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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Healtuff View Post
    snip
    No doubt that pringli guy is decent and I dont question his playstyle, CS is good to some extend and same with FoL, depends how much he uses them tho. However keep in mind his logs are insanely skewed due to underperforming healers as seen on this log for example.

  2. #562
    Isnt log in norushen broken? there is a log from h jugger http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3369&e=3651 he used 2 cs and 5 fol, but its look like he beacon dance a lot.

    This one is from H thok
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7186&e=7558

  3. #563
    Not sure. Some fights/raids he does it a lot and others not so much.


    Fallen Protectors (10/16/13): 28 CS
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-gs...7/?s=529&e=904

    Iron Juggernaut (10/23/13): 18 CS
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-l0...?s=2315&e=2590

    General Nazgrim (10/23/13): 19 CS
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2t...?s=7766&e=8054

    Thok (10/3/13): 27 CS
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1b...?s=3433&e=3948

    Immerseus (10/16/13): 11 CS
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-47...?s=1074&e=1446

    Sha of Pride (10/23/23): 33 CS
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lt...5/?s=624&e=958

    Fights like Malkorok where a healer isn't supposed to be in melee, for instance, aren't really going to have much CS use.


    As far as FoL, after looking a bit more at some of the logs he uses it the most when he pops HA (which makes sense since you're trying to get the most HP building moves off during it's duration).
    Last edited by Healtuff; 2013-11-24 at 12:55 AM.

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Healtuff View Post
    text
    While I am not greatly progressed I do use FoL more often than most. Reason for me is that we often run with 2 tanks and no melee, making it a waste of my time(like on Jugg) to cast a HR, since it will only reach 1 target. Sure, I will use HR with infusion, and if we have a melee I try and use HR, but with a full ranged setup, often spreadout its just impossible on some fights to HR effectively, and FoL is then just a bit faster.

  5. #565
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    You know... I hate to call you out, but sometimes in your posts I think you pay way, way too much attention to other people and not enough to figure things out from your own experience. It's not that following logs is a bad thing or that you shouldn't do it (you should!) but I always feel it's better to use them to supplement your own experience, not to replace it.

    If you are using CS and it's working for you (I think it is a waste of mana personally since SOI doesn't give mana return anymore, but this is also 25m perspective where HR will almost always be worth it compared to 10m) and your parses, raid stability, and mana can support it, then it's a good idea to continue doing so.

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    You know... I hate to call you out, but sometimes in your posts I think you pay way, way too much attention to other people and not enough to figure things out from your own experience.
    Lol. Fair enough.

    It's actually funny that you say that because I really haven't posted that much on the forums here since returning to WoW (11 posts since I started playing again in January of 2013) and I didn't think I was posting too much about other players... but you're actually pretty spot on. I do try and see what other players are doing and use it to improve my own play style.

    I do this in most aspects of my life as well. I like to check how successful individuals act, or dress and mirror it in hopes that it will make me a more marketable asset in the eyes of employers. In my EE program at school I will check how a certain problem or project has been tackled before and utilize those methods in my own implementation.

    But I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, though. Especially since in WoW I only have 6 hours a week to raid so anything I can do while not logged in (strats, theorycrafting, stat priority optimization) allows me to be the best player I'm capable of being. That doesn't mean I just blindly follow something because I see someone else doing it. Far from it. I examine what others are doing, ask myself the question "Why are they doing that?" and then weigh the pros and cons of implementing it in my own situations. Like I mentioned, I've already been using a bit more FoL and CS in my playstyle since finding Pringli's logs, and now that I've had time to test it out and see the results I wanted to see if there was anything in particular that anybody else (especially players who have been able to progress farther than me) could forsee as a downside to this style I've been using.

    tl;dr: My numbers increased and I was curious if I was just meter whoring or if I was just performing a bit better.
    Last edited by Healtuff; 2013-11-24 at 01:35 AM.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    No doubt that pringli guy is decent and I dont question his playstyle, CS is good to some extend and same with FoL, depends how much he uses them tho. However keep in mind his logs are insanely skewed due to underperforming healers as seen on this log for example.
    Not to mention, many of his rankings consist of farm fights that guilds on progression would be taking 1-3 minutes longer.

    Take the 4 minute Malkorok for instance, the shorter the fight, the more HPS you are generally going to see as cooldowns start whittling off as the fight drags on.

    Edit: The norushen log has him doing the healer trial, which will obviously skew the healing in his favor.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2013-11-24 at 08:48 PM.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Healtuff View Post
    As far as FoL, after looking a bit more at some of the logs he uses it the most when he pops HA (which makes sense since you're trying to get the most HP building moves off during it's duration).
    He also has the Meta Gem. I never like FoL before the Meta, now that I have its FoL spam every time it procs.

  9. #569
    In regards to 10mans, are there any fights (aside from Thok) were SH will definitely out-perform EF or are they relatively equal in terms of output?

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyaza View Post
    In regards to 10mans, are there any fights (aside from Thok) were SH will definitely out-perform EF or are they relatively equal in terms of output?
    In 10 man EF is largely superior. It's better hps and it has the added bonus of stabilising the tank through beacon, which is much more noticeable in 10s.In 10s there is also more individual responsibility, meaning you're going to find you need a burst heal on someone with EF more often than you need a raid stabiliser with LoD.

    SH is really a 25 man thing. The HR portion of the rotation will always hit the required targets on 25 where it won't on 10s, meaning it isn't wasted. You don't need the beacon transfer as much on 25. Also, your heals are much more likely to get sniped on 25, meaning full mastery and full shields is there more effective way to heal than in 10s.

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyaza View Post
    In regards to 10mans, are there any fights (aside from Thok) were SH will definitely out-perform EF or are they relatively equal in terms of output?
    Too add to Pasture's comments. A big thing Holy brings to the raids is the very efficient burst healing, which other classes have to spend relatively more mana doing, so if you're healing with a Druid and you can take care of 70% of the big bursty moments that need 2-300k bumps, that leaves the Druid free to do what they do best and allows you to duo heal a lot easier. With SH you kind of act more like a Disc Priest, which may work well but it means both healers have to adjust their play style to each other, and generally EF is the more unique offering of the 5 classes, not saying SH isn't perfectly viable throughout (other than Malkorok, but thats just Mastery's fault), but you have to work your groups around both styles.

  12. #572
    Pasture and Xs. Thanks for clarifying that. I wasn't aware that SH was almost strictly 25man, as it can be pretty difficult to find good information regarding holy paladins in general. I heal with a resto druid in 10 man and I prefer EF over SH anyway. I was just curious about how SH compared to it in 10s, considering most of the comments I've seen it about it on here and other places seem to be directed at 25man healing.

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Healtuff View Post
    ... I came across a certain Holy Paladin on the EU servers named Pringli.
    ...
    He was primarily using Flash of Light, Holy Shock, and Crusader Strike (in range of boss or adds) to build Holy Power, and Holy Radiance only when Infusion of Light procced. What peaked my interest was that he was using FoL and CS so much to build HP. I've been trying it out and I've noticed a definite increase in my numbers.
    ...
    .
    I would NOT recommend using CS. CS misses a LOT.
    For instance, in the log linked earlier, there were 5 CS misses out of 21. Almost 20% miss rate. That's a lot of downtime for a spell that doesn't heal. When used during HA, that hurts to miss out on 3 HP. Here's the log:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...+%22Pringli%22

    Just go to expression editor and enter the following to see the misses for any fight:
    (missType = MISS_PARRY OR
    missType = MISS_DODGE OR
    missType = MISS_MISS)
    AND sourceName = "Pringli"

    I'm a 25m heroic raider and cant' speak to 10m, but I would guess he's using FoL during his meta proc. It's the quickest and most efficient way of generating HP if Infusion isn't proc'd. Also, he's probably lining up his infusion with holy radiance because of the 4 piece bonus (infusion gives HR/DL/HL 25% increased healing). I wouldn't recommend holding off HR for that proc, but in a 10m environment it might be more convenient to hold off since there aren't enough players in range for a good HR.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyaza View Post
    I wasn't aware that SH was almost strictly 25man, as it can be pretty difficult to find good information regarding holy paladins in general.
    SH works just fine on all the fights except Malk. But if you 3 heal it you can get away with SH for that as well. For farm I have stayed SH on all the fights and output is comparable if not higher due to the increase in shields. I did not use it for Siege and am not using it for Paragons but I am debating it. SH when dropping all spirit and going full mastery can beat EF output in most cases if you are getting decent HR splash. But the argument for spot healing, or healing raid members very spread is valid, EF is better at it.
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  15. #575
    I healed 25H Garrosh this week using the SH build. It does have weaker tank healing, no doubt about it but on bosses with one tank taking consistent damage like on Garrosh, as long as you are able to swap beacon fast, it's alright. With the SH build healing through strong AoE abilities like the Whirling Corruption feels a lot easier than with the EF build.

  16. #576
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    HC Thok 10 man question. Can't decide between SH and EF. SH provides awesome burst healing when popping cd's and it seems to ease the scream phases. EF provides more control but i feel useless in the scream phases when things gets tight.

    Healing with a disc priest and druid.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by kreebs View Post
    HC Thok 10 man question. Can't decide between SH and EF. SH provides awesome burst healing when popping cd's and it seems to ease the scream phases. EF provides more control but i feel useless in the scream phases when things gets tight.

    Healing with a disc priest and druid.
    EF most likely results into higher HPS (not much but a little) and popping EF for kiters might be a good idea. I used SH on our progress due to it was more reliable to keep ppl alive during AoE phases and made it much less stressfull for others healers. That's what they said when I tested both.

    However, due to the nerfs it might be easy enough now with EF also.

  18. #578
    EF and SH work on this Fight and both have their strength as mentioned above.

    If you opt for EF its useful to go for the 7170 haste BP so you can fit a HR in between screeches.

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