Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Why is haste the worse stat for Arms?

    Wouldn't mastery be the least desired stat given how haste in its own way increases the chance for mastery to proc?

  2. #2
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    149
    Arms mastery procs on abilities, which haste has little to do with.

  3. #3
    Because Haste for Warriors only increases white attack speed, and that's more or less useless. Haste is good for other classes because it increases multiple things, for casters it increases cast speed which is huge. Rogues/Monks get faster energy regen, Paladins get faster cooldowns, DKs get faster runes, Warriors just get white damage. And Haste really doesn't increase attack speed enough for it to help.

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Because Haste for Warriors only increases white attack speed, and that's more or less useless. Haste is good for other classes because it increases multiple things, for casters it increases cast speed which is huge. Rogues/Monks get faster energy regen, Paladins get faster cooldowns, DKs get faster runes, Warriors just get white damage. And Haste really doesn't increase attack speed enough for it to help.
    EDIT: Ignore. Misread for fury cuz derp.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    5,701
    Warrior is the only class that only gets one, crappy, benefit from haste.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  6. #6
    Attacking faster is nice, because that's more auto attacks which can proc additional effects. But relative to other stats with much more beneficial effects, haste is the worst.
    We don't get ability CD's reduced like paladins, we don't get damage increase scaling like casters do.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  7. #7
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by vareck View Post
    Arms mastery procs on abilities, which haste has little to do with.
    Pretty much this.

    Although Strikes of Opportunity can't proc off itself, it will pretty much proc off all our other abilities (I think our tier 60 talents, Thunderclap and Deep Wounds are the exceptions).
    Last edited by Katallo; 2013-09-25 at 03:06 PM.

  8. #8
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Athens greece
    Posts
    26
    Dont wanna be devils advocate but :

    getting haste gives faster attack speed that gives:
    1 more rage
    2 more mastery procs (arms),
    3 more white dmg (combine with hit on fury has very possitive results on single target )
    4 trinks stacking by attacks get "loaded" faster
    5 more legendary meta and cloack procs
    6 plus warrs get double haste per rating

    Personally as fury with more than 15% hit when haste trink procs I cant control my rage I need to spam heroic strike to not get full rage.

    Its not so terrible...

    I am not saying in any case that you should go for haste on reforge or gems NO! dont do that! but if you get an item that has haste but its overall an upgrade dont hesitate using it.
    Last edited by Crownir; 2013-09-25 at 11:19 AM.
    I tank it -- You spank it.

  9. #9
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    France
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Crownir View Post
    Dont wanna be devils advocate but :

    getting haste gives faster attack speed that gives:
    1 more rage
    2 more mastery procs (arms),
    Although this is true, I don't think it's enough when you compare it to nearly all our other abilities being able to proc our mastery, in addition with our mastery also being able to proc Sudden Death and reset CS cooldown, mastery sims out as greater DPS.

    There is a caveat however (isn't there always)

    Quote Originally Posted by Crownir View Post
    Dont wanna be devils advocate but :

    5 more legendary meta and cloack procs
    Currently:

    Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (7.5%) > Crit (Until around 32%) > Mastery > Crit (past 32%) > Haste

    I'm sure I read somewhere that with two piece tier -16 bonus, legendary cloak and legendary meta, haste pulls ahead of Crit (past 32%).
    Last edited by Katallo; 2013-09-25 at 03:09 PM.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    3,398
    Quote Originally Posted by Crownir View Post
    Dont wanna be devils advocate but :

    getting haste gives faster attack speed that gives:
    1 more rage
    2 more mastery procs (arms),
    3 more white dmg (combine with hit on fury has very possitive results on single target )
    4 trinks stacking by attacks get "loaded" faster
    5 more legendary meta and cloack procs
    6 plus warrs get double haste per rating

    Personally as fury with more than 15% hit when haste trink procs I cant control my rage I need to spam heroic strike to not get full rage.

    Its not so terrible...

    I am not saying in any case that you should go for haste on reforge or gems NO! dont do that! but if you get an item that has haste but its overall an upgrade dont hesitate using it.
    How the hell did you end up with 15% hit?
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    How the hell did you end up with 15% hit?
    not sure about his individual case but it's pretty easy to do if you end up with heroic thunderforged feather + 2x heroic thunderforged weps off of council in tot. those 3 items alone give you 3k hit even when reforging out of it.
    Last edited by bals; 2013-09-25 at 03:07 PM.

  12. #12
    I don't know how nobody came up with this fact, and correct me if i'm mistaken but warrior is the only class in wow that it's global cooldown does not shortened by haste stat (Only not sure about guardian druids, rest benefits it). We end up with 1.5 even with 20k haste.

    That's why we suck on bosses gives extreme haste buffs. Why do you think every class goes sky high on BL/TW and warrior gets only white attack speed and a little more rage ? They made %50 more benefit to haste stat before 5.3 patch, yet it's not the stat to even think about it (for fury at least)

    Think about this, warriors have solid rotation can't be changed. Which you can only add extra heroic strikes and white hits or strengthen by mastery. And Mastery wins every single time. (since armor penetration times at tbc)

  13. #13
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    1,353
    Actually spirit is our worst stat.

