Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Brewmaster Lustinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    1,428
    As a Disc Priest, healing in 25M, I find the cloak to be fantastic. I do not understand what you're complaining about, free extra healing?

    The least % of the healing done on it was on Norushen, 4.6% where I practically ONLY smited the boss. On the other fights it was about 5% of my healing done, to an amazing 6.6% on Protectors. Same with the other two disc priests in my guild, it seems to be way more than the 1-3% that people are talking about. Maybe you're not putting it to use good enough, or maybe you're just being VERY VERY unlucky with the procs.

  2. #42
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ml...?s=3850&e=4259
    the heck is wrong with your spirit of chi ji uptime on Norushen? 25%, and one of them just never ends. Is this a log-issue with you going inside the challenge realm, and the CL not being able to read the buff as being gone?
    Also, compare your protectors log to mine:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ml...?s=2554&e=2903 you
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=5622&e=5944 me

    At first glance, some major differences -
    Of course, I wasn't using the cloak because of the sucky nature of it. I still pushed a decent chunk more HPS.
    DPS difference is 16M vs 25M damage done between us.
    My Aegis did 53.5% of my healing, it did 37.5% of yours.

    There is a vast difference between the playstyles we utilise. You seem to be much more focused on "actual" healing, compared to the shielding and atonement smarthealing that I personally think is far superior as disc.

    I also don't get why you do not understand our concerns - disc has no HoT's that can tick on full HP targets. Disc has only smarthealing. Even our crits do not count toward the Chi-ji proc, as they become absorbs instead of overhealing, contrary to every other healer.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lustinus View Post
    As a Disc Priest, healing in 25M, I find the cloak to be fantastic. I do not understand what you're complaining about, free extra healing?

    The least % of the healing done on it was on Norushen, 4.6% where I practically ONLY smited the boss. On the other fights it was about 5% of my healing done, to an amazing 6.6% on Protectors. Same with the other two disc priests in my guild, it seems to be way more than the 1-3% that people are talking about. Maybe you're not putting it to use good enough, or maybe you're just being VERY VERY unlucky with the procs.
    I have no idea how your guild is getting 20-28% uptimes on spirit of Chiji when mine are all around 10%. Does it scale with haste? It's on a RPPM system so spell selection shouldn't be making a difference..

  4. #44
    Brewmaster Lustinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ml...?s=3850&e=4259
    the heck is wrong with your spirit of chi ji uptime on Norushen? 25%, and one of them just never ends. Is this a log-issue with you going inside the challenge realm, and the CL not being able to read the buff as being gone?
    Also, compare your protectors log to mine:

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ml...?s=2554&e=2903 you
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3...?s=5622&e=5944 me

    At first glance, some major differences -
    Of course, I wasn't using the cloak because of the sucky nature of it. I still pushed a decent chunk more HPS.
    DPS difference is 16M vs 25M damage done between us.
    My Aegis did 53.5% of my healing, it did 37.5% of yours.

    There is a vast difference between the playstyles we utilise. You seem to be much more focused on "actual" healing, compared to the shielding and atonement smarthealing that I personally think is far superior as disc.

    I also don't get why you do not understand our concerns - disc has no HoT's that can tick on full HP targets. Disc has only smarthealing. Even our crits do not count toward the Chi-ji proc, as they become absorbs instead of overhealing, contrary to every other healer.
    No, I actually hardly ever play with "Actual heals"... Do note that for the most part I was simply attonement healing and really not focusing on my healing done, rather than killing the boss so that we could progress the best. I also only used PW:S for the movement buff and nothing else (again, focusing on killing the boss, and not so much my healing since it wasn't really an issue").

    During progression I'll probably be doing a lot more PW:Sing. About Norushen, I'm not even sure, and no I didn't enter the challenge realm at all, I was practically ONLY smiting & Divine Staring.

    Either way, I guess that yes, I understand where you're coming from, but I still think the cloak is great for us. Our class has been doing mostly amazing throughout this expansion and I can understand Blizzard giving us a bit of a "less underpowered" cloak, compared to what the same cloak is to other classes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dmfg View Post
    I have no idea how your guild is getting 20-28% uptimes on spirit of Chiji when mine are all around 10%. Does it scale with haste? It's on a RPPM system so spell selection shouldn't be making a difference..
    I really have no idea.

  5. #45
    As disc in a 12/14 25n run my cloak never went above 5% of my healing done and my average uptime was around 14%. The "best" fight for me were Thok (4.7% of my healing) worst was Spoils (0.2% of healing @ a whopping 39247), although to be entirely fair I pretty much did nothing other than dps and jump around a bit on spoils. I had a significantly higher contribution from the cloak on my restoration shaman alt (6%+++++ on every fight) but that's probably more to do with disc mechanics etc.

