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  1. #101
    Dreadlord Evyan's Avatar
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    They did such a poor job on their character development.
    She was such a great character before MoP.

    Then tides of war came and she changed, I liked this part: vengefull, filled with hatred and afterwards calmed down, seeking peace but not backing away from fighting if the horde crosses the line.

    But what's up with this cinematic? This isn't Jaina? This isn't like her, she changed but not into this warmonger who tries to put down the enemy when they're weak.
    What reason does she have to want to tackle thrall and the others now? Her problems were with garrosh and his loyal followers...

    Well goodbye Jaina, you WERE a good part of wow lore...
    Changes for her make no SENSE AT ALL...
    Add Alpha female worgen as an option ^^!

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Evyan View Post
    They did such a poor job on their character development.
    She was such a great character before MoP.

    Then tides of war came and she changed, I liked this part: vengefull, filled with hatred and afterwards calmed down, seeking peace but not backing away from fighting if the horde crosses the line.

    But what's up with this cinematic? This isn't Jaina? This isn't like her, she changed but not into this warmonger who tries to put down the enemy when they're weak.
    What reason does she have to want to tackle thrall and the others now? Her problems were with garrosh and his loyal followers...

    Well goodbye Jaina, you WERE a good part of wow lore...
    Changes for her make no SENSE AT ALL...
    You make it sound like this has happened for the first time, allot of characters in Warcraft lore have made some 180. We are still talking fictional chars here and the creators in the end can do with them what they want and book =! ingame.

    In the books Deathwing was a cunning little weasel that didn't relay on strength alone, did you see what happens in Cata?

  3. #103
    Yes. People in real life never snap. Jaina is such an unrealistic character. >_>
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  4. #104
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evyan View Post
    Well goodbye Jaina, you WERE a good part of wow lore...
    Changes for her make no SENSE AT ALL...
    Just like the Garrosh changes going from Stonetalon Garrosh to Vale-destroying Garrosh. Whatever stupidity was beaten out of him in Orgrimmar was breathed in deep by Jaina. Maybe we can beat the shit out of her in 6.x for being annoying in ICC and dumb in MoP. I don't believe her "core" is preserved any more as the devs said.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
    Night Elf Independence Movement

  5. #105
    The fanbase has spoken. Jaina is more interesting, compelling and a better character when she remains a passive stick that doesn't move, aside from the daily kissing of orc feet.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  6. #106
    Pit Lord Adoxe's Avatar
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    Formerly known as NonameXADX

    Thanks to Noxychu for the wonderful avatar!

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    The fanbase has spoken. Jaina is more interesting, compelling and a better character when she remains a passive stick that doesn't move, aside from the daily kissing of orc feet.
    Nothing engaging about her character now.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Evyan View Post
    They did such a poor job on their character development.
    She was such a great character before MoP.

    Then tides of war came and she changed, I liked this part: vengefull, filled with hatred and afterwards calmed down, seeking peace but not backing away from fighting if the horde crosses the line.

    But what's up with this cinematic? This isn't Jaina? This isn't like her, she changed but not into this warmonger who tries to put down the enemy when they're weak.
    What reason does she have to want to tackle thrall and the others now? Her problems were with garrosh and his loyal followers...

    Well goodbye Jaina, you WERE a good part of wow lore...
    Changes for her make no SENSE AT ALL...
    Because getting angry after people destroy your own city, and people you trust betray is so unrealistic. What were they thinking, everybody knows that real people just turn the other cheek because that is the right thing to do.

    /sarcasm

    Jaina finally being angry with the untrustworthy back stabbing horde is one of the few realistic bits of story in the whole xpack. Frankly though the story fizzled out mid way when they went soft with her plot line.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Nothing engaging about her character now.

    As opposed to when she kissed orc ass and remained an ever passive drywood stick with some wet tissue paper wrapped around it? =)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Because getting angry after people destroy your own city, and people you trust betray is so unrealistic. What were they thinking, everybody knows that real people just turn the other cheek because that is the right thing to do.

    /sarcasm

    Jaina finally being angry with the untrustworthy back stabbing horde is one of the few realistic bits of story in the whole xpack. Frankly though the story fizzled out mid way when they went soft with her plot line.

    Agreed. Apparently this is really hard to understand for some people. But yeah, the teenage crush Jaina that allowed orcs to kick and slap her in the face, after which she would thank them for their generosity was so much more compelling and engaging! Lemme guess.. a lot of people being Horde fans, who are now pissed off that there is a character who is in fact no longer a fan of your little club of savages?
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  10. #110
    Don't bother trying to discuss anything logical about Jaina with Yarathir. He's too in love with her.

    I like how he scolds people for thinking Sylvanas is innocent (which I've seen nobody claim) while pretending that Jaina is an angel. She's totes his waifu, guize.
    It's LeviOsa, not LeviosAR!

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by BatteredRose View Post
    Don't bother trying to discuss anything logical about Jaina with Yarathir. He's too in love with her.

    I like how he scolds people for thinking Sylvanas is innocent (which I've seen nobody claim) while pretending that Jaina is an angel. She's totes his waifu, guize.
    Jaina ain't a angel no more, she became a realist, nothing wrong with that. The only thing that really bothered me thou was that smirk in the video, that was definitely evil.
    Last edited by Gungrir; 2013-09-12 at 05:55 AM.

  12. #112
    Dreadlord Amerin's Avatar
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    I did not expect that at all from Jaina, it's surprising, too much stress probs.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekosom View Post
    What is evil about her wanting to dismantle the Horde? She wasn't telling him to slaughter everyone; she was telling him to end the Horde as an entity. I agree with her. To pretend that Garrosh was just one bad apple is to ignore the fact that for a long time, everyone else in the Horde blindly followed along. Orcs especially have proven themselves to be susceptible to bloodlust, with or without demonic influence. So many others have done terrible things in the name of the Horde. Who will hold those people accountable? When the Alliance does what it must against the Forsaken in Gilneas and beyond, those very same soldiers they've spared will probably be used against them there. I sure as hell don't trust Vol'jin to hold Sylvanas responsible.

    She hates the Horde. She has every right to hate the Horde. Garrosh was only one element of a much larger war machine.



    Where does she ever talk about killing everyone? She implies nothing of the sort.
    You sir are delusional. I think it's pretty clear what she implies and expect only the most hard core Alliance fanbois to see otherwise. I however think it's good to have at least one irrational and possibly evil leader as it lends to excellent story telling possibilities. Did you really think they'd bring Varian up to this awesome level and not bring another down? I think some of you actually thought they'd raise all the Alliance leaders to amazing status and let them destroy the Horde. Ummm...ya they do that and you have no more game. You ok with that?

  14. #114
    Maybe it's just me, but I think there is a lot of middle ground between destroying the horde and doing absolutely nothing to ensure they don't just rebuild and start acting evil all over again. They bombed Theramore and all they get is a strict talking to from Varian. Bad Horde! Bad!

  15. #115
    Herald of the Titans Flutterguy's Avatar
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    These overreactions to Jaina are getting out of hand. lol

  16. #116
    I think people are upset because this is exactly the same way they started to break the character of Garrosh. One singularly justifiable event at a time until they start adding up and all of the sudden she's bat shit crazy.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    blizz decided the amount of shit-talking would've caused issues. Clearly they failed hard because shit-talking is horrible within the faction, so it really matters not what happens cross-faction, ignore still works.
    Shit talk each other rather than your enemy is really good boost for morale, i say silence the chat completely and just give predefined sentences in BGs, like attack the keep, defend point, help me and good job. Now that's anti shit talk right there.

  18. #118
    Having your home and friends blown up by the same people you sacrificed everything for would make you a bit bitter too, wouldn't you think? Put yourself in her shoes before judging her.

  19. #119
    High Overlord Elynis's Avatar
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    Okay guys, I'm probably gonna get a face full of rotten veggies for this, but I gotta do it.

    Set aside for the moment that the Horde was given more attention this expac, and remember a key point within Pandaren lifestyle


    Balance


    This has been the undertone of the entire expansion (yes, I know its been Horde centered and unbalanced in that sense, set that aside and unclench your bottoms) [SIZE=.5](for the horde!)[/SIZE]

    While the state of the Horde was thrown into chaos, two character within the Alliance, that have always been each others opposites, did a balance dance of their own.

    Varian Wrynn and Jaina Proudmoore

    Let us first have a look at a Yin Yang symbol



    (if that gets huge someone make is smaller please =X)

    Yin is the dark side and associated with the feminine side, we'll place Jaina here. Hey look, she could stand on the white dot and from above she blends in!

    Yang is the light side and associated with the male side, we'll place Varian here. Hey look, in a lot of art, Varian is portrayed with very dark, brown black hair, we can plop him in that black dot and he'd fit too!

    Yin and Yang are the forces of balance within life and nature, and the circle they create is their constant. (This is a really basic and rudimentary explanation for yin yang. I do not claim to be and expert, I'm merely using the concept as an example, please feel free to add in or prove me wrong!)

    Varian and Jaina have constantly worked with and around each other, a balance to each and, in a sense, complimenting both.

    And here I explain;

    Back in Wrath, where we actually see the lore characters begin to take part in the world, we see Varian as the hothead while Jaina was often the voice of reason. Example: Battle of Undercity. While Jaina ports around trying to gather the truth, Wrynn immediately assembles a small army and heads for UC. Had he waited, and cared to believe what happened, he would have learned that the deaths at the Wrathgate were not a product of Sylvanas, and in extension, the Horde, but traitors within the Forsaken, Putress and Varimathras.

    When he tried to kill Thrall and Sylvanas (and, depending on which side you were on, even you!) Jaina steps in and ports the entire group away, unable to watch as the two who were NOT responsible take the blame and potentially lose their lives.

    I've always wondered how she got away with doing that? Must be the boobs or something.

    Another example! During the Argent Tournament, Varian vehemently believes that the Horde will cheat and slaughter their Alliance opponents. Jaina butts in and tries, nicely, to tell Varian to can it and not insult Tirion and his tournament. (If you sit in the tourny grounds, this particular event will play out several times a day, with a horde counter part, go look!)

    There are other examples within the comics and novels, but since the mass majority does not read them, I will leave them out.

    Unfortunately, it is also within a novel, Wolfheart (uuughhhh Knaak), where Varian begins to make his change. After repeated blusters with rash behavior, Varian finally admits that something must be done to curb his aggressive side caused by his Lo'Gosh/Goldrinn nature. (He ends up physically hurting Anduin by accident) The Worgen put him through the same ritual they used to quiet the animalistic part of their nature, and there his change began.

    He makes amazing strides in Tides of War, where Jaina makes her change.

    MoP did an okay job of showing you the things that Jaina went through (except Tides...uugghhhh Fall of Theramore DX) to fuck with her character, changing her from rational and often calm, to irrational and even explosive!

    And here we see the balancing act.

    Varian goes from jumping into a fight whenever he perceives a threat (even if it isn't there) to learning patience, calculation, and using a cooler head than normal. This pushes him into Jaina's realm of calm and rational, and as he moves farther into that realm, our little psycho in training moves forward into the realm of the irrational he left behind.

    These two did not directly cause the change of the other, these were world events causing the change, in a sense, nature find ever finding its balance.



    ...



    I could also be giving Blizz WAY too much credit for a possible deeper meaning to this whole balance thing.

    Possibly...

    Probably /headdesk


    I personally don't like where her character is going. I will admit, her passiveness in the past often made me impatient with her, but this odd sudden vehemence and irrational part of her we see in that cinematic was pretty far out in left field for her.

    It's not that I don't understand her distrust for the Horde. I get it, they've been the source of ALL of her pain in her life! (Dig up who the Lich King started out as before claiming Arthas, and where he was from, you'll get it ) She has every right to be wary of them.


    ***

    On an unrelated note, I'm under the impression that Lust and Envy had a freaky love child, kidnapped Jaina, and dropped the freaky thing in her place.

    I am done now /Hides behind something solid and waits for the rage to ensue

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    So why is Sylvanas plaguing entire towns and cities to ooze now? Probably because of her selfpity, because of her poor fate at the hands of Arthas Menethil. Because she is now a spiteful bitch who needs to screw over others to feel a semblance of happiness/satisfaction in that husk of a dark heart of hers.


    Don't even compare that to Jaina who has a valid reason to do what she does/say what she says. Maybe if you tried to put yourself in a character's shoes for once, they'd stop screaming "omg jaina not passive anymore! RAID BOSS OMG EVIL"


    And yes, the HORDE did do shit. All over the years. Theramore was just the drop that made the bucket explode. And only Baine tried to avoid what happened at Theramore. The majority was co-operating, so stop using Garrosh as the scapegoat for anything bad the Horde has done. Jaina even tried to seal that hatred away in 5.1, but she was subsequently stabbed in the back by the same faction she tried to forgive.
    Here's the thing about Sylvanas: her actions are evil, but she doesn't do it for the evulz, and makes a lot of sense from the perspective of someone who is ruthless, vicious, and considers the survival and prosperity of her people paramount to all else.

    Plaguing Gilneas? Makes sense in the perspective of someone who does not want an enemy capital - complete with a very accessible port, with a massive wall for defense, and a population of werewolves - in their back yard. So she takes extreme measures to secure the safety of her lands, including making the city so poisoned that they couldn't even return to rebuild one day (so she thinks). Still evil.

    Plaguing Southshore? Makes sense for someone who is looking to expand territory and eliminate the presence of a sizeable enemy settlement. Still evil.

    Jaina, however, stated that she knew that Garrosh was the problem, not the Horde as a whole. She knows this. However, true to character, she acts on impulse and emotion first. She literally accused Thrall (long time friend and ally), Vol'jin (who she doesn't know), Lor'themar (who she knows was on the same side as she against Garrosh) of plotting against Varian and the Alliance within seconds of Garrosh being lead out of the room. If that wasn't a deliberate ploy to get Varian's hackles raised and was a sincere belief, then something is definitely wrong with her. If it was a ploy, then she literally tried to get Varian to start another war.

    So she's either crazy or a warmonger.

    And its also a brilliant parallel. Between herself and her father. Herself and Garrosh. Herself and Arthas. Herself and Varian. Its bringing the themes of WoW full circle in Jaina. Its delicious and I want to see where it goes.

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