, and thus got the kills late.
    As for REM, I'm not sure - but I think alot of the same was valid for REM's ToT progress.
    they formed before ToT. We killed 12/16 on 25HC.
    I think it was two 10 mans or 1 10 man + a crashed 25 man guild that merged (i wasn't in either guild, but joined during the merge). We started out by doing Vaults on 25 hc, and then doing the rest of the raids in the raid groups we had pre merge. Slowly we started doing more and more of the bosses in the final 25 man hc team, to get used to the new enviroment, people, fights etc. We never got around to doing springs as it wasn't deemed worth it to spend time to learn fights and clear it before ToT landed (was already cleared by another 25hc guild). In ToT we only did 25HC.

    I can only recognise about 13 of the people from their Blackfuse kill, so alot of people have either been replaced or rerolled or name changed
    Last edited by Martinussen; 2013-09-30 at 12:21 PM.
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  11. #3531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulgore Sweet Potato View Post
    So you're saying the only reason they're #1 is that all the better guilds have better things to do these days? I think you have a point there.
    not at all, method has earned the number 1 spot, the roster they have now is debatably the strongest ever if you really go in and break it down. it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.
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  12. #3532
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I have to disagree - either that, or I don't play with any of those weak links. Do some of the raiders in our guild take longer to learn a new boss, or deal with a mechanic, than others do? Sure. Some are just better than others. But do they EVENTUALLY learn it? Yes, yes they do. Therefore, time is a direct limiter to progress. Can it be improved upon by getting better players instead of the ones who are slow to learn? Absolutely. Is it a neccessity? No, if you throw more attempts at a boss, at one point or another it'll become second nature, and the skill of the individual won't matter.
    As i said when you get to certain bosses(RLY hard bosses) you get to the point of the only chance for those people to kill it is getting more gear because they just dont have the skills to do it, it doesnt matter if you raid 18 hours a day, if you are bad, you are bad. Obviously the matter of where the boss is impossible is only the case on the real hard bosses and i actually know several guilds who are in the exact situation i have been talking about but i dont have to go in to any names but it is definately the case and those guilds kind of prove it in my eyes atleast.
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  13. #3533
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    not at all, method has earned the number 1 spot, the roster they have now is debatably the strongest ever if you really go in and break it down. it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.
    That's as maybe, but the likes of Method, BL and Paragon etc. are motivated by being World First when new raid content is released or why else bother raiding 12 hours+/day trying to achieve that.

    That won't be happening now if guilds can gear up in 25man, aren't geared enough to kill the last couple of bosses and switch to 10man where their ilvl gear gives a huge advantage.

    Effectively, the World First race is now over and will continue like that into future expansions (unless Blizzard changes things). Unless the top guilds are happy just being Asia/US/EU/25/10 first or whatever, Method and BL at least could at least say WF 25man (but still 2nd) if they get it, but the 10man guilds have got nothing to really go for now, apart from US or EU 1st and World 2nd, possibly 3rd if there's a 25man kill before them.

    I now wonder if the top guilds are going to see a decline in their rosters if effectively they aren't going to be competing on a level playing field for World First?

  14. #3534
    I really don't think the members of Method/BL/Paragon think of the race as being "over" or really care at all about some asian 10 man killing a boss aimed at a different raid size with a bunch of extra gear. It just isn't relevant.

  15. #3535
    Quote Originally Posted by Gondlem View Post
    I really don't think the members of Method/BL/Paragon think of the race as being "over" or really care at all about some asian 10 man killing a boss aimed at a different raid size with a bunch of extra gear. It just isn't relevant.
    Pretty much this. The EU and US guilds havent given up at all. The World first race tracked by Wowprogress and manaflask among others is not over yet. And thats the race we are interested in. Its like a metaphor to World Cup in Football, China(with over 1 billion ppl) hosting one of their own and the rest of the western world participates in another one.

    Which one would interest u the most? Would u call their "world first" the real world first(world champions what ever) or not? (Perhaps a bad metaphor but its my point that matters).
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  16. #3536
    I heard REM got world 10th cos of their new Raid Leader is crazy amazing...
    Last edited by Ryian; 2013-09-30 at 02:27 PM.

  17. #3537
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    Quote Originally Posted by oysterwjc View Post
    World 2nd 25H Kalaxxi kill
    http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/m...eId=0_06_02_99
    warrior warlock priest POV
    as always plz DO NOT WATCH if you think Asia isnt part of the world race, no point to watch someone already out of the race isnt it
    enjoy
    grats.
    Edit. That fight looks so awesome
    Last edited by santa666; 2013-09-30 at 03:19 PM.

  18. #3538
    There is no real worldfirst anymore. We are now looking for Westfirst and Asiafirst. You cant call a race worldfirstrace if not all of the wow community participate under the sane rules. We need to seperate them. Its not a worldfirst with only eu/us in a pot.

  19. #3539
    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkovius View Post
    Pretty much this. The EU and US guilds havent given up at all. The World first race tracked by Wowprogress and manaflask among others is not over yet. And thats the race we are interested in. Its like a metaphor to World Cup in Football, China(with over 1 billion ppl) hosting one of their own and the rest of the western world participates in another one.

    Which one would interest u the most? Would u call their "world first" the real world first(world champions what ever) or not? (Perhaps a bad metaphor but its my point that matters).
    Personally speaking, no, but it's irrelevant what I think.

    But the fact still remains, Garrosh has already been killed whether we agree with it or not. Also, World First suggests that US/EU does not constitute "the world". Bit like Americans calling whoever wins the Superbowl world champions when they are the only country competing.

    Not really a world first if it's been downed already, it's a bit like the 10man vs 25man debate whether 10man is real raiding?

  20. #3540
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are dominating.
    Exactly, when the best are all gone, the rest become the best by default. You're not the only one who thinks this, I'm sure.

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