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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    Unhappy 5.4 feels underwhelming...:(

    After last night 5.4 feels a bit...well disappointing. I came home last night late so I only had 15min before raid to get flasks and head out. To my surprise 1/2 of my raid was in Legendary cloaks....the first reaction was ...o.0 the fuck...It took several weeks for the gem, several weeks for the socket, several weeks for the meta....months for the dam cloak cause fuck titan rune drops.....1h for the legendary upgrade. I mean I was fine that SoO had catch up mechanics for the legendary quests...only natural given where we are...but common at least make it so you have to kill Garrosh for the fucking thing....

    That brings me to the next point...so far the difficulty of SoO seems a joke. I feel like normal is under-tuned and it's like we were running flex. One shot first two, had dc's and stupidity for the 3rd so that took a bit of time but overall i think under 10-12 wipes (some were quick). Sha was also under 7-8 wipes. While we had people lag out and fixing shit and taking a 15min break a friend of mine is 7/14. This feels like an easier version of DS all over again.

    inb4 "har har normals are a joke talk to me when you clear heroic" but if i recall Horridon in ToT > first 4 in SoO. I've killed Jinrok and Horridon pre-nerfs. Those fights took some effort and was challenging but we still did it. Hell even Horridon with the 10man "nerf" was hard then this. Talking with few people most say that Magera was hard the first time around than the first 7! In PTR for ToT NO ONE killed Lei Shen. In SoO PTR people were wiping @ 2% ON PURPOSE so others can see the fight.

    I am just a bit disappointed with how easy it is to get the cloak and with how of a cake walk normal SoO is. I mean we have LFR we now have Flex and with those are a scaled down from normal then LFR will feel like a 5man. It is too easy. People are not supposed to be 7/14 or more after one night of raiding. Lei Shen world first normal took a week and at this pace it looks like it will be killed either tonight or tomorrow and that is sad.

    I still like WoW and I found SoO to be a cool looking and interesting mechanics raid so far. The concepts are solid....I just wish they were harder.



    EDIT: Seems people are jumping on the Heroic Band-wagon and it is a valid point to a degree. Maybe it is just me but I prefer Horridon model of walls to break and push yourself vs a linear scale. We'll see how rest of this tier plays out. Again patch looks awesome and maybe it is the fact that our raiders are 540+ that it feels easy. Who knows.
    Last edited by MrHappy; 2013-09-11 at 06:06 PM.
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  2. #2
    They tried making the difficulty progress with each boss rather than random like Horridon being 2nd boss and one of the hardest for some groups.

    Harder should be the last few.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    It feel underwhelming because it is....I had my legendary cloak in 2 hours. The island is tiny, there is no structure to it, just a mass fest of people grinding. The world bosses are a joke, the celestials are cake, Ordos was a pushover.....I really hope to god we don't have to wait a year for the xpac with this stuff. I've been hearing from guildies that were already in SoO that it's equally disappointing.

    Ah well, at least FF14:ARR is out, once I get tired of LFR I'll play that until the next patch/expac.
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  4. #4
    If you wanted harder content then wait for Heroic. Just because some past normal bosses were hard doesn't mean all normal bosses should be hard.
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  5. #5
    They said they wanted to make the legendary cloak easy to get in 5.4 so you could use it in progression, makes sense to me.

    Your 10/13 in ToT heroic and your 544 geared and you want Normals to be challenging?

    How do they do that so the it is not a nightmare for people who don't do heroics, at best these people will be 535 geared most likely 530 ish.
    Last edited by Quilzar; 2013-09-11 at 05:47 PM.

  6. #6
    If it took me 10 wipes to kill a joke boss like Norushen then I wouldn't be going around calling things 'easy'.

  7. #7
    Also, what is better: getting a legendary at the end of a tier when bosses are on farm, basically making having such a legendary useless, or getting a legendary at the start of a tier, making it useful for killing the bosses.
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecrafts View Post
    It feel underwhelming because it is....I had my legendary cloak in 2 hours.
    After months of running raids to get the parts for it.



  9. #9
    Epic! Bosbeer's Avatar
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    Interesting point, how quick people obtained the legendary and how easy most raid modes are, weird that this has never been brought under attention before.

    I mean really? people have been discussing these topics for 3 months now and you only notice these issues now?

  10. #10
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    What you mean is 5.4's raiding feels underwhelming?

    Cause there is so much more to 5.4 than that.

    Honestly I logged in today and got my cloak sorted out in 40 minutes, then after that the whole day just flew by, I just had so much I could do, never a minute to stop and think, until I had to log to make dinner, and I still haven't done everything I had written down on my to do list.

    Maybe try looking at the other stuff we were given in this patch and it won't feel so underwhelming for you?

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Haidaes's Avatar
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    Dunno about your server but on mine there is a 30 sek lag for every action. One of the celestials was at 1 HP for about 5 Minutes before the server actually realized he was killed( I joined in at about 4:30 and still got loot), I don't even dare to hand in the quests because I fear I might miss some of the story because of the ridiculous lag. I won't be having my cloak anytime soon.

  12. #12
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I think they learned from the mistake of T14 and T15 with very challenging early bosses that caused guilds to give up and quit, and Siege is the result. Just like DS was easier because of the hardship of T11 and to a lesser extent T12.
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  13. #13
    Dreadlord Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    After months of running raids to get the parts for it.
    Doesn't matter Dar, this is the climax of the quests, it should have FELT legendary, instead it was boring. Just like the entire easy pointless grind. At no point in the legendary questline did it feel like you were doing anything legendary. It was all "queue for LFR kill bosses and collect items lul"
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Let's be clear: It's Pandaria, not 'panda land'. Everyone got the message?
    -Yes, yes let the anger FLOW through you.
    The community whined and bitched and cried, they stamped their little feet and demanded faster expansion releases. They don't get to complain now that expansions are shorter.

  14. #14
    I really dont get the point either. There is Flex now, why make normals EASIER than ToT was?
    The patch feels extremely extremely underwhelming. Proving Grounds Endless achieved in a few hours. And while we aren't raiding today the raid looks to be at the level of Dragon Soul.

  15. #15
    OP: So, basically, you didn't read anything that the devs had to say about patch 5.4, did you? We've all known for months now that we'd be able to get the cloak within hours of logging into 5.4. They made it clear that they wanted us to be able to use our legendaries for the tier instead of getting them after the fact. We knew this.

    We also knew that the difficulty progression in SoO would be much smoother than ToT. Again, devs said that putting a boss like Horridon so early in the instance was a big mistake. They didn't want to repeat that mistake, so, yes, the first four bosses are quite easy. As I said, we all knew this. Of course, it sounds like you haven't gotten any further than that, so why are you talking about how easy SoO is when you're only 4/14? I guarantee you that you'll start feeling different as you progress further and further. Furthermore, there was plenty of testing on the PTR and, like it or not, 13/13h guilds tend to progress through normals quickly. This is expected. Everyone here knew it would happen.

    So here's what I don't understand. You've got 2000+ posts on this forum. All of this information was posted on the front page. Since you clearly visit MMO-Champion, how was it that you didn't already know all of this stuff that the rest of us have known for months now?


    TL;DR? ITT: 13/13h guilds or 0-4/14 guilds talking about how easy SoO is. Ignorant people talking about how easy it was to get the cloak after literally almost an entire expansion of farming, solo scenarios, and celestial challenges to get it.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    They said they wanted to make the legendary cloak easy to get in 5.4 so you could use it in progression, makes sense to me.

    Your 10/13 in ToT and your 544 geared and you want Normals to be challenging?

    How do they do that so the it is not a nightmare for people who don't do heroics?
    I don't expect them to a challenge compared to ToT heroic but when you can topple bosses simply by not standing in fire and Adds>boss then there is a problem. I think that the biggest problem with SoO there is very few bosses that have an enrage timer. Some have soft enrage but sadly you can bring 10 healers and still kill bosses...to me that seems stupid.

    5.4 cloak to be used in progression sure...after 1h of doing something not related to SoO...not so awesome.
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  17. #17
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecrafts View Post
    Doesn't matter Dar, this is the climax of the quests, it should have FELT legendary, instead it was boring. Just like the entire easy pointless grind. At no point in the legendary questline did it feel like you were doing anything legendary. It was all "queue for LFR kill bosses and collect items lul"
    I can see your point, though I guess it feels different to everyone. I felt the culmination, though there were times I wished the ending was a little slower. But don't mistake grind for epic. I think it should have taken more world bosses, perhaps, or even a first clear of the entire raid.



  18. #18
    Dreadlord Lovecrafts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    OP: So, basically, you didn't read anything that the devs had to say about patch 5.4, did you? We've all known for months now that we'd be able to get the cloak within hours of logging into 5.4. They made it clear that they wanted us to be able to use our legendaries for the tier instead of getting them after the fact. We knew this.

    We also knew that the difficulty progression in SoO would be much smoother than ToT. Again, devs said that putting a boss like Horridon so early in the instance was a big mistake. They didn't want to repeat that mistake, so, yes, the first four bosses are quite easy. As I said, we all knew this. Of course, it sounds like you haven't gotten any further than that, so why are you talking about how easy SoO is when you're only 4/14? I guarantee you that you'll start feeling different as you progress further and further. Furthermore, there was plenty of testing on the PTR and, like it or not, 13/13h guilds tend to progress through normals quickly. This is expected. Everyone here knew it would happen.

    So here's what I don't understand. You've got 2000+ posts on this forum. All of this information was posted on the front page. Since you clearly visit MMO-Champion, how was it that you didn't already know all of this stuff that the rest of us have known for months now?
    Maybe he held onto that small glimmer of hope that 5.4 would be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Let's be clear: It's Pandaria, not 'panda land'. Everyone got the message?
    -Yes, yes let the anger FLOW through you.
    The community whined and bitched and cried, they stamped their little feet and demanded faster expansion releases. They don't get to complain now that expansions are shorter.

  19. #19
    I am Murloc! Anjerith's Avatar
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    A few things;
    - Nobody *nobody* had their cloak in under a day of effort. You have been building up to it since MoP came out. The whole thing was a questline to get to that point.

    - The island has timed and randomized events that occur daily. Nobody has done them all, because they don't all happen at the same time, nor are you going to see the traditional "!" or "?" everywhere. The point of the island is to spend time on it, it doesn't reward you for doing anything quickly.

    - As for the raid, roadblock bosses one or two feet into the instance is not a good way to do things. Especially if the bosses that follow are far easier. The rampup in difficulty between each is pretty good, although it could probably be tuned a little tighter. Also recognize that going into the raid with a bunch of people in legendary cloaks probably massively helps your group out. But, again, the questline involves Wrathion giving you power to defeat Garrosh, so it would be sort of silly to make you kill him 30 times before you could "Kill him Once and For All".

    Once again, for the OP, Horridon is a great example of a good boss design implemented in the wrong part of the raid.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovecrafts View Post
    Doesn't matter Dar, this is the climax of the quests, it should have FELT legendary, instead it was boring. Just like the entire easy pointless grind. At no point in the legendary questline did it feel like you were doing anything legendary. It was all "queue for LFR kill bosses and collect items lul"
    And the bit where Wratihon and Cho where bigging you up in Seat of Knowledge was not epic?

    Sure seemed it to me.

    I would much rather have the cloak for progression than having it after we killed Garosh.

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