    My only major gripes with the cloak are A) When it procs after I literally used spirit shell that second so I *know* the majority of that cloak proc will be useless and B) The itemisation is absolutely horrible for disc, it has no crit on it and has spirit (ew).

  6. #46
    While normally a 25 man raider, we did a clean up run on 10s so we could unlock heroic 25 man next week (I know, cheating!). DPS cloak did around 9 million damage total (about 6 million on Garrosh). We would not have killed Garrosh without it. Most of the damage on the fight is faily predictable (except the spikey as shit tank damage), so the healing cloak would have been meh. I may still use it in 25 man to see how it does on a heroic fight, but it makes zero sense to use it in a 10 man.

    Everyone use the DPS cloak. That way Blizzard has to aknowledge it as a problem .
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Aymee/advanced

    Game developers hate healers. We prevent their bosses from killing the players.

    "MMOC forums let me keep my job again. Whew." -Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street

  7. #47
    Brewmaster Lustinus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    1,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    While normally a 25 man raider, we did a clean up run on 10s so we could unlock heroic 25 man next week (I know, cheating!). DPS cloak did around 9 million damage total (about 6 million on Garrosh). We would not have killed Garrosh without it. Most of the damage on the fight is faily predictable (except the spikey as shit tank damage), so the healing cloak would have been meh. I may still use it in 25 man to see how it does on a heroic fight, but it makes zero sense to use it in a 10 man.

    Everyone use the DPS cloak. That way Blizzard has to aknowledge it as a problem .
    Nah, they will probably just say "Mission Accomplished" :P

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Uri-zuljin View Post
    We're still competitive too. We only did the first 5 bosses last night due to time constraints but I managed to keep up with our shaman on most fights.
    [Can't even quote links, I guess.] (Logs for the first 5 fights, not sure how to seperate trash from bosses but we had one wipe on norushan and one on galakris because of the fracturing on npcs every other boss was one shot.)
    [Tried to link your Galakris segment here, but MMO-Champion called me a noob.]

    Yeah, getting smashed by 25% totally counts as keeping up and being competitive. Don't feel too bad, though, the shaman in my 10 man smashed me by 35% while doing 5% more overhealing than me, too. (Galakris logs only count the boss portion of the fight, FYI, not the add phase, at least right now.)

    Disc always appears better than it is when there is more-than-adequate healing because of smart heals and pre-emptive healing. Now go look at how much overhealing your shaman did on Sha of Pride while still beating you on the meters. And be glad you don't have a Druid around to really make you look bad. I got crushed by one on heroic Jin'rokh 10, where I'm used to handily beating everyone by 25% or so.

    Discipline is dead last in throughput right now (and not by a small margin) and will only be valuable in heroic progression for adding damage (mostly in 10 man, since 25 doesn't care) and the ability to heal before damage hits. This situation is obviously exacerbated by the fact that the cloak is worth half as much (at best) to us as anyone else.
    Last edited by Adhemar; 2013-09-15 at 09:04 PM.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Adhemar View Post
    [Tried to link your Galakris segment here, but MMO-Champion called me a noob.]

    Yeah, getting smashed by 25% totally counts as keeping up and being competitive. Don't feel too bad, though, the shaman in my 10 man smashed me by 35% while doing 5% more overhealing than me, too. (Galakris logs only count the boss portion of the fight, FYI, not the add phase, at least right now.)
    The galakris logs are bugged still. Of course it's going to look like he smashed me when we stack up for the last 2 mins with all his throughput cds spread out. The logs from h Horridon would look exactly the same if it only started recording the fight the moment Wargod Jalak came out.

    Here's some more logs from last wednesday. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=639&e=1022

    This is all from a 25 man perspective.

    On stacking fights any shaman should be on top which is as it should be. It's their niche and if they're not on top then they're obviously doing something wrong. I do agree that the legendary cloak is a little lack luster for us. Since we're not getting any crits/da from the cloak it really is only half the cloak the other healers are getting. I feel like we're doing fine right now. However, if they decide to revert this divine star change then I'll start complaining because I feel like the only thing keeping us near the other specs right now was that last minute change to the lvl 90 talents. If they revert that then you'll have something to worry about. However, since you're 10 man it probably will effect you just as much as the spirit shell nerf did which is almost not at all.

