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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    I would like to take the opportunity to /facepalm here.

    You obviously don't know how to read logs, 67 refers to the number of TARGETS you healed with a non-crit LoD.

    That's not the number of casts, nor even the total number of targets you healed with LoD(total number is 94 targets healed with LoD btw).

    And that is not even factoring in your LoD healing accounts for 10% of the amount you healed with EF. Way to link a log that directly contradicts your argument. /golfclap

    Finally, the keyword here is "prioritizing". Do you know what that word means? It means that, under normal circumstances you use something(EF) over the other(LoD). So obviously, that also means under abnormal circumstances you can choose to use something else(LoD over EF).
    Alright thanks for pointing out my not so good log reading, despite the condescending tone of yours i appreciate it.

    As for the healing done by them both you are like others again missing the argument im trying to make. witch i dont know how to make any clearer at this point to be honest.

    Despite my misreading of my log it still stands valid imo.

    @Freia

    Its not horrible advice, its sound advice.
    why would you spam LoD ? i suggest you read up at my previous posts as well.

  2. #542
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
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    I feel like a broken record.

    Post respectfully. No "you suck, uninstall, gquit, stop posting", no calling people trolls, no "you're wrong because I say so", no calling names.

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Hainiryuun View Post
    Not only that, lets take this even further. First, if you actually truly did use LoD and EF that many times, that means your LoD's, which you wasted, at an absolute minimum, of 67 HP on only did 2.4% of your total healing. An absolute misuse compared to EF which did 22.1% of your healing with LESS HP. But luckily, you just can't read a log properly, let me help you.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ght+of+Dawn%22

    You actually only used LoD 16 times this fight. The number of times where LoD actually healed everyone for SOMETHING (aka, didn't do 100% overheal) was 3 times. You know how many times where you literally healed for ZERO and had 100% overheal on all the people you casted it on? Twice. The number of times where only 1 person actually got a heal? 2. Then another 4 where 2 "technically" get healed, but one of them was for such a minimal amount that it might as well have been straight overheal. An unbuffed LoD hits for only. So about half of your LoD uses were basically complete wastes, other than throwing a 25k shield on some people (and it probably wasn't anywhere close to that amount. That's assuming LoD actually hitting a person for 50k and 50% mastery, which are both unlikely). 3 actually good uses of it, and some "OK" uses when EF still probably would have been better.
    Alright i did enjoy reading that and appreciate you took the time to break it down ( tho it didn't have much to do with the point i'm trying to make (again))
    That being said, for this discussion to not degenerate and end up in name calling and badmouthing i see no point in continuing beyond this.
    I hope my miss reading of logs and being set straight, was of use for someone tho.

    Feel free to pm me if you have additional point to make or something and ill happily reply.

  4. #544
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xgis View Post
    Alright thanks for pointing out my not so good log reading, despite the condescending tone of yours i appreciate it.

    As for the healing done by them both you are like others again missing the argument im trying to make. witch i dont know how to make any clearer at this point to be honest.

    Despite my misreading of my log it still stands valid imo.

    @Freia

    Its not horrible advice, its sound advice.
    why would you spam LoD ? i suggest you read up at my previous posts as well.
    I suggest you read my posts. I basically said "if you prioritize LoD over EF while specced for EF, you are doing it wrong". You then said it was bad advice. Nope. You just fail at understanding what "prioritize" means as PosPosPos as already stated.

    You said this earlier
    "If you only cast one LoD during an entire encounter you are doing it wrong. So im assuming you are trolling. "

    If you never run into any point during a fight where casting Light of Dawn is better than an Eternal Flame(examples have been given in this thread), then no you aren't doing it wrong and saying otherwise is incorrect.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-11-19 at 09:26 PM.

  5. #545
    Actually, it's exactly the point that I was contradicting. Only 3 of your 16 uses you actually got the full use of using LoD, meaning EF would have been better used to actually keeping everyone alive. Meaning if playing perfectly/correctly, you would have only used LoD 3 times. It directly refutes what you said about EF only being viable only for Malkorok. No one here is saying never to use LoD, period, but for the most part, LoD is usually just wasted, so EF will be the much better heal to use. Also, because of that, yes, there will be occasions where LoD is never used on a fight.

  6. #546
    High Overlord Juicyjonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xgis View Post
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3149&e=3806

    Number of LoD's 67
    Number of EF's 51

    Boss dead.
    am i a bad healer ? no.

    So basically you have told your officers to pass on potentially great healer because your bad advice.
    LOLOLOL.

    That is the reason why good guilds are held back and can't progress... It's because there are bad raiders who are so stubborn and just think "Well, as long as the boss is dead then my job is done!!!"

    People 'in general' (NOT TARGETING ANYONE IN THE FORUM) need to use more common sense.... please?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarius View Post
    Guess it makes more sense to me when u put like that :P

    So, I think you should probably retract your statement on that new Holy Paladin app you received...

    He probably knows what he's doing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xgis View Post
    Alright thanks for pointing out my not so good log reading, despite the condescending tone of yours i appreciate it.

    As for the healing done by them both you are like others again missing the argument im trying to make. witch i dont know how to make any clearer at this point to be honest.

    Despite my misreading of my log it still stands valid imo.

    @Freia

    Its not horrible advice, its sound advice.
    why would you spam LoD ? i suggest you read up at my previous posts as well.


    No, it's not sound advice. The thread is to educate and guide Holy Paladins and to discuss essential aspects of our healing core.

    From your posts, I think it's evident that paladins are not being guided down the right path.

  7. #547
    Blademaster Clarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juicyjonny View Post
    So, I think you should probably retract your statement on that new Holy Paladin app you received...

    He probably knows what he's doing.
    No. Being 13/14 HC we expect our applicants to have a very good/perfect knowledge of their class, and as it has been stated by many, the advice to remove LoD from ur bars was aimed at ppl trying to get used to EF.
    Plus we already have to get rid of some player to make our roster fit 20 man raiding.

  8. #548
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    1) I'd almost never recommend someone remove an ability from their bars unless they were learning. Do I have LoD on my bars in EF spec? Sure. I also have Judgment on my bars though. And Turn Evil.

    2) "I'm 13/14H" doesn't mean "I'm a good healer," I think esp. at this point you can be sub-optimal and 14/14H for that matter. Everyone can improve, some more than others.

  9. #549
    Blademaster Clarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    2) "I'm 13/14H" doesn't mean "I'm a good healer," I think esp. at this point you can be sub-optimal and 14/14H for that matter. Everyone can improve, some more than others.
    I didnt mean to sound "cocky" by saying i am 13/14, was just trying to explain why we wouldnt recruit someone who doesnt know how or when to use LoD over EF.

  10. #550
    For anyone who missed it btw, this thread was temporarily locked to prevent a squabble breaking out, can we please just leave this discussion as:

    'Take LoD off your bars' is advice for new players, and has no bearing over any of the people who regularly read this MMO-C forum. Specially ones that are 14/14 or 13/14 or w/e progress you are. This piece of advice is pretty much strictly for use in the "Fix my Heals" thread, where it should have stayed, and is only used as a temporary measure while they (re)condition themselves into using LoD less while in an EF spec.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    2) "I'm 13/14H" doesn't mean "I'm a good healer," I think esp. at this point you can be sub-optimal and 14/14H for that matter.

    Blanket statement: 13/14H just means you have more time than most to spend raiding.

  12. #552
    High Overlord Juicyjonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarius View Post
    No. Being 13/14 HC we expect our applicants to have a very good/perfect knowledge of their class, and as it has been stated by many, the advice to remove LoD from ur bars was aimed at ppl trying to get used to EF.
    Plus we already have to get rid of some player to make our roster fit 20 man raiding.
    Lol, Dammmmm, you guys are already sealing your roster list for an expansion almost a year away??

  13. #553
    LoD is useful on Thok, right? RIGHT? TELL ME I'M RIGHT PLEASE

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarDz View Post
    LoD is useful on Thok, right? RIGHT? TELL ME I'M RIGHT PLEASE
    Yes, LoD is situational useful on Thok even if specced in EF

  15. #555
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarDz View Post
    LoD is useful on Thok, right? RIGHT? TELL ME I'M RIGHT PLEASE
    Um... depending on your comp/situation... less useful than you might think. By a lot.

    Regardless, I don't "do" EF Thok and I have no desire to reinforce self-justifications. If you think you're right, then you can continue thinking you're right for all I care.

  16. #556
    I'm not here to tell you i'm right, i'm here to learn and obliviously EF spam is better than LoD spam.
    But you have to use it, specially on big burst AOE like Thok i think. You can EF all your raid but you need to use some LoD in P1 imo.

  17. #557
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Thok has been discussed. You are better off going Selfless Healer for it if you are using a lot of LoD. Go back a few pages and both playstyles are discussed in regards to thok. There is no point bringing that argument back up.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-11-20 at 04:31 AM.

  18. #558
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NarDz View Post
    I'm not here to tell you i'm right, i'm here to learn (so that's the claim)

    But you have to use it, specially on big burst AOE like Thok i think. You can EF all your raid but you need to use some LoD in P1 imo. (not a question, but a statement)
    "If you think you're right, then you can continue thinking you're right for all I care."

    (By the way, what is the second part of that second line of your post even supposed to mean?)

  19. #559
    For Thok, LoD is useful *if* you have no other choice but to use it or trigger Blood Frenzy, if you can avoid it by any other method (in the raid that is) it should be used, within reason of course.

  20. #560
    So a while back I was looking through top heroic parses trying to figure out ways to optimize my healing playstyle. There were a lot of players (like Smirk from Paragon) that didn't raid on their Holy Paladins this tier in 10 man so it was hard trying to find players to examine. During my search I came across a certain Holy Paladin on the EU servers named Pringli.

    After looking through a lot of his logs I noticed he had #1 parses for a number of of heroic bosses. When I went through the Log Browser/Expression Editor I noticed some things about his playstyle.

    He was primarily using Flash of Light, Holy Shock, and Crusader Strike (in range of boss or adds) to build Holy Power, and Holy Radiance only when Infusion of Light procced. What peaked my interest was that he was using FoL and CS so much to build HP. I've been trying it out and I've noticed a definite increase in my numbers.

    Just curious what more progressed Holy Paladins thought about this. I know there are certain things he does that probably skew his numbers in his favor (things like popping AW, HA, and DF at the start or going mostly mastery while running with a Resto Shaman) but I just wanted to make sure I haven't been putting more strain on my other healer at the benefit of better numbers.
    Last edited by Healtuff; 2013-11-23 at 08:09 PM.

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