    Now a more serious answer: mastery tends to do better than haste in multi-target situations. As this Arms guide says, mastery can proc off Sweeping Strikes, which can, in turn, proc Sweeping Strikes.

  14. #14
    I prefer to go crit > haste > mastery. While mastery can lead to more sudden death procs, I prefer the slight extra rage from haste. In raids i sit at 35% haste (that includes 10% haste raid buff), which leads to exactly a swing timer for 2.60. Besides, even though I am reforging OUT of mastery and making it my lowest stat, I am at 44% (buffed) mastery as arms, which is good enough for me.

    Though I do agree stacking crit > mastery > haste would be better on multi-target, I just don't deem it necessary given arms exceptional aoe as is.

  15. #15
    Now that you're at it is Swordhook slingbelt(vp waist) better than Poisonbinder Girth?

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    3,398
    Quote Originally Posted by Vojka View Post
    I prefer to go crit > haste > mastery. While mastery can lead to more sudden death procs, I prefer the slight extra rage from haste. In raids i sit at 35% haste (that includes 10% haste raid buff), which leads to exactly a swing timer for 2.60. Besides, even though I am reforging OUT of mastery and making it my lowest stat, I am at 44% (buffed) mastery as arms, which is good enough for me.

    Though I do agree stacking crit > mastery > haste would be better on multi-target, I just don't deem it necessary given arms exceptional aoe as is.
    Rage with the 2 set isn't an issue though, and sudden death procs are the base of the whole spec.
    I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27

  17. #17
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Athens greece
    Posts
    26
    Pretty easy getting hit high, even with single minded fury over 545ilvl. What I do is not stack crit more than 30% unbuffed.
    I tank it -- You spank it.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Vojka View Post
    I prefer to go crit > haste > mastery. While mastery can lead to more sudden death procs, I prefer the slight extra rage from haste. In raids i sit at 35% haste (that includes 10% haste raid buff), which leads to exactly a swing timer for 2.60. Besides, even though I am reforging OUT of mastery and making it my lowest stat, I am at 44% (buffed) mastery as arms, which is good enough for me.

    Though I do agree stacking crit > mastery > haste would be better on multi-target, I just don't deem it necessary given arms exceptional aoe as is.
    Without sims or data to back that up it's just an opinion, which is based on flawed logic and in the end, wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crownir View Post
    Pretty easy getting hit high, even with single minded fury over 545ilvl. What I do is not stack crit more than 30% unbuffed.
    *facepalm*

    Why in the heck...


    Oh well it's like I say, there are amazing warriors and bad warriors, but no average warriors.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post

    *facepalm*

    Why in the heck...


    Oh well it's like I say, there are amazing warriors and bad warriors, but no average warriors.
    Pretty much this.. I was scratching my head over that one aswell :S

  20. #20
    Warchief Archimtiros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by vareck View Post
    Arms mastery procs on abilities, which haste has little to do with.
    This is not entirely true. Mastery has a chance to proc off of white swings as well, haste does give a slight return to proccing Mastery, but ofcourse Mastery gives better returns in that regard.

    Realistically, Haste is not always a terrible stat for Arms, all the other stats are just plain better.
    I'll try to explain why the other stats are better.

    For single target:

    This is 1 target, using Dragon Roar for simplicity sake, as Arms. You can see that Haste only overtakes Mastery at a certain point (roughly 17k in T16H gear, that number isn't always set in stone, but for that gear level, its a good ballpark).
    It's important to realize, that while Mastery drops off at a certain point. Crit scaling never does drop. Since Mastery would be our #2 stat behind Crit, its unlikely you would ever actually get that much of it until you get into H T16 gear, even then maybe not.

    For Multi target:
    Things change drastically. Mastery is by and large our best stat up until a certain point.

    Here is 3 targets using Bladestorm. You see Mastery takes a commanding lead, while the other stats are still much more linear. Does this mean that Mastery is actually better than Crit or even Str at this point? Yes.
    Does this mean you should go regem and forge everything out of Crit and into Mastery? NO!
    Remember, that Mastery still suffers from that 17k breakpoint where its damage completely falls off. Not even minute gains. As your number 1 stat priority, 17k is very easy to reach in even normal T16 gear. For reference I am 563 and sitting at 18k Crit, 11k Mastery, completley unbuffed. If those values were swapped to a Mastery > Crit build, I would already be over the cap without even the Mastery raid buff.
    Also as soon as you stop hitting 3 targets and go back to 1 target, Str and Crit will start dominating Mastery again. Very few fights are total Cleave, so the above situation is unrealistic.

    Also as we increase the number of targets to 8 targets:

    Str and Crit get better and better, while Mastery starts to fall off. This is because you can only have so many Mastery procs at a time, regardless of amount of targets hit, and even its interaction with Sweeping Strikes is limited down to one additional target. Haste however is still far below.



    So TLDR: Crit > Mastery > Haste
    Last edited by Archimtiros; 2013-09-28 at 08:13 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •