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  1. #21
    After finally getting a chance to jump into a flex raid, it really does seem as though the healing cloak is terrible for disc and running the DPS one feels like a better choice. It could be interesting to allow Essence of Yu'lon to work with Atonement to at least have one cloak which is congruent with the play style of disc.

  2. #22
    I dont see how you can think this is bad for disc.

    This proc procs from:

    Prayer of mending
    Halo/divine star
    Power Word: Shield
    non dmg penance

    This, if used right is acually awesome for disc. Halo and divine star produce a serious ammount of overhealing. And if used right you can just pop PWS like 4 times and get the proc pop halo and spirit of chi-ji hits for 900k-1mil. Its simple really. Tried it out of LFR ToT today and it worked like a charm. Ppl say it produces around 1-4% healing done but i easily got to 6-9%. Since it procs from PWS you can basically choose when u want it to proc during an encounter unless you want to try to get it to proc all the time. Just wait like 45 sec and try some PWS then it procs. This is acually awesome for disc. Although its only good if you either spam atonement during the proc (low overhealing though) or if you time it with halo and atonement. For a fight like f.ex lei shen. If u use halo with the proc on thunderstruck it easily heals for 1 mil. And there is lots of fights with that kind of mechanic or high overall dmg going out.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Doode View Post
    I dont see how you can think this is bad for disc.

    This proc procs from:

    Prayer of mending
    Halo/divine star
    Power Word: Shield
    non dmg penance

    This, if used right is acually awesome for disc. Halo and divine star produce a serious ammount of overhealing. And if used right you can just pop PWS like 4 times and get the proc pop halo and spirit of chi-ji hits for 900k-1mil. Its simple really. Tried it out of LFR ToT today and it worked like a charm. Ppl say it produces around 1-4% healing done but i easily got to 6-9%. Since it procs from PWS you can basically choose when u want it to proc during an encounter unless you want to try to get it to proc all the time. Just wait like 45 sec and try some PWS then it procs. This is acually awesome for disc. Although its only good if you either spam atonement during the proc (low overhealing though) or if you time it with halo and atonement. For a fight like f.ex lei shen. If u use halo with the proc on thunderstruck it easily heals for 1 mil. And there is lots of fights with that kind of mechanic or high overall dmg going out.
    Delaying divine star / halo to time it with an unreliable proc we have no idea when will happen is not worth it.

  4. #24
    If you read its not unreliable at all... but ok if u say so. Ill top the healing while you whine ;P

  5. #25
    We are not DPS who can choose when to do our damage/healing to get the biggest numbers. we need to react to situations, so choosing highly distinctive spells like Halo after some highly unreliable proc (which coincidentally most often procs from Halo/DS/C, because it won't proc from the spells we use most otherwise) is not viable uless you are only playing for the meters and some other healer picks up the slack and would therefore be able to heal it without you anyway.

    The trigger mechanic of those procs is bad for disc - because it does not trigger on spells we use regularely (are forced to use regularely in fact since regular use of others has too many downsides due to the changes in every patch). They do on spells other specs use.

    The procs themselfes are bad for disc - because they ignore our crit mechanic. Crit being our best stat otherwise. They work very well with the crit mechanic of other specs, in fact, they improve the crit mechanic for other classes. They also interact well with most other stats those classes use.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doode View Post
    If you read its not unreliable at all... but ok if u say so. Ill top the healing while you whine ;P
    It might not be unreliable if you want numbers.
    But it reduces the numbers of options you have available to deal with the things you have to adress to do your job - which should be effectively keeping the group alive with your team.

    There sure are situations where it works well, but on average it does not.

  6. #26
    Dude. Im not telling you to only use halo/divine star when the proc procs... Im telling you to use a couple of PWS before the cd is about to end and if ur lucky u get the proc and get a high spirit of chi-ji proc. Ur seriously stupid if u want to wait with using divine star every 120 sec cuz of the proc rate... But if useing f.ex divine star you can pop PWS when meta gem procs and then if u get the proc just use divine star asap. I usually get the cloak proc once every second halo when using if when its ok cd. Ur talking to me as if its a dead end while im sitting here using the tactic with my own eyes.

    As i said. Sit here and whine while i top my meters

  7. #27
    Should play mistweaver, does 15%+ healing on some fights lol xD (10/14)

  8. #28
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    I was incredibly dissapointed when i got it i was expecting the effect that heals a % deficient health

    It's not like it's even that useful...my incredibly low amounts of overhealing gets to be useful for 10second every 2min? :S I think i would prefer the buff being 7% healing rather than having the effect >.<
    Last edited by Frozenbeef; 2013-09-14 at 06:03 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Doode View Post
    If you read its not unreliable at all... but ok if u say so. Ill top the healing while you whine ;P
    It's RPPM. It is therefore unreliable. You cannot "choose" when the proc happens, and you can not rely on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doode View Post
    Dude. Im not telling you to only use halo/divine star when the proc procs... Im telling you to use a couple of PWS before the cd is about to end and if ur lucky u get the proc and get a high spirit of chi-ji proc. Ur seriously stupid if u want to wait with using divine star every 120 sec cuz of the proc rate... But if useing f.ex divine star you can pop PWS when meta gem procs and then if u get the proc just use divine star asap. I usually get the cloak proc once every second halo when using if when its ok cd. Ur talking to me as if its a dead end while im sitting here using the tactic with my own eyes.

