Thread: 5.4 BM opener

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  1. #41
    Surely it would be better to use GT before you pop BW+KC? GT deals damage as it hits the target, rather than the second you press the ability, thus letting it benefit from the increased damage from BW is you make sure to pop it before the GT hits. This gives you an extra GCD inside BW.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alth View Post
    Surely it would be better to use GT before you pop BW+KC? GT deals damage as it hits the target, rather than the second you press the ability, thus letting it benefit from the increased damage from BW is you make sure to pop it before the GT hits. This gives you an extra GCD inside BW.
    The damage is calculated the moment you cast the spell, not when it hits, afaik

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    The damage is calculated the moment you cast the spell, not when it hits, afaik
    Gt is calculated on hit.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremypwnz View Post
    I've found pretty good results with:

    -0.5 Pre-pot
    0 Serpent Sting
    1 Kill Command
    2 Dire Beast
    3 Glaive toss
    4 Rapid Fire>Stampede
    5 Cobra Shot
    6 Arcane Shot
    7 Bestial Wrath>Kill Command
    8 Arcane Shot
    9 Arcane Shot
    10 Arcane Shot
    11 Arcane Shot
    12 Arcane Shot
    13 Kill Command
    14 Arcane Shot
    15 Arcane Shot
    16 Arcane Shot (Bestial Wrath ends)
    17 Arcane Shot
    18 Glaive Toss (Rapid Fire ends)
    19 Kill Command
    20 Arcane Shot
    21 Cobra Shot
    22 Cobra Shot

    With Lust on the pull, I usually end 20 seconds around 30 focus or so. No Lust and I alter it a bit after 17.

    I realize I'm stacking RF and BW but I've seen better results (possibly rng related) stacking rather than staggering.

    I'm doing pretty much exactly the same thing, turns out great to me.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    I'd probably looking at SrS, DB, RF/stamp macro then BW/KC, however if you are finding SrS is proccing TED then perhaps go for a SrS/KC opener then get of DB, rf/stamp, CS/as fillers until KC is ready but that way you'd loose a fair few seconds of the trinket proc under BW.
    DB is proccing TED.. so that's out of the question now.. And if someone else can test this and confirm, but it's looking like GT 'cast' is proccing trinkets.. not when it hits, but when it leaves my bow.. i had both trinkets proc.. Am I seeing things ? Why would this happen ? Some times it procs when it hits, but other times when it's casted..

    either way, if it is happening the way i'm seeing it, then the only option remains is Stampede macro (with /petattack since otherwise the stampede pets won't attack your target and just run back to you) -> BW macro -> KC -> srs -> GT -> DB and so on.

  6. #46
    I open with prepot/petattack

    Dire Beast
    Stampede
    SrS (to get CDs started going into BW, DB and Zoo update dynamically so no point wasting GCDs casting them after SrS, you want as much of your CDs lasting in BW; this holds especially true with TED - the first KC / GT will have the highest stacks of that trinket)
    BW+RF+KC (RF on cooldown, 30focus AS is rough even with half focus in BW)
    GT
    AS
    AS
    AS
    AS
    KC
    AS
    AS
    Etc..

    //edit Any opener without GT in BW doesn't make sense to me.
    Last edited by D R E A D E D; 2013-09-23 at 06:25 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    DB is proccing TED.. so that's out of the question now.. And if someone else can test this and confirm, but it's looking like GT 'cast' is proccing trinkets.. not when it hits, but when it leaves my bow.. i had both trinkets proc.. Am I seeing things ? Why would this happen ? Some times it procs when it hits, but other times when it's casted..

    either way, if it is happening the way i'm seeing it, then the only option remains is Stampede macro (with /petattack since otherwise the stampede pets won't attack your target and just run back to you) -> BW macro -> KC -> srs -> GT -> DB and so on.
    DB within BW? Isn't that a waste of a gcd? Seeing decent results with SrS, stamp/rf macro, DB and then BW/KC, GT etc... Seems the most logical opener but has its faults too. Also finding with Assurance I'm close to my BW whenever 5 stacks of FF is up, so I'm generally letting it stay on5 stacks even if I have 15 seconds left for BW to be up.

  8. #48
    Anyone else felt amazing with the ridiculous DPS we pull on Nazgrim start (with adds). I'm not really geared, but pulling 2.5m DPS was awesome. SPAM EVERYTHING, NUMBERs, NUMBERS EVERYWHERE!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    DB within BW? Isn't that a waste of a gcd? Seeing decent results with SrS, stamp/rf macro, DB and then BW/KC, GT etc... Seems the most logical opener but has its faults too. Also finding with Assurance I'm close to my BW whenever 5 stacks of FF is up, so I'm generally letting it stay on5 stacks even if I have 15 seconds left for BW to be up.
    With the trinket, that means you have a 10-15 seconds window for FF. I personally go with the feeling, but never go FF under 10 sec of BW.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by D R E A D E D View Post
    I open with prepot/petattack

    Dire Beast
    Stampede
    SrS (to get CDs started going into BW, DB and Zoo update dynamically so no point wasting GCDs casting them after SrS, you want as much of your CDs lasting in BW; this holds especially true with TED - the first KC / GT will have the highest stacks of that trinket)
    BW+RF+KC (RF on cooldown, 30focus AS is rough even with half focus in BW)
    Dire Beast does proc your CDs.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    I did this one last night as BM(Might be counted as the new Renataki sequence)

    0: SrS (Juju and Renataki should proc here for sure)
    1: RF+Stamp
    2: DB
    3:BW+KC
    4: GT
    5: AS
    6: AS
    7: AS
    9: AS
    10: KC with full Renataki stacks and Bad Juju up, seen 730k crits

    Edit: It's impossible to fit in a Cobra Shot if you don't use BL/Hero on pull, it screws up the timing and you can miss the 10 stack KC by just a few inches. Or you can Cobra and then wait like 1 second before the last KC comes off CD
    This is the opener you want to use, with the caveat that maybe RF could happen at step 4 with GT.. this lets it carry a bit after TBW ends and the haste helps with 2-3 cobra shots after.

    Apologies for coming across as an asshole here next.. but anyone using Direbeast or Stampede DURING TBW is an idiot. They don't scale with TBW, they auto update on trinket procs and such.. Get them OUT before TBW.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    DB within BW? Isn't that a waste of a gcd? Seeing decent results with SrS, stamp/rf macro, DB and then BW/KC, GT etc... Seems the most logical opener but has its faults too. Also finding with Assurance I'm close to my BW whenever 5 stacks of FF is up, so I'm generally letting it stay on5 stacks even if I have 15 seconds left for BW to be up.
    Like I already explained.. if you recall the renataki opener, that also had db/stamp during BW.. because stacking KC with max agi was more benefitial than losing that gcd..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaydenkor View Post
    This is the opener you want to use, with the caveat that maybe RF could happen at step 4 with GT.. this lets it carry a bit after TBW ends and the haste helps with 2-3 cobra shots after.

    Apologies for coming across as an asshole here next.. but anyone using Direbeast or Stampede DURING TBW is an idiot. They don't scale with TBW, they auto update on trinket procs and such.. Get them OUT before TBW.
    I too apologize for coming across an asshole here but before calling people idiots, try to read the posts first.. if you don't then you end up looking like an asshat.. The opener I'm working on is for TED.. Ticking Ebon Detonator. If you don't have that trinket then it doesn't apply to you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by D R E A D E D View Post
    I open with prepot/petattack

    Dire Beast
    Stampede
    SrS (to get CDs started going into BW, DB and Zoo update dynamically so no point wasting GCDs casting them after SrS, you want as much of your CDs lasting in BW; this holds especially true with TED - the first KC / GT will have the highest stacks of that trinket)
    BW+RF+KC (RF on cooldown, 30focus AS is rough even with half focus in BW)
    GT
    AS
    AS
    AS
    AS
    KC
    AS
    AS
    Etc..

    //edit Any opener without GT in BW doesn't make sense to me.
    As fatal mentioned, DB procs both your trinkets.. making that entire opener irrelevant.. And for non-TED openers, the reason a GT before BW is plausible is because it doesn't cost much focus at all in the first place.. and it only snapshots when it HITS the target, not when you cast it. And GT is perhaps your slowest ability (highest travel time). So if you fire off a GT (being at max range from your target), you can easily then proceed to pop BW and have it activated before GT even reaches the target.. and when it hits the target, it'll benefit from the BW.
    Now I don't know whether there was a hidden fix for this or not in 5.4 as I have not tested it since last patch. But it should still be true.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamhead223 View Post
    Isn't that impossible now? Not seen them not proc on pull once this patch
    This depends on the type of trinket you've got equipped. It's a tad odd the way they explained it. I couldn't find a link.

