View Poll Results: Your thoughts

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  • I'm Horde and I hate it

    197 14.91%
  • I'm Horde and I like it

    704 53.29%
  • I'm Alliance and I hate it

    78 5.90%
  • I'm Alliance and I like it

    342 25.89%
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  1. #381
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    Well it didn't really seem to be working, cause your warchief put a less than awesome Garrosh in charge of the Horde and look how that turned out. Thrall isn't perfect, he made the wrong choice putting Garrosh into power and the Horde suffered for it. Garrosh made you suffer. Vol'jin at least stood up and said. Nope. And did something about it.
    Actually I was never one to criticize Garrosh much, and no Thrall is not perfect, but have you seen Vol'jin's track record? He's not fit for leadership at all. I'd say Saurfang has all of the necessary credentials.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glitch View Post
    We have had the same old for years now, I definitely feel it's time to change it up. Not for the sake of change, but because the story needs to move on and not focus on the same characters.
    As I've said before, there's a difference between moving on+shifting the focus on to different characters, and completely betraying a core aspect of the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    It goes back on the rails because it shows the Horde is a faction of races based on family and honor rather then just "Orcs and their ugly friends". Hell, I hate the fact the Alliance is just King Chin waving his dick around while every other faction leaders leans over to suck it. I would support killing off Varian in a heartbeat to put someone like Tyrande at the head of the Alliance. Who the hell cares that the Alliance was a "human" faction or the Horde was a "orc" faction? Things need to involve, and the Horde of the orcs is no longer the savage "every orc for himself" clustercluck that was the Old Horde or Garrosh's Horde.
    The Horde wasn't always a faction of races based on family and honor, it's either moving into "new territory" or "going back to the rails" you can't have it both ways. As for the Alliance, speak for yourself, I'd much rather be in their shoes currently. Also, back during the times of Thrall's Horde, it wasn't a "savage, every orc for himself clusterfuck" Orcs were still the core but the other races got their time as well, that's the way things should have worked out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Putting Vol'jin as the Warchief proves the Horde can finally become what is was evolving to be. A family of races all working together for survival, no matter who the hell is in charge.
    See and this is why I dislike where the story is going, Orcs are becoming outcasts in their own faction, this whole "Family" nonsense that Vol'jin keeps spouting is making me much less excited for what's to come in regards to the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Fact is, the orcs are not going anywhere. They will still be the owners of the capitol of the faction. They will still be the majority of the leadership roles. Vol'jin in charge does not make the whole game change to "Troll and those other guys", it only gives more credit to a great character and a good evolution to the faction. We are finally moving into new territory here.
    Orgrimmar might still be the Capital of the Horde, and there may be plenty of Orcs in Leadership roles, except for the one that actually matters. I would disagree about having Vol'jin in charge, he is now the poster boy for the Horde, he IS the face of "Da Horde". Also Vol'jin is not a great character, I would suggest you read the lengthy post I typed out, as far as the evolution to the faction goes, that's an opinion, you might say it's great, I, personally, think it's the worst decision made by Blizzard in regards to the story, in a LONG time. Oh well, the vocal minority complained about Warchief Hellscream, time to start campaigning!

    Quote Originally Posted by Angella View Post
    All hail Vol'jin! All hail the new, ever afflicted with the munchies, horde!
    I was afraid this would happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Vol'jin isn't loyal to his "race" he's loyal to his Horde, as are others like Baine and Lor'themar
    Nice history revision you've got going on there, considering that Vol'jin let the Horde collapse and didn't even support Baine, during his conversation with Garrosh regarding the attack upon Theramore, all out of concern for "his people"

    And also, I understand an Elf can do no wrong in your eyes, but Lor'themar was going to leave the Horde out of "his peoples'" interests, Loyal to the Horde over his people indeed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    The best part of this is with a Troll leading the Horde maybe another race like say, a Night Elf can have a chance at leading the Alliance and this bullshit of "Humans and Orcs" being all that matters to the story can finally kick off for good.
    Sorry, Night Elves won't be leading anything while Tyrande's in charge, you're going to have to find a competent Night Elf before High Queen/King, will become a possibility. Also Orcs vs. Humans is the reason this game blew up so big, it's great to see people kicking that idea, it really is.... /sarcasm.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  2. #382
    We saw how Thrall's first choice turned out....

    But seriously I'm kinda indifferent to Vol'jin. Hate his model with the bat ears tho. I have a feeling they chose him as he is more likely to have skirmishes with the Alliance than Baine or Thrall would after these events.

    Personally Id like to see a complete end to the Horde vs Alliance storyline. All players shouldn't be considered full members of their faction as they are adventures and work with several factions and as such battles between them should be more like mercenaries fighting each other. All Old bgs should become caverns of time bgs and any new ones could be "hired out" by the horde and alliance to other factions.

  3. #383
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Yes, it does make him a sort of "Thrall 2.0", but it was the best option we had outside just bringing Thrall back and ruining all the development he got over a whole expansion and a few novels. I miss the Doomhammer Armor as much as the next guy, but I moved on, and am just happy to see a Warchief that puts the focus of the faction back where it belongs.
    Again I would encourage you to read what I wrote about the entirety of Vol'jin's story. There are plenty of other leaders that would have done a better job, Thrall, Saurfang, Hell, even Baine or Lor'themar would've been better leaders than Vol'jin, and I don't really even like either of those two.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    The best part of this is with a Troll leading the Horde maybe another race like say, a Night Elf can have a chance at leading the Alliance and this bullshit of "Humans and Orcs" being all that matters to the story can finally kick off for good.
    Oh, Jesus God, no. Night Elves are rad and have their place, but a faction leader Night Elf? Well, actually a gnome would be rather hilarious, I'd be down for that. Nelves just feel a bit too stuffy, and Tyrande has always been a bit of a basketcase since I can remember, it'd be more sad than anything.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Again I would encourage you to read what I wrote about the entirety of Vol'jin's story. There are plenty of other leaders that would have done a better job, Thrall, Saurfang, Hell, even Baine or Lor'themar would've been better leaders than Vol'jin, and I don't really even like either of those two.
    Nope, don't care. I have read the novels, I have played the games. I know the story. Vol'jin was setup better in this expansion to take the roll. Baine is too green, Lor'Themar is too fluid (he was going to leave the Horde for the Alliance), Saurfang is too old (which is why they even picked Garrosh the first time), and Thrall has moved on to new things beyond just the Horde.

    Vol'jin had the disservice of being stuck in Grommash Hold for most of the game in which his islands were stuck in a perpetual low level limbo due to game mechanics. He has since grown into his own since right before Cataclysm, was developed further in Cataclysm, gained his own novel, and really grew into something this expansion. Hell, if we go back to WC3, Vol'jin and the trolls are the first race to join with the reformed Horde right after Thrall took over. I am proud to call him my Warchief.

    You can argue and cry all you want. It won't change me from saluting my Warchief every time I once again proudly log onto my Horde characters I have neglected since Garrdouche was put in charge. A new day dawns where the Horde is not just about the orcs anymore, but about the faction as a whole. Now we just need to get rid of King Chin in favor of another character like Tyrande or Magni, and we are set.

  6. #386
    High Overlord Zarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Well a Troll of all things being the "Face" of the Horde, against the Alliance, which is still fortunate enough to have King Varian serve as their poster boy, I can definitely see how it's a reasonable statement.



    Well actually, before Garrosh went completely off the deep end, back when he was just a young, hotheaded, aggressive Orc, it was his victories in Northrend that made him popular. Knowing how to fight certainly helped Thrall take up the mantle of Warchief.

    In response to the thread in general:

    I am absolutely stupified right now, and have been since the cinematics came out, Vol'jin, of all people? Hell, Lor'themar Theron would've been a better leader than Vol'jin.

    Let's look into Vol'jin's history:

    Pre Warcraft-WCIII
    From the very beginning of his Horde membership, he has been absent for all of the major events, instead focusing mainly on the issues that affected him and his people first and foremost.

    After he was fortunate enough to have himself and his people saved from the Sea Witch by Thrall, he pledged loyalty to the Horde, however, while the rest of the Horde sailed for Kalimdor, and later went on to fight the conclusive battles of the Third War upon Mount Hyjal. Vol'jin instead chose to "weather the Sea Witch's wrath" with the rest of his tribe.

    The Orcs, Tauren, a few Trolls, Night Elves and Humans were fighting for the very survival of Azeroth, and Vol'jin is focused on a mere Sea Witch, way to go, Vol'jin, you certainly are doing Azeroth a favor.

