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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    She acted well within her character. The thing is that sometimes people change, we used to call it "Character progression". Jaina progressed from peacemaker to pro-alliance.
    I'd say she acts less pro-Alliance in the cinematic, and more anti-Horde. You can be pro-Alliance without trying to punish people who just finished helping you.

  2. #242
    The Lightbringer Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Clearly, I know this would never happen but he should have listened to her. Cut the head off the snake when you have the chance, don't let it regroup and come back to bite you again, for what? the 5th time? Let the people of the horde live in peace, but disband the army in it's entirty or at least absorb it into the Alliance's ranks.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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  3. #243
    Let's rejoice she is finally evil!

    Since with Volj'in as warchief, this makes the horde probably good and due to Sylvanas inactivities on develpoing her evil agendas, its time to play the alliance toons. Now we only need to get rid of that pesky blue colour and turn it to a blood theme.

    Btw, 4th specs are still in discussion? Blood Mages?^^

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xalzel View Post
    My prediction: Jaina is going to become the new Medivh. Garrosh is going to escape justice somehow, and that will cause her to become filled with hatred not only towards the Horde, but towards Varian as well. She'll teeter on the brink of sanity for an expack. But then, when Sargeras sets his eyes on Azeroth once again, he'll use her infinite arcane power and raw hatred to bring his armys to the planet.
    that she becomes the new medivh was allready my prediction, heh. :P

    how many threads are there on this topic, anyways?

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    She acted well within her character. The thing is that sometimes people change, we used to call it "Character progression". Jaina progressed from peacemaker to pro-alliance.
    Well, see, that's the thing, WoW ( hell, the entire Warcraft franchise) isn't known for it's subtle and nuanced character progression; if it looks like a spade in WoW then you can bet good money that it's going to be a spade. Hell, this is the climactic moment in SoO and the entire Garrosh storyline, which could have went multiple ways and instead went the most obvious route with Garrosh, with Vol'jin becoming the new Warchief (who didn't call that one?).
    Sure character's have their moments, but these tend to go against the grain and if a character's course has foundation, such as Jaina "slowly" getting more aggressive and unhinged after the bombing of Theramore , then you can't blame people given the general course of events in WoW for believing that this portends an "evil" future for her.
    I, myself, don't believe that she is going "evil", given her new role in the Kirin Tor, but I do think she will become a problem for the Alliance, and possibly the horde in some regard, as things take their course. And if she doesn't and Jaina's storyline is the one of the few nuanced cases of character progression in WoW, well you can't blame people for thinking otherwise.

  5. #245
    Dreadlord Themerlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    Well, see, that's the thing, WoW ( hell, the entire Warcraft franchise) isn't known for it's subtle and nuanced character progression; if it looks like a spade in WoW then you can bet good money that it's going to be a spade. Hell, this is the climactic moment in SoO and the entire Garrosh storyline, which could have went multiple ways and instead went the most obvious route with Garrosh, with Vol'jin becoming the new Warchief (who didn't call that one?).
    Sure character's have their moments, but these tend to go against the grain and if a character's course has foundation, such as Jaina "slowly" getting more aggressive and unhinged after the bombing of Theramore , then you can't blame people given the general course of events in WoW for believing that this portends an "evil" future for her.
    I, myself, don't believe that she is going "evil", given her new role in the Kirin Tor, but I do think she will become a problem for the Alliance, and possibly the horde in some regard, as things take their course. And if she doesn't and Jaina's storyline is the one of the few nuanced cases of character progression in WoW, well you can't blame people for thinking otherwise.
    We all predicted it, but take a look at the cinematic again...Voljin betrays the fact that Thrall is actually in charge, and he only "speaks" for the horde.

    With that, magic has always been a corrupting force in the WoW universe and those with ample amounts end up being corrupted, no matter the alliance.

    I sense both Thrall and Jaina have been influenced for the coming invasion.

  6. #246
    She asked Varian to dismantle the Horde, not destroy it or kill its people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    It will never happen. The EU will disintegrate in a few years.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Themerlin View Post
    We all predicted it, but take a look at the cinematic again...Voljin betrays the fact that Thrall is actually in charge, and he only "speaks" for the horde.
    Except for the part where Thrall says "if you lead, I will follow" and bows to Vol'jin. Vol'jin is in charge.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Themerlin View Post
    We all predicted it, but take a look at the cinematic again...Voljin betrays the fact that Thrall is actually in charge, and he only "speaks" for the horde.
    I'm sorry, can you clarify what exactly you're trying to say here? Thrall appoints Vol'Jin Warchief.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Seja Victrix View Post
    She asked Varian to dismantle the Horde, not destroy it or kill its people.
    How are you going to dismantle the Horde without doing either of those things? Are you just going to arrest the leaders and tell the others "Ok fun's over, you cant be friends anymore!"?

  10. #250
    Dreadlord Themerlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byne View Post
    Except for the part where Thrall says "if you lead, I will follow" and bows to Vol'jin. Vol'jin is in charge.
    He had to bow, especially in front of all the other horde leaders. It is how he assures everyone will accept Voljin as the new Warchief.

    Everyone followed along with "mighty", "honorable", "noble" Thrall.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Themerlin View Post
    He had to bow, especially in front of all the other horde leaders. It is how he assures everyone will accept Voljin as the new Warchief.

    Everyone followed along with "mighty", "honorable", "noble" Thrall.
    Vol'jin says he wanted Thrall to be Warchief. If Thrall actually wanted to be Warchief (which he doesnt, since a while back he accepted he cant be both a shaman and a Warchief and do both jobs adequately), he would have just accepted the position, not given it to Vol'jin.

  12. #252
    Dreadlord Themerlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byne View Post
    Vol'jin says he wanted Thrall to be Warchief. If Thrall actually wanted to be Warchief (which he doesnt, since a while back he accepted he cant be both a shaman and a Warchief and do both jobs adequately), he would have just accepted the position, not given it to Vol'jin.
    I just find it funny that Thrall and Jaina were the main instigators in the cinematic, both influencing their opposing factions.

  13. #253
    Dreadlord Lostwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byne View Post
    How are you going to dismantle the Horde without doing either of those things? Are you just going to arrest the leaders and tell the others "Ok fun's over, you cant be friends anymore!"?
    You send them to bed without supper!

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Themerlin View Post
    He had to bow, especially in front of all the other horde leaders. It is how he assures everyone will accept Voljin as the new Warchief.

    Everyone followed along with "mighty", "honorable", "noble" Thrall.
    I'm sorry, but this is another case of someone seeing subtlety and nuance where things are exactly what they seem to be. Thrall has been the Warchief of the New Horde, even when Garrosh was the Warchief people both in story and out expected it to be a temporary reign with Thrall taking over again at a future date, so when the days comes to appoint a new Warchief Thrall , to most people, is not only the logical choice but the inevitable one . The look you seen was surprise and then a confirmation, maybe I might take is as far as surprise that the new Warchief was a Troll, but it certainly wasn't indicative of Thrall setting up Vol'jin as his puppet government; the storytelling technique mostly offered by WoW thus far would have Thrall in shadows or some such if it wanted to convey that making it blindingly obvious.
    Don't get me wrong, I enjoy WoW's story, but it's told in in broad strokes for the most part and should be approached as such. If Thrall is setting up Vol'jin to pull his strings we would know that, just in the same way that Jaina's attitude and dialogue tells us that, more than likely, she will be some sort of problem for the Alliance and probably Horde. We don't have much in over eight years (not including the RTS's) worth of story to give the benefit of doubt in regards to this.

  15. #255
    I'm starting to like her, used to be so boring.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
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  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Byne View Post
    How are you going to dismantle the Horde without doing either of those things? Are you just going to arrest the leaders and tell the others "Ok fun's over, you cant be friends anymore!"?
    The same way the losing side of World War II was dismantled without destroying or killing their peoples.
    Not exactly impossible.
    Help control the population. Have your blood elf spayed or neutered.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Elynis View Post
    Okay guys, I'm probably gonna get a face full of rotten veggies for this, but I gotta do it.

    Set aside for the moment that the Horde was given more attention this expac, and remember a key point within Pandaren lifestyle


    Balance


    This has been the undertone of the entire expansion (yes, I know its been Horde centered and unbalanced in that sense, set that aside and unclench your bottoms) [SIZE=.5](for the horde!)[/SIZE]

    While the state of the Horde was thrown into chaos, two character within the Alliance, that have always been each others opposites, did a balance dance of their own.