    As I understand it, when at pull, every trinket works as if 90 seconds has past, ergo a trinket like Renataki will proc on pull or 3-5 seconds after, mostly, because it's thought of as having 60 seconds cooldown.

    Anybody please correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a few days since I read the blue post about it.

    On-topic:

    The opener I feel most comfortable with is this; (Running with BS

    SrS -> DB* -> RF + Stampede -> BW -> KC -> GT -> AS until KC is up again. -> Focus Fire up 5-10 sec after BW ends.

    *I use ToTH on most fights due to having 2pc & Assurance and most fights involves multiple targets.

    Also thanks for the info above me, Saoron. Made me a tad wiser atleast. ^_^
    Last edited by Nemesiz; 2013-09-24 at 12:36 AM.

  13. #53
    Yes I understand the opener for rentakis and need to get of as many KCs within the old 20 second time frame but I'd figured that that opener was exclusive to rentakis. If your testing is finding the same for assurance and TED I'm all ears. I just thought we were moving more towards the older pre rentaki opener.

  14. #54
    TED is in the same boat as renataki's so it will have a specific opener.. and then a general opener for ppl who don't have TED.. And the non-TED opener is the baseline opener that follows the basic rules of BW.. don't use db/stampede/srs during BW.. pop them before and then pop BW and spam AS/KC.. Overlap cd's with your prepot/trinket procs etc.. The only point that it might change is when you get 4pc.. then you'd want to unload your hardest hitting abilities near the end of BW.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    The damage is calculated the moment you cast the spell, not when it hits, afaik
    For most abilities yes, but GT calculates when the spell hits, essentially giving you an extra GCD inside BW if you pop BW just after casting GT.

  16. #56
    I made this only for hunters who already own the T16 4p.



    BM Pull Macro

    #showtooltip Virmen's Bite
    /use Virmen's Bite
    /cast Bestial Wrath
    /use 10
    /cast Serpent Sting
    /cast Rapid Fire
    /cast Berserking(Racial)
    /petattack
    /cast Rabid(Ferocity Ability)
    Why DB so late?
    It doesn't give you a 4p stack and you won't waste all of the bonus focus.

    Why RF so early?
    So you can get the most out of the 2p and it won't give you a 4p stack. So you have to use it together with an ability that does.

    Opener In Action
    560 ilvl gear
    ToT weapon
    Trinkets Renataki and TED

    Last edited by Fatal-; 2013-09-26 at 03:18 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Saoron View Post
    I opted for srs after cuz of the same reason we had to use db and stampede during BW in 5.3 renataki opener.. all to get a KC as buffed as possible.. If GT doesn't trigger auto attack then that srs will trigger TED and you'll hit KC with 2 stacks removed from it.. But like I said, it's nothing definitive yet.. just testing multiple options..
    Unless you don't want to trigger an Auto Attack when starting with GT, you can macro /!StartAttack

    Code:
    #showtooltip Glaive Toss
    /cancelaura Deterrence
    /cancelaura Hand of Protection
    /!StartAttack
    /cast Glaive Toss
    /use [harm] 6  <-- Frag belt.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal- View Post
    I made this only for hunters who already own the T16 4p.



    BM Pull Macro



    Why DB so late?
    It doesn't give you a 4p stack and you won't waste all of the bonus focus.

    Why RF so early?
    So you can get the most out of the 2p and it won't give you a 4p stack. So you have to use it together with an ability that does.

    Opener In Action
    560 ilvl gear
    ToT weapon
    Trinkets Renataki and TED

    This is a mighty fine opener - again fatal you come up with the goods. Thanks for sharing this.

  19. #59
    ^ what means ZOO here?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by yakuz View Post
    ^ what means ZOO here?
    Party Animals
    Jungle
    Rogue Anus taring gang(if all SporeBats)
    Stampede - Official Answer



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