    After the Third War, Vol'jin settles his people upon the Echo Isles, during Daelin Proudmoore's ill-fated attempts at destroying the Horde once and for all, the only thing Vol'jin did was help Rexxar and friend evacuate the Darkspear from the Echo Isles, and tell Rexxar to enlist the Ogres to defeat Proudmoore and his marines.
    Pre WoW-WoW:WotLK
    What happened then you ask? Zalazane betrayed the Darkspear and started turning the Darkspear one by one, into Voodoo slaves. The important thing to note here, is that although Zalazane was Vol'jin's childhood friend, he was granted a vision during his time in first home, that showed him fighting Zalazane in a battle to the death. Even with this information Vol'jin is forced into a retreat and many of his tribe are now under Zalazane's spell. Instead of a tactical retreat and reassessment of strategy, Vol'jin plays the defensive for years, allowing for even MORE Darkspear to be dragged off from Sen'jin, to their fate in the Echo Isles, all while sitting comfortably in Grommash Hold.

    Speaking of Grommash Hold, he served as Thrall's Advisor, yet the only noteworthy things he accomplished during this time, were:
    1- The capture of Trol'kalar to use against the Gurubashi and Hakkar (Warned by the Zandalari Tribe) although, in the end, Zengu, the scout he had dispatched, succeeded in retrieving Trol'kalar, only to be killed by Stromgarde troops before he even left Arathi, his work undone.
    2- Drawing up battle plans for the reclamation of the Undercity, a Horde city, in which he already had detailed maps for. During the battle itself, he remained outside with a handful of Grunts and Artillery, directing fire at the besieged Capital.

    Years after losing the Echo Isles, during the War against the Lich King, the Darkspear Tribe weren't quite out in full force, up in Northrend, instead Vol'jin had been devising a plan to retake the Echo Isles, (This was one of Hellscream's valid complaints about the Troll.) After the Lich King's fall, he enacted his plan, he succeeded with the help of Bwonsamdi.

    It took the equivalent of Divine Intervention, to help Vol'jin reclaim his peoples' first home on Kalimdor, and yet, compared to the Horde's victories in Northrend, it's such a small victory, like him or not, Hellscream's comment to the Troll during the pre-Cata, "Elemental Unrest" event, wasn't undeserved.

    WoW:Cata-WoW:MoP
    Speaking of Hellscream, it's time to cover Vol'jin's actions during the "Warchief Hellscream Years"

    Some time during the Early weeks of his reign, Hellscream and Vol'jin have an argument. Hellscream starts off with "Don't talk back to me, Troll..." Interesting considering the fact that most like to say Garrosh was the initial aggressor, anyway, Vol'jin goes to make a death threat against the Warchief, BEFORE, Hellscream truly went off the deep end. No wonder the Trolls felt alienated.

    During the Zandalari threat, a lot of people like to say that, Vol'jin actions were traits of good leadership, unfortunately, I don't think being called to a meeting, simply because of race, declining their offer, and then getting the Horde and Alliance to work together (Although it was really Blood Elves [Under Halduron] and High Elves [Under Vereesa]) to stop a potentially large-scale threat, isn't a shining example of leadership, it's a common sense solution, nearly anyone in Warcraft could and would have done it.

    Interestingly enough, that we're on the topic of people praising Vol'jin where he doesn't deserve praise, right before the Tides of War chapter, because they do the same thing here. Certain posters like to claim that Vol'jin opposed the mana bombing of Theramore. Let's get a few things straight, Vol'jin didn't agree with it, and he did not go to the celebration in Orgrimmar, instead going to Razor Hill, which was where those who weren't pleased with the outcome went. Aside from that, it was Baine Bloodhoof that spoke out against Garrosh's war and plans of conquest, while Vol'jin remained silent. Baine also was the one who sent a courier to warn Jaina of the impending attack, just like he was the one to Organize meetings of those who disagreed with Garrosh's plan to let Theramore gather reinforcements. Tl;dr During Tides of War, the only thing Vol'jin did was express his disapproval in private, and call Baine unwise for openly challenging Hellscream's opinions.

    Fast forward to the Pandaren Campaign and the Assassination attempt

    Vol'jin is ordered to go on a mission after a public clash of opinions at Domination point, as a test of loyalty, it turns out to be an assassination attempt that he barely survives. After the battle with Rak'gor Bloodrazer, he instructs one of his "men" (A random adventurer in service of the Horde) to go seek out other like minded members of the Horde, he also has entrusted the task to Baine Bloodhoof. Nice job making Baine do the heavy lifting for your rebellion, Vol'jin.

    On to "Shadows of the Horde" now.

    Vol'jin, on the brink of death is granted an audience on the other side with his father, Sen'jin, and Bwonsamdi. Bwomsamdi urges Vol'jin to embrace his nature as a Troll and embark on a bloody conquest, Vol'jin is tempted by the prospect, but decides against it, simply because of the corrupting nature of things like the Flesh shaping magic he had just so recently bore witness to.

    I'm going to skip over the majority of this book seeing as it is Bwonsamdi taunting Vol'jin about his place in the world, Vol'jin's introspective look at himself, and Chen Stormstout trying to tap some Shado-Pan ass, and bring up the one note-worthy point

    One of the Major criticism's of Lor'themar as a potential Warchief, was that he was just about ready to leave the Horde, I'm not defending Theron's actions, but Vol'jin has considered leaving the Horde as well, twice, now actually. The first was after one of his early conversations with Garrosh Hellscream. The second was when Khal'ak tempted him with having the Darkspear be propelled to the first tribe of the Zandalari. What drove him away from the idea of joining the Zandalari was the fact that, he realized Troll history had been rather sugar coated, while they were indeed powerful in ages long gone by, the stories that the Trolls had heard nowadays weren't quite the reality of the actual Troll Empire, and thus, their dreams of restoring their peoples' "Former Glory" was doomed to fail from the start.

    On to the Horde rebellion, a popular argument that is made in support of Vol'jin, is that he formed the rebellion, and got the other members of the Horde to work together, he must have what it takes to be a good leader. Here's the thing, it wasn't Vol'jin that turned the Horde against Garrosh, and revealed the truth of his actions, the only person responsible for uniting the Horde leaders to bring Garrosh Hellscream down, was Hellscream himself. He had successfully managed to piss off every faction leader. He killed Baine's father (indirectly responsible of course.), as well as ignored the Tauren's council on multiple occasions, insulted the Tauren personally, and had gone against everything that Baine considered to be "What the Horde was founded on". He was throwing away the lives of the Sin'dorei as if they were meaningless, doing the same things Garithos did to Lor'themar's people. He kept the Kor'kron in the Undercity and assigned Cromush to supervise the Banshee Queen, in addition to forbidding the Forsaken Blight. He was waging a "Total-War" on the Alliance, bankrupting the Horde in the process and going against Gallywix's desire for peace between the two factions. I mean, the rebellion was ready to assemble at a moments notice, the only thing Vol'jin did was contact the others first, and Garrosh practically had to force his hand for him to do even that.


    In Closing
    Overall, upon a closer examination of Vol'jin, it's not terribly hard to see why the guy isn't the best option for Warchief, there are plenty of others in the Horde who would do the job better.

    As far as the argument "Everyone used to like Vol'jin, now they hate him", let me be clear here, I have disliked Vol'jin since WCIII, I have never stopped disliking him, he is a character who takes much more than he gives, and personally I think he's a piss poor leader.

    Oh and a message to the Alliance: I envy you guys, I really do, you still have your Human King, would you mind if I swapped this Red Tabard for a Blue One?
    This so much this.. If anyone in this thread bothered to read your entire post they should understand why vol'jin was such a bad choice..

    But most ppl are just looking at it with a positive eye because its a change.. And you know change is always good.. Or because trolls best race mon LoLoooLoloL..

  7. #387
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    Nope, don't care.
    Congratulations! Ignoring criticism is the best way to say "I'm wrong" without taking a hit to the pride. Continue deluding yourself though, please, I'm sure Vol'jin and his ragtag tribe of Gurubashi exiles will lead the Horde to brighter days than Doomhammer or Thrall could have.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    There are plenty of other leaders that would have done a better job, Thrall, Saurfang, Hell, even Baine or Lor'themar would've been better leaders than Vol'jin, and I don't really even like either of those two.
    Thrall threw the Horde under the bus when he appointed Garrosh, clearly a terrible choice, out of respect for Garrosh's father. Thrall is no longer a good candidate. Baine is inexperienced and is a poor choice when there are far more experienced options available. Who'themar was considering jumping ship rather than face the problem head on, favouring his race before his faction. Vol'jin has gone through a lot for his people, and went on to accept the whole Horde as his people. He turned against members of his race for threatening what he now considers his people. He is wise and cunning, and knows what is best for all of the Horde, and acts on it, even at great cost to himself. Saurfang is the only worthy opposing candidate, but Blizzard have forgotten about him for a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukari View Post
    Equality is a universal concept, you either care about it for everyone, or you don't care about it. It can't be compartmentalized, you can't champion equality for solely one group, that's inimical to the whole idea of equality.
    To make room for the cupcake!

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Congratulations! Ignoring criticism is the best way to say "I'm wrong" without taking a hit to the pride. Continue deluding yourself though, please, I'm sure Vol'jin and his ragtag tribe of Gurubashi exiles will lead the Horde to brighter days than Doomhammer or Thrall could have.
    What criticism outside of opinionated whining have you brought up?

  10. #390
    Honestly, I have a feeling that this ending wasn't intended. First, the seventh sha was predicted...Pride...Then everyone called out the new warchief will be vol'jin...I don't think anyone understands the definition of "Warchief" anymore. So I assume that Vol'jin is supposed to lead the orcs as well, and now the Warchief handles 100% of the horde? I think blizzard has just went for the tinfoil hats. Especially since Dave Kosak explained "unexpected" in a completely, different way.

    Here are four things I think could've been better:

    4) See what really happens to Garrosh. Seeing him chained up isn't enough to convince me that everything is in a good position.

    3) Have Varian dismantle (or try to) dismantle the Horde. He is very different from what he was projected in Wrath. I don't get how he hated Thrall's horde (hated Garrosh more), and actually allows it to live. It's just weird and ridiculous at the same time.

    2) Pick another Warchief. I would rather call Vol'jin the "leader of the Horde", rather than the next Warchief...because that's what everyone is treating the Warchief as of right now. Before, it was the leader of the orcish horde's military (or in other words...Orc leader), and now Vol'jin is the leader of the orcs? Tinfoil hat choices are NOT unexpected Warchiefs.

    1) Pick a different ending. From 2-4, I can conclude that this ending is a catastrophe. I'll give it that it isn't as bad as Cata's ending, but I have a feeling that the charm Blizzard had with Warcraft's lore is in a state of irrelevance ever since the Lich King died (For me anyways). I honestly would've liked Garrosh if he wasn't so xenophobic. Other than that, I think he'd be a perfect Warchief (as in a Tides of Darkness way). Where was Rexxar in this whole entire expac? I thought this expac would mark his return with Chen around.


    Bare in mind that these are my opinions, I just think that this ending is a catastrophe. I really, really loathe the idea of a troll warchief.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Congratulations! Ignoring criticism is the best way to say "I'm wrong" without taking a hit to the pride. Continue deluding yourself though, please, I'm sure Vol'jin and his ragtag tribe of Gurubashi exiles will lead the Horde to brighter days than Doomhammer or Thrall could have.
    You act like this is real life, and we just elected the president and now have to deal with the consequences.

    A little bit of reality for you. This is a game. A game with a story written by writers. For all you know, Vol'jin and his leadership will bring the Horde into a new Golden Age of prosperity that puts everything Thrall did in the past to shame, all because Chris the Writer decided it was so.

    Vol'jin has been presented as a competent leader. The best leader? Nope, but that would make him just as boring as King Chin. Blizzard is taking this on the tail of a horrible backlash over the Garrosh fiasco, in which 10% of the Horde liked the guy and the rest mocked him endlessly. They are not going to make Vol'jin just sit on his ass and whistle fart noises, and if that was the intention, they would have done it with Thrall or Saurfang too, because the whole point was for the person they chose to sit there and whistle fart noises.

    So really, you keep deluding yourself that your amazing "analysis" has any merit to a fictional universe of elves and space goats.

  12. #392
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Nice history revision you've got going on there, considering that Vol'jin let the Horde collapse and didn't even support Baine, during his conversation with Garrosh regarding the attack upon Theramore, all out of concern for "his people"
    VOljin didn't let the Horde collapse at all? You're the one making up your own bullshit with respect to the story as its written. VOLJIN held the horde together against garrosh but orc fanbois like you don't see to get the Horde isn't just your stupid fucking Orcs any more. timing is important too. Voljin was biding his time.

    And also, I understand an Elf can do no wrong in your eyes, but Lor'themar was going to leave the Horde out of "his peoples'" interests, