Holy Paladin vs. Proving Grounds

[Lovestar]

Just a warning that this guide was written during the end of 5.4 Beta and there's been some changes to PGs and (probably) revision of the HPally healing philosophy in PGs since then. Most of the advice should be relevant still, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some outdated stuff / errors.

No plans to check and update it at this point, sorry. Too much else to do. >.<

[Miskat0nic]

I did the 10 waves 1 year ago (i think i reached wave 15) then i didn't really bother with the PGs. I remember tho that doing the Challenge modes was easier than this, back then.
I am gonna try to make the 30 waves now, you reckon i shall go with spirit gear or normal raid 577 gear? Or mixed gear? :v
Thank you

I did neither, at ilvl 463 int is king, so I took old sets of gear with max amount of sockets and then gemmed straight intellect (and int/mastery in yellow and spirit/mastery in blue if socket was worth it), and then reforged mastery>crit>haste>spirit. This brought my spirit down low enough to make use of glyph of illumination for a net gain in regen. You can obviously instead gem straight very spirit heavy and then be able to spam more heals, but I favor potent few heals over more weak heals. This definatly requires you to use HS on cd as well as keeping a close eye on Divine Plea cd but it works great for me.

[Simonbridge]

I still can't pass wave 9 in endless mode, I tried a lots of strategy and looked many time the great video from Simulacrum, maybe I'm just that bad, but sometime I miss mana at the end other times I feel my heal arent enought strong. Don't know if I should regem more for spirit, are you guys using some aoe heal? I just spam holy light on everybody + EF and Divine light on the tank + Light Hammer on Coldown.I intterupt the Hive Singer and some Tunneler. I use Hand of sacrifice on Conqueror enrage.....and my Holy Avenger on Cooldown. Don't know if I should try the +int build instead of + spirit.
My caracter is Nefrate on Thrall, server, I can't post a link of my armory

Thank you

[Deleted]

I am gonna try to make the 30 waves now, you reckon i shall go with spirit gear or normal raid 577 gear? Or mixed gear? :v
Thank you

I reached wave 37 in a full mastery build (using EF), and with total 5800 spirit (int flask and food). The only changes compared to my raiding gear were if I had items with more sockets (eg. crafted 522 boots, lei shen neck, tot weapon with 2 sockets), or same number of sockets but overall higher spirit + mastery on the item.

I still can't pass wave 9 in endless mode, I tried a lots of strategy and looked many time the great video from Simulacrum, maybe I'm just that bad, but sometime I miss mana at the end other times I feel my heal arent enought strong. Don't know if I should regem more for spirit, are you guys using some aoe heal? I just spam holy light on everybody + EF and Divine light on the tank + Light Hammer on Coldown.I intterupt the Hive Singer and some Tunneler. I use Hand of sacrifice on Conqueror enrage.....and my Holy Avenger on Cooldown. Don't know if I should try the +int build instead of + spirit.
My caracter is Nefrate on Thrall, server, I can't post a link of my armory
Thank you

I was stuck for some time on wave 26 - tried spirit build (12k spirit fully buffed), int build and standard raid mastery build. None seem to make much difference really. As a hpally, the name of the game is cooldown usage. You literally have a cooldown for every pull.

I went with EF, improved stun, double hands, holy avenger, light's hammer, glyph for knockback and glyph of hand of sac. Just keep practicing your cooldown rotation and cc-s and mana won't be an issue ever.

There are some sly tricks like positioning far away from the tank on the double-enrage wave and taunting one of the mobs when he enrages etc. But not needed to get to wave 30.

[Guyon]

I decided to finally try the PG again.
I use this spec and gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...guyon/advanced
Some pieces are replaced with identical items but full spirit gemmed / reforged (5 items, i can link the full gear i use).
The first 10 waves go pretty smooth, unless some weird rng jumps in, i have time to drink and restore full mana before the 11th wave, but on the second cycle i go terribly down with mana and at around wave 15/16 i'm oom and my party dies :°(
I'm using this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ATcWhDCtG4 yet my mana seems to drain much much more and i really have no clue why is that. I am also taunting mobs off the tank to reduce the damage on him. I must confess i didn't try that much yesterday, 2 hours top, so maybe i lack some experience, but the mana drain seems to be really really too hign.
Thank you for your help ^_^

[cremor]

I did it a few days ago with full int (or int/mastery) gemming and 3506 haste > mastery reforge. The only waves I had mana issues were 9, 19 and 29. Usually because these were also the only waves that required the usage of Flash of Light or Divine Light. On all other waves I rarely used anything other than Eternal Flame, Holy Light or Holy Prism.

I followed the talents, glyphs and cooldown usage of this guide: http://healiocentric.wordpress.com/2...urney/#paladin
The only thing I modified was the stat order. I got the 3506 haste breakpoint before going to mastery.
Also read the non paladin specific things at the top of the guide.

The most important part is to use everything your spellbook has to offer. Use hands, both sacrifice and protection (and freedom after protection on the tank). Use your cooldowns (the linked guide shows a good cooldown usage rotation). Use stuns. Use interrupts. Use aura for debuff explosions on melee and on the flamecaller wave. Use bubble instead of dispelling yourself.

[Deleted]

I managed to reach wave 31. I reforged/gemmed Full Spirit. The only time i was OOM was at the end of wave 30. It was quite an amazing challenge. Loved it.

Also, best title ever for a healer ^_^

[Guyon]

Int/mastery gemming is the one i am using on my raiding gear, i never really tried with that set for the simple reason i think i'd be low on mana. I can give it a shot though. I also forgot to glyph for HoS damage mitigation, but that wasn't an issue anyway, taunting off the tank did the job along with a few HoS that didn't really got me that low.
Again wave one goes like a charm, second round drains me I'll give a shot at that guide tonight though! Thank you for now i'll give you a feedback soon!

[Guyon]

I just tried with this gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...guyon/advanced
It's all pretty east up to wave 11, then my mana drains, seems like my heals lands on the tank for nothing -_- and cant keep him up unless i spam and then go oom by wave 15/16..

[Diggy]

I just tried with this gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...guyon/advanced
It's all pretty east up to wave 11, then my mana drains, seems like my heals lands on the tank for nothing -_- and cant keep him up unless i spam and then go oom by wave 15/16..

Buy some restorative ambers from Klaxxi quartermaster. After 10th, 20th, 30th.. wave you get out of combat for a while. Pop the amber to go back to full mana. Rinse and repeat.

Try to get different trinkets as well. Darkmoon trinket is really good. Also Tsulong's Spirit of the Sun

[cremor]

I just tried with this gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...guyon/advanced
It's all pretty east up to wave 11, then my mana drains, seems like my heals lands on the tank for nothing -_- and cant keep him up unless i spam and then go oom by wave 15/16..

First, I'd optimize the gear:
2 unenchanted items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Jewelcrafting: 1 unused Serpent's Eye

Then I'd recommend going full int. Replace spirit gems with int (or int/spirit if the bonus is int). Replace spirit on chest with stats. Reforge out of spirit as much as you can. More int/mastery/crit means higher heals means you don't need to heal as often means you need less mana.

And you should replace Prismatic Prison of Pride with a static int trinket. As already said the one from Darkmoon is BiS for PG.

Use the Illumination glyph instead of Beacon glyph, this will give you more mana than the little loss from your little spirit. I'd also use Holy Prism instead of hammer.

[Guyon]

Buy some restorative ambers from Klaxxi quartermaster. After 10th, 20th, 30th.. wave you get out of combat for a while. Pop the amber to go back to full mana. Rinse and repeat.

Try to get different trinkets as well. Darkmoon trinket is really good. Also Tsulong's Spirit of the Sun

Mana at the start of wave 11 isn't a problem, i start with full mana.

First, I'd optimize the gear:
2 unenchanted items
Missing Living Steel Belt Buckle
Jewelcrafting: 1 unused Serpent's Eye

Then I'd recommend going full int. Replace spirit gems with int (or int/spirit if the bonus is int). Replace spirit on chest with stats. Reforge out of spirit as much as you can. More int means higher heals means you don't need to heal as often means you need less mana.

And you should replace Prismatic Prison of Pride with a static int trinket. As already said the one from Darkmoon is BiS for PG.

Use the Illumination glyph instead of Beacon glyph, this will give you more mana than the little loss from your little spirit. I'd also use Holy Prism instead of hammer.

Regemming as you said (full int) means to use my normal raiding gear, which has way more int and way less spirit, and that gives me even more mana problems. I can replace the trinkets that's not a problem i have the one you mentioned.

[cremor]

If you have mana problems with a max throughput build it means one of two things. Either you overheal too much or your group takes too much damage.
To reduce overhealing you have to get out of the mindset that everyone needs to be at 100% HP. The only situation where everyone needs to be topped of is when Chomp debuffs are coming soon.
To reduce damage you have to use every spell from your spellbook. And use them often. The guide I already linked above says much about this, e.g. you can prevent a second Chomp with a good timed stun. Don't use cooldowns only when you need them. Exactly plan ahead when you will use them and follow your plan 100%. Having cooldowns up when you don't need them still saves mana. And with a good plan (like the one in the linked guide) they will always be ready when you really need them for high damage waves.

[Mormolyce]

I decided to finally try the PG again.
I use this spec and gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...guyon/advanced

Is this your PG set or am I looking at your raid set? Legendary meta gems don't work in CMs/PGs so swap to a helm with a regular meta, also if you have a ToT weapon it will likely be better because you CAN use the Eye of the Black Prince to get an extra socket in it. Also I'm not sure if it's true for healers but I understand the amplify trinkets don't scale down so well for other classes, if so consider swapping to something else. Maybe another spi/mana trink? I understand the DMF trinket and Spirits of the Sun from ToES are strong at that ILVL.

[Guyon]

If you have mana problems with a max throughput build it means one of two things. Either you overheal too much or your group takes too much damage.
To reduce overhealing you have to get out of the mindset that everyone needs to be at 100% HP. The only situation where everyone needs to be topped of is when Chomp debuffs are coming soon.
To reduce damage you have to use every spell from your spellbook. And use them often. The guide I already linked above says much about this, e.g. you can prevent a second Chomp with a good timed stun. Don't use cooldowns only when you need them. Exactly plan ahead when you will use them and follow your plan 100%. Having cooldowns up when you don't need them still saves mana. And with a good plan (like the one in the linked guide) they will always be ready when you really need them for high damage waves.

So you reckon i shall use my regular int/mastery raiding set (or regem full int and lose mastery even) just swapping trinkets and helm meta ?

Is this your PG set or am I looking at your raid set? Legendary meta gems don't work in CMs/PGs so swap to a helm with a regular meta, also if you have a ToT weapon it will likely be better because you CAN use the Eye of the Black Prince to get an extra socket in it. Also I'm not sure if it's true for healers but I understand the amplify trinkets don't scale down so well for other classes, if so consider swapping to something else. Maybe another spi/mana trink? I understand the DMF trinket and Spirits of the Sun from ToES are strong at that ILVL.

PG set

[cremor]

So you reckon i shall use my regular int/mastery raiding set (or regem full int and lose mastery even) just swapping trinkets and helm meta ?

That's what I did, yes. Replaced helm meta, replaced sha trinket with darkmoon trinket, reforged out of spirit (3506 haste > mastery > crit), replaced mastery gems with int/mastery (and one or two int/haste since I couldn't get 3506 haste otherwise). Used Illumination glyph. Other than that I used my 10H raiding gear, talents and gylphs. I had no huge mana problems, only went oom once or twice in wave 19 and/or 29, but every time just a few seconds before plea was ready again.

[Guyon]

Used some specific cd rotation / guide ?

[cremor]

The one I already linked a few posts above: http://healiocentric.wordpress.com/2...urney/#paladin
See the table at the right for the CDs for each wave.

[Guyon]

Will give it another go later on with my raiding gear + trinket + head gem

- - - Updated - - -

Try n.1 up to wave 10 all fine and easy again, started cycle number two with full mana and almost all the cds available all but DP).
All easy up to wave 15, the mogu two shotted my tank eventho i had hos up and i was taunting it off the tank every time i could :P
Gonna try again now, the rotation of the website isn't bad, i just feel i am popping cds too late into the wave and they aren't ready when i need them 3 mins later lol. It hasn't been a problem for the first cycle though ^^

- - - Updated - - -

I tried a couple more times and reached wave 17, then i got a lil (a lot) upset and i started failing before wave 10 even. The hardest part seem to be to interrupte the sonic aoe while the tank has 2 adds, enraged (both with 10% less dps debuff i apply at the start of the wave) and a bleed. It's a bit rng i guess but there my mitigation isn't enough and the aoe boom gets my ass out.

[cremor]

Which bleed is on the tank? Do you mean Chomp? That should never be active more than one second. If you can't remove it with an instant heal (which you ususally should be able to, pool HP for upcoming Chomps!) use Hand of Protection (followed by Hand of Freedom if the Chomp was on the tank).

Use CDs early in waves. For example in waves x5 and x9 I used DF/AW right at the start of the wave, followed by Guardian either directly after or after just a short pause. Hand of Sacrifice of course as soon as a big add enrages.