    Varian Wrynn and Jaina Proudmoore

    Let us first have a look at a Yin Yang symbol



    (if that gets huge someone make is smaller please =X)

    Yin is the dark side and associated with the feminine side, we'll place Jaina here. Hey look, she could stand on the white dot and from above she blends in!

    Yang is the light side and associated with the male side, we'll place Varian here. Hey look, in a lot of art, Varian is portrayed with very dark, brown black hair, we can plop him in that black dot and he'd fit too!

    Yin and Yang are the forces of balance within life and nature, and the circle they create is their constant. (This is a really basic and rudimentary explanation for yin yang. I do not claim to be and expert, I'm merely using the concept as an example, please feel free to add in or prove me wrong!)

    Varian and Jaina have constantly worked with and around each other, a balance to each and, in a sense, complimenting both.

    And here I explain;

    Back in Wrath, where we actually see the lore characters begin to take part in the world, we see Varian as the hothead while Jaina was often the voice of reason. Example: Battle of Undercity. While Jaina ports around trying to gather the truth, Wrynn immediately assembles a small army and heads for UC. Had he waited, and cared to believe what happened, he would have learned that the deaths at the Wrathgate were not a product of Sylvanas, and in extension, the Horde, but traitors within the Forsaken, Putress and Varimathras.

    When he tried to kill Thrall and Sylvanas (and, depending on which side you were on, even you!) Jaina steps in and ports the entire group away, unable to watch as the two who were NOT responsible take the blame and potentially lose their lives.

    I've always wondered how she got away with doing that? Must be the boobs or something.

    Another example! During the Argent Tournament, Varian vehemently believes that the Horde will cheat and slaughter their Alliance opponents. Jaina butts in and tries, nicely, to tell Varian to can it and not insult Tirion and his tournament. (If you sit in the tourny grounds, this particular event will play out several times a day, with a horde counter part, go look!)

    There are other examples within the comics and novels, but since the mass majority does not read them, I will leave them out.

    Unfortunately, it is also within a novel, Wolfheart (uuughhhh Knaak), where Varian begins to make his change. After repeated blusters with rash behavior, Varian finally admits that something must be done to curb his aggressive side caused by his Lo'Gosh/Goldrinn nature. (He ends up physically hurting Anduin by accident) The Worgen put him through the same ritual they used to quiet the animalistic part of their nature, and there his change began.

    He makes amazing strides in Tides of War, where Jaina makes her change.

    MoP did an okay job of showing you the things that Jaina went through (except Tides...uugghhhh Fall of Theramore DX) to fuck with her character, changing her from rational and often calm, to irrational and even explosive!

    And here we see the balancing act.

    Varian goes from jumping into a fight whenever he perceives a threat (even if it isn't there) to learning patience, calculation, and using a cooler head than normal. This pushes him into Jaina's realm of calm and rational, and as he moves farther into that realm, our little psycho in training moves forward into the realm of the irrational he left behind.

    These two did not directly cause the change of the other, these were world events causing the change, in a sense, nature find ever finding its balance.



    ...



    I could also be giving Blizz WAY too much credit for a possible deeper meaning to this whole balance thing.

    Possibly...

    Probably /headdesk


    I personally don't like where her character is going. I will admit, her passiveness in the past often made me impatient with her, but this odd sudden vehemence and irrational part of her we see in that cinematic was pretty far out in left field for her.

    It's not that I don't understand her distrust for the Horde. I get it, they've been the source of ALL of her pain in her life! (Dig up who the Lich King started out as before claiming Arthas, and where he was from, you'll get it ) She has every right to be wary of them.


    ***

    On an unrelated note, I'm under the impression that Lust and Envy had a freaky love child, kidnapped Jaina, and dropped the freaky thing in her place.

    I am done now /Hides behind something solid and waits for the rage to ensue
    What drugs are you on? I want some of those.

  18. #258
    Thrall has a baby with another women. She becomes evil, naturally.

  19. #259
    as blizzard dave kosak said on twitter She didn't say kill. She said dismantle. She asserted that the Horde should no longer self-govern. i agree u had your chance
    Last edited by nWoMATT125; 2013-09-12 at 11:26 PM.

  20. #260
    Epic! gaymer77's Avatar
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    I can understand her hatred of the Horde but she's turned into a total bitch after what happened to Theramore.

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