  10. #50
    T15 4 set does most of time more healing than cloak, not very legendary.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Uri-zuljin View Post
    The galakris logs are bugged still. Of course it's going to look like he smashed me when we stack up for the last 2 mins with all his throughput cds spread out. The logs from h Horridon would look exactly the same if it only started recording the fight the moment Wargod Jalak came out.

    This is all from a 25 man perspective.

    On stacking fights any shaman should be on top which is as it should be. It's their niche and if they're not on top then they're obviously doing something wrong. I do agree that the legendary cloak is a little lack luster for us. Since we're not getting any crits/da from the cloak it really is only half the cloak the other healers are getting. I feel like we're doing fine right now. However, if they decide to revert this divine star change then I'll start complaining because I feel like the only thing keeping us near the other specs right now was that last minute change to the lvl 90 talents. If they revert that then you'll have something to worry about. However, since you're 10 man it probably will effect you just as much as the spirit shell nerf did which is almost not at all.
    Raidbots is functioning now and provides a good baseline for class performance fight by fight. Malkorok is probably the best test of sustained throughput as I understand it, and the logs make it very clear how far behind disc is. There isn't any way to slice that data where disc is not at least 10% behind, and we're much more like 60% behind the leaders. Granted, our forte (shielding) gets stolen from us here, but that's still a very bad picture for our available throughput. Disc appears to be doing okay on other fights simply because there isn't enough healing to be done for our throughput cap to become an issue. It's possible that will remain true in heroics, but I sincerely doubt it.

    I don't mean to indicate that disc is so far behind the pack that it's unusable. It's not the best, but it's still okay for most things and still fills a couple important niches. The real problem is actually that both resto specs got massive buffs they didn't need (shaman needed a small one and got a huge one instead, druids didn't need anything). This devalues priests the same way our overpowered shields (and absurd DPS contribution in 10 mans) devalued everyone else in T14.

  12. #52
    Works out at like 3-6% of my healing. Depending on the fight obviously. It's underwhelming but not useless, full time attonement spam is a pretty gash way to heal anyway given your DPS is a third of a decent DPS player and you're only ever healing 1 target, so using a cloak for that is meh. But you can't really over-amp the cloak because then it becomes a requirement for anyone wanting to raid. It's a just a bonus. It's an OK bonus, but still a bonus.

    I don't really see an issue for disc at the minute, obviously theres better classes but they're middle of the road and they still have a role.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3705&e=4043

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7386&e=7938

    2 straightforward healing fights and I can keep up with the rest for now. As you can see it's not a terrible, ended up higher than PoH on Thok anyway (Kronon).
    Last edited by Malania; 2013-09-18 at 12:57 AM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Malania View Post
    But you can't really over-amp the cloak because then it becomes a requirement for anyone wanting to raid.

    [...]

    I don't really see an issue for disc at the minute, obviously theres better classes but they're middle of the road and they still have a role.
    So the DPS cloak isn't over-amped and the healer one isn't likewise quite powerful for other classes? I'd hate to think it was a requirement to have the cloak to play a restoration druid but not a discipline priest. How unfair that would be!

    And your personal Malkorok logs don't mean much when raidbots is showing an entirely different story. The holy priest should be absolutely crushing you, but there are any number of reasons why he isn't (skill, gear, how you choose to deal with mechanics, etc.) and anecdotal evidence that you can almost keep up with him (if >10% counts as almost) is nearly meaningless.

    Your log shows you very near a demonstrable throughput cap while your holy priest is simply nowhere near the limit of his class. That probably doesn't mean much right now, but it has implications for heroic content. Whether or not it actually matters will depend on the tuning of healing requirements.

  14. #54
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...10/?enc=bosses

    Here's a log to show the damage I did on the first 8 bosses last night in Siege. I used the dps cloak on all of them. The cloak alone averages at minimum around 1% of the bosses health let alone all the other damage I do with penance and smite. Also worth noting that I had no issues keeping up with the other healers but that could be due to how broken twist of fate is for disc priests.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Adhemar View Post
    So the DPS cloak isn't over-amped and the healer one isn't likewise quite powerful for other classes? I'd hate to think it was a requirement to have the cloak to play a restoration druid but not a discipline priest. How unfair that would be!

    And your personal Malkorok logs don't mean much when raidbots is showing an entirely different story. The holy priest should be absolutely crushing you, but there are any number of reasons why he isn't (skill, gear, how you choose to deal with mechanics, etc.) and anecdotal evidence that you can almost keep up with him (if >10% counts as almost) is nearly meaningless.

    Your log shows you very near a demonstrable throughput cap while your holy priest is simply nowhere near the limit of his class. That probably doesn't mean much right now, but it has implications for heroic content. Whether or not it actually matters will depend on the tuning of healing requirements.
    No, the DPS one isn't over-amped, it's a bonus. But not something you would feel it compulsory to recruit based on, dropping someone over someone with a cloak. Like the healing cloak it's just a bonus, which was my original point. Raging because it's not everything you hoped it to be is pointless.

    My Malkorok logs weren't really to point out that I could almost keep up with a single healer, they were to demonstrate that disc not absolutely terrible. It can put decent numbers, which why I said it was middle of the ground... average. But you're basing your observations of it's lower throughput in comparison to a holy priest (which yes could hammer me given sufficient regen) based on a flawed premise. Disc is not a pure throughput class and as such it's healing suffers. It's compensated by it's absorption mechanics which contribute a fair bit to the overall goal of the fight. If your goal of the fight is "lol numbers!" reroll. As it stands disc is fine, it can heal, has a decent set of raid cooldowns, it reduces raid damage by a decent chunk and stands in the middle, average. It could be worse...

    But yeah, well see come heroic content when damage goes up, damage reduction might play a bigger roll than you realize. Comparing 25 logs it actually shows Disc is only below Shamans and Druids. It's hardly the worst.
    Last edited by Malania; 2013-09-18 at 05:14 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by twilista View Post
    Here's a log to show the damage I did on the first 8 bosses last night in Siege. I used the dps cloak on all of them. The cloak alone averages at minimum around 1% of the bosses health let alone all the other damage I do with penance and smite. Also worth noting that I had no issues keeping up with the other healers but that could be due to how broken twist of fate is for disc priests.
    Holy ... Okay, sold. I guess I will be switching to the DPS cloak until they nerf it.

  17. #57
    I would love to use the healing cloak as Disc, but it's impossible to ignore the DPS contribution the DPS cloak provides on progression. An extra 10 million damage from cloak procs can literally be the difference between killing a boss and hitting a hard berserk.

    Overhealing redistribution does approximately nothing for Disc outside of level 90 talents, and a +5% healing proc can't hold a candle to a +15~25% damage proc. The proc would have to be near-permanently active for Disc for it to be worth using in 10M.
    Last edited by Lothrik; 2013-09-19 at 11:08 AM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothrik View Post
    I would love to use the healing cloak as Disc, but it's impossible to ignore the DPS contribution the DPS cloak provides on progression. An extra 10 million damage from cloak procs can literally be the difference between killing a boss and hitting a hard berserk.

    Overhealing redistribution does approximately nothing for Disc outside of level 90 talents, and a +5% healing proc can't hold a candle to a +15~25% damage proc. The proc would have to be near-permanently active for Disc for it to be worth using in 10M.
    Our second pull saw us at a 1.6M wipe on Norushen 25 heroic . Sent me in the realm (disc) as it apparantly gave no downsides and killed it with 5 seconds to spare the pull after, me pushing about 114k dps and 380K HPS.
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7y...?s=7014&e=7429 is the log - cloak doing about 10% (so 14K) DPS.
    (and yes, we could probably have dropped a healer and had no issues with the DPS, but as I am playing on an old PoS laptop while my real PC is in for repairs, we opted to be on the safe side).
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-09-19 at 11:51 AM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Our second pull saw us at a 1.6M wipe on Norushen 25 heroic . Sent me in the realm (disc) as it apparantly gave no downsides and killed it with 5 seconds to spare the pull after, me pushing about 114k dps and 380K HPS.
    is the log - cloak doing about 10% (so 14K) DPS.
    (and yes, we could probably have dropped a healer and had no issues with the DPS, but as I am playing on an old PoS laptop while my real PC is in for repairs, we opted to be on the safe side).
    Hmm same here tbh, only we needed to go 4 healers where 2 of us were disc priests. We had major DPS issues here for some reason and after we switched to 2 disc priest we killed it with 4-5 secons left on berserk. The cloak did about 10% of my DPS here aswell

    And was sitting on about 330K hps, could have probably been a bit higher if we didnt use 2 discs.
    I would post the logs, but MMO thinks I am too much of a rookie so they won't let me

    I highly prefer the DPS cloak, the fights I did use the healing cloak I wasn't exactly "amazed"

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by meddle View Post
    As a 10m Disc (stopped at 6/14), it's been between 1% and 4% of my healing done (more often 1-2%), depending highly on the encounter and spell usage. Basically like having a 2pc bonus on your cloak. Not terribly "legendary."
    But the 600 ilvl and the stat make up for that imo.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •