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  1. #1

    Ranged vs. Melee dps in 5.4

    I raided as a fire mage in WOTLK, and I recently started playing again. I leveled my mage to 90 before deciding to reroll rogue because I didnt not like the rune of power mechanic (if someone could comment on this that would be great, it seems ridiculous to have to manage standing in a 5 foot radius for a 15% spell power increase during fights with movement). My rogue is currently 85 and I'm wondering how melee fairs in 5.4 when compared to ranged dps classes.

    How are raids balanced so that melee can match ranged dps during fights with movement?

    Are ranged dps classes generally recruited more compared to melee dps classes? Clearly recruitment depends on what guilds need, but are ranged classes valued more?

  2. #2
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Ranged has always been valued more, and I don't think that changed in 5.4.
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  3. #3
    We dont really know what heroics are like yet, but the belief that melee are worse off in either ToT or SoO doesn't hold water for me.

    The biggest thing I have noticed so far is that burst AoE, and ease of doing it, is worth far more than being at range or not.

  4. #4
    Ranged are always more valued than melee unless you need a certain number of melee for a specific purpose which is rare.

  5. #5
    You can have a full raid of ranged and be fine. You can't have a full raid of melee or you're going to have a bad time. 1-2 skilled melee is almost always viable though. You can get recruited as a melee if the group doesn't already have too many, but it will almost certainly be easier to get a spot as a ranged.

    Mages are definitely in a great spot as far as DPS, but I agree that actually playing one is horrendous (was my second 90... I quickly leveled a Hunter for alt raids instead). Good Mages are in demand and seem to be very hard to come by. If you still want to be a caster, Warlocks and Shadow Priests are crushing it right now. Shadow Priests have basically nothing to do while moving though. Hunters aren't top-tier in DPS or raid utility, but they're probably the easiest ranged to play.

    For melee, Arms Warriors are broken or something. Some of them put up crazy numbers to the point that something might get hotfixed. They also have a lot of raid utility. If you want to level your Rogue, we've been in an awesome spot this whole xpac. We have Smoke Bomb (though not super useful in SoO) for raid utility, a slew of personal defensives (including Feint; probably the most OP ability in the game for PvE), adequate mobility, and awesome DPS.

    Ranged vs. Melee DPS usually isn't too imbalanced. Melee generally deals with fewer mechanics but sometimes has to sit around doing nothing. Melee also can't hit some things that need to die, which can occasionally hamstring the raid.

    Either way, pick up whatever you enjoy the most and find a guild that needs it. Good luck!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    You can have a full raid of ranged and be fine. You can't have a full raid of melee or you're going to have a bad time. 1-2 skilled melee is almost always viable though. You can get recruited as a melee if the group doesn't already have too many, but it will almost certainly be easier to get a spot as a ranged.

    Mages are definitely in a great spot as far as DPS, but I agree that actually playing one is horrendous (was my second 90... I quickly leveled a Hunter for alt raids instead). Good Mages are in demand and seem to be very hard to come by. If you still want to be a caster, Warlocks and Shadow Priests are crushing it right now. Shadow Priests have basically nothing to do while moving though. Hunters aren't top-tier in DPS or raid utility, but they're probably the easiest ranged to play.

    For melee, Arms Warriors are broken or something. Some of them put up crazy numbers to the point that something might get hotfixed. They also have a lot of raid utility. If you want to level your Rogue, we've been in an awesome spot this whole xpac. We have Smoke Bomb (though not super useful in SoO) for raid utility, a slew of personal defensives (including Feint; probably the most OP ability in the game for PvE), adequate mobility, and awesome DPS.

    Ranged vs. Melee DPS usually isn't too imbalanced. Melee generally deals with fewer mechanics but sometimes has to sit around doing nothing. Melee also can't hit some things that need to die, which can occasionally hamstring the raid.

    Either way, pick up whatever you enjoy the most and find a guild that needs it. Good luck!
    What made mage play horrendous? I've read that invocation is a viable alternative to rune of power, which was my only complaint about the class.

  7. #7
    Field Marshal
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    Invocation is an awful mechanic as well, that's the issue. The mage level 90 talents are absolutely horrible in terms of how they actually play (they are powerful, just terrible quality of life).

  8. #8
    Being melee is a bitch on Kor'kron Dark Shaman

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by hqsk View Post
    What made mage play horrendous? I've read that invocation is a viable alternative to rune of power, which was my only complaint about the class.
    All of the 90 talents were annoying. Fire had way too much RNG and too much of it was just casting Fireball. Arcane was ok, but the numbers were too low to justify playing it. Frost was alright. Fully utilizing Alter Time while doing mechanics usually ended badly and just felt clunky. I also felt really squishy with very little I could do for myself.

    Last time I played my mage was back when MoP first dropped. It could be better now. I'm not much of a caster anyway though; I just don't enjoy the archetype. I don't even like my hunter that much, but I need a non-melee alt.

  10. #10
    Here's your solution, OP: Elemental Shaman.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Good Players are in demand and seem to be very hard to come by. Good luck!
    Fixed.


    Melee actually has a nice advantage on Thok post-hotfix. I wonder how fast you can kill him with something like a Rogue/DK/Enh/Ret/Hunter/Feral stacked group...with like a Rdruid+Rshammy comp.

  12. #12
    Do 10 /25 mans have an optimal composition? As an example, a guild needs 1 rogue, 2 mages, 2 spriests etc for a portion of a raid?

    EDIT: What is the best way to join a competent raiding guild? Web forums like this or the official WoW forums, going to guild websites from in-game advertisements?
    Last edited by hqsk; 2013-09-13 at 08:45 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlolz View Post
    Fixed.


    Melee actually has a nice advantage on Thok post-hotfix. I wonder how fast you can kill him with something like a Rogue/DK/Enh/Ret/Hunter/Feral stacked group...with like a Rdruid+Rshammy comp.
    Don't forget that extending the kiting phase and doing as much damage as possible to him during that is helpful. Melee can't hit him during that phase without being eaten.

  14. #14
    You can have a full raid of ranged and be fine. You can't have a full raid of melee or you're going to have a bad time. 1-2 skilled melee is almost always viable though. You can get recruited as a melee if the group doesn't already have too many, but it will almost certainly be easier to get a spot as a ranged.
    This is the main reason. Melee have their niche, but ranged can do those nearly just as well. Ranged have their niche, but melee can't really do those at all.
    Dark Shaman I've heard should be bad for melee. Also Galakras because firestuff/cleaves and you can't see it in the giant pile of mobs. Then again melee all have interrupts which is nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by hqsk View Post
    What made mage play horrendous? I've read that invocation is a viable alternative to rune of power, which was my only complaint about the class.
    It's very boring honestly. (Opinion)

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Roll a Ranged with good AoE and you will be fine; Ele Shaman, Warlock, Hunter. All have fantastic DPS on the move also each are very much desired for 10m groups.

  16. #16
    Amusingly:
    Quote Originally Posted by hqsk View Post
    I leveled my mage to 90 before deciding to reroll rogue because I didnt not like the rune of power mechanic.

    How are raids balanced so that melee can match ranged dps during fights with movement?
    With mechanics like rune of power ;-)

  17. #17
    As being said, you can only have a limited number of melees in a raid, and as usual there are bosses that aren't melee-friendly at all, yet I can't see any where you'd want to stack as little ranged as possible.

    On the other hand, though, being melee is usually easier to play than ranged, as Blizzard's favorite incentive to bring melees is to simply make them deal with much less mechanics than ranged (the perfect example being Lei Shen).

  18. #18
    Ranged will always be preferred. Blizzard will say that only the absolute top guilds will care, but that's a big fat lie.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Superlolz View Post
    Fixed.


    Melee actually has a nice advantage on Thok post-hotfix. I wonder how fast you can kill him with something like a Rogue/DK/Enh/Ret/Hunter/Feral stacked group...with like a Rdruid+Rshammy comp.
    You're kidding right? Ranged dps blow the boss up during the kite phase.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dryaan View Post
    Blizzard's favorite incentive to bring melees is to simply make them deal with much less mechanics than ranged (the perfect example being Lei Shen).
    No Diffusion Chain/Ball lightning for melee
    No Crashing Thunder for ranged.

    So for being hit with ONE less ability (that actually doesn't really matter, as diffusion only requires a loose spread, so it's handled by default) melee get to fully stop DPS on every thunderstruck (swapping plataform), every overcharge on rangeds (and that means close to all overcharges), and every bouncing bolt rangeds can't make (usually the ones behind pillars)

    Yup, Lei Shen is a great example of "melee favored" fight.

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