    As i said. Sit here and whine while i top my meters
    So basicly, throw out healing spells when halo/divine star is about to come off CD? Seems dumb.
    You even said it yourself: "If you're lucky". Your method does nothing to make it a more reliable healing boost, and the fact is that every single other healer gets tons of overhealing from just doing what they normally do, while we don't, which means for them, it's a reliable healing boost. For us, we can't hold Divine star for any amount of time, and it is highly inefficient to spam healing spells everytime it's about to come off CD (every 15 seconds). If we were to use halo, then we would be lacking due to talent choise on half the fights.
    Add this to the fact that there might not be anything to actually HEAL when the proc happens, and it does not generate Aegis. Using Halo on CD on the fights it is the better choice, still generates 350-400K absorbs on every person it crits (with +55% crit rate with the new 2 set).

    Last but not least - link to your WOL, please. http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...ll/dracomaros/ you can find all the logs from my priest alt here. Let's see who is doing "better".

    Quote Originally Posted by Zypherz View Post
    Should play mistweaver, does 15%+ healing on some fights lol xD (10/14)
    Check our paladin on Nazgrim:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...=12173&e=12493
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-09-14 at 06:15 PM.

  10. #30
    Basing your logic on lfr lei Shen as the reason that the cloak is a good proc for disc priest is laughable at best since the amount of overheals in lfr is at least 3x greater than normals simply because there's almost nothing to heal.

    At the very least go into a flex raid for siege and try to prove your point with wol data and your point would have far more validity in normal raids. Most disc priests are seeing on average around 1.5% healing from the cloak, and cannot afford to hold their level 90 talents in hopes that when they do use a spell that blizzard decides can proc this cloak it will proc. and as many others have said the fact that it doesn't interact with our crit makes it even worse for us than any other healer on top of the fact that it doesn't proc from atonement.

    If anything the extra dps you gain from the dps cloak being 15-20% of your dps may be far greater in value on heroic modes along with the fact that it has crit and mastery on it.

  11. #31
    Is anyone reading my statement? Seriously read before u comment. I have never said that you should wait with ur 90 talent. And i have explained it. All i was trying to prove is that it is relatively easy to get it to proc and no draco draco you should not start casting healing spells before the cd goes off. Thats insanely stupid... im done with this discussion. Try it out for urselfs i works great for the first 8 bosses for me atleast (Normal Mode). I dont care if u cant time it right. Sit here and complain. I was just trying to make life easier.

  12. #32
    I don't get what are you talking about.
    Don't use CD/talent/bigheal before the cooldown of the cloak is going off?
    Are you talking about internal cooldown on a RPPM item?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Doode View Post
    Is anyone reading my statement? Seriously read before u comment. I have never said that you should wait with ur 90 talent. And i have explained it. All i was trying to prove is that it is relatively easy to get it to proc and no draco draco you should not start casting healing spells before the cd goes off. Thats insanely stupid... im done with this discussion. Try it out for urselfs i works great for the first 8 bosses for me atleast (Normal Mode). I dont care if u cant time it right. Sit here and complain. I was just trying to make life easier.
    I read it. You just don't like the answer / responses you are getting. It is not "relatively easy" to get it to proc, because it procs from stuff we want to use on cooldown (read: Shield for regen every 12 seconds, PoM every 10 seconds). It is a RPPM ability which means that it may proc back to back casting PoM->Shield, or it may not proc for 2 minutes. There is simply no predicting it, thus "casting a few shields before the CD is up" is just not viable, as it is entirely reliant on RNG.
    And there is no CD to time because it is RPPM, which means you can't force a proc <.<

    Also, I see you completly neglect to answer the part where I provide you with the logs from my priest, in the hope that you will provide us with the logs from your priest, so we can see how well the cloak actually works for you, and how good the other healers are compared (major influence on cloak effectivity too). FYI, anecdotal evidence is worth less than nothing if you are not willing to provide us with some kind of data we can analyze.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I read it. You just don't like the answer / responses you are getting. It is not "relatively easy" to get it to proc, because it procs from stuff we want to use on cooldown (read: Shield for regen every 12 seconds, PoM every 10 seconds). It is a RPPM ability which means that it may proc back to back casting PoM->Shield, or it may not proc for 2 minutes. There is simply no predicting it, thus "casting a few shields before the CD is up" is just not viable, as it is entirely reliant on RNG.
    And there is no CD to time because it is RPPM, which means you can't force a proc <.<

    Also, I see you completly neglect to answer the part where I provide you with the logs from my priest, in the hope that you will provide us with the logs from your priest, so we can see how well the cloak actually works for you, and how good the other healers are compared (major influence on cloak effectivity too). FYI, anecdotal evidence is worth less than nothing if you are not willing to provide us with some kind of data we can analyze.
    Were you using the DPS cloak in your log?

    Have to say I'm pretty underwhelmed too in 10s. I don't really know how you can react to it in a useful way - if the raid is taking heavy damage you continue your AoE healing just as without the proc, and if the raid isn't taking heavy damage it's probably topped and there aren't 5 hurt people who can take advantage of the proc.

    It was doing around 1 to 1.5% of my healing, except on Norushen where it hit 3.2% on one try. That is pretty much the best case scenario for the cloak with near constant damage and people not being topped so I don't see it doing any more than that.

  15. #35
    If youre seeing less than 1% of your healing from the proc then youre just using it wrong. When the cloak procs you can just penance someone at full health and it becomes a smart heal on everyone who is low on health. (just an example)
    <celebrities> of perenolde 14/14H U.S. 37 10 Man -- Ret paladin/Resto druid
    http://www.twitch.tv/nature24

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by dmfg View Post
    Were you using the DPS cloak in your log?

    Have to say I'm pretty underwhelmed too in 10s. I don't really know how you can react to it in a useful way - if the raid is taking heavy damage you continue your AoE healing just as without the proc, and if the raid isn't taking heavy damage it's probably topped and there aren't 5 hurt people who can take advantage of the proc.

    It was doing around 1 to 1.5% of my healing, except on Norushen where it hit 3.2% on one try. That is pretty much the best case scenario for the cloak with near constant damage and people not being topped so I don't see it doing any more than that.
    Yep, DPS cloak was used.
    Although we did do TOT10 heroic last night, where I used my chiji cloak for Meg:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2674&e=2888
    we chained the rampage phases one after another, basicly never ever getting out of rampage. AKA constant, never ending raid damage. Look at the amount of healing my cloak did :/.

    Meanwhile, the monk did four times as much with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Natureseer View Post
    If youre seeing less than 1% of your healing from the proc then youre just using it wrong. When the cloak procs you can just penance someone at full health and it becomes a smart heal on everyone who is low on health. (just an example)
    Except you want to use penance offensively, and then it turns into (OMG!) a smart heal anyway. Why the fuck would you want to not dps the boss and have it do the exact same thing?
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-09-14 at 09:41 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Why the fuck would you want to not dps the boss and have it do the exact same thing?
    Offensive penance heals for less than regular penance, and doesn't apply grace (which is a further healing increase compared to offensive penance)

    Therefore, they are not the exact same thing. I wouldn't recommend playing your alt, by the way.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2013-09-14 at 10:21 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    Offensive penance heals for less than regular penance, and doesn't apply grace (which is a further healing increase compared to offensive penance)
    But it does damage that defensive penance does not do.
    But the point is though, if you just wanted to overheal, why use penance? PoH does more healing than penance if you can hit all 5 targets, and you can't turn that in to a smart heal either way.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    But it does damage that defensive penance does not do.
    But the point is though, if you just wanted to overheal, why use penance? PoH does more healing than penance if you can hit all 5 targets, and you can't turn that in to a smart heal either way.
    No, the point is that that is a reason for why you would use regular penance over offensive penance. Regular penance heals for more, and when it also smart heals from the proc, it is better for the job. There is a significant difference between the two abilities.

    I am not saying it is best for the situation, I'm just saying you're wrong about penance. If your issue was that PoH is better than penance for the proc, than make that your point. Not offensive penance > regular penance.
    Last edited by Larynx; 2013-09-14 at 10:26 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    No, the point is that that is a reason for why you would use regular penance over offensive penance. Regular penance heals for more, and when it also smart heals from the proc, it is better for the job. There is a significant difference between the two abilities.

    I am not saying it is best for the situation, I'm just saying you're wrong about penance. If your issue was that PoH is better than penance for the proc, than make that your point. Not offensive penance > regular penance.
    Kind of was. The cloak is so powerfull for other healers because the majority of their healing are not smart heals, or that their smart heals are extremely expensive. If you want to use a smart heal to overheal instead of do DPS with it, and then have the overheal turn in to smart healing to gain 10%+grace healing on it, but splitting the players it heals even more (3 targets healed -> 5 targets) you are gaining a very, very minor increase that is not worth it to "benefit" from, unless you don't value DPS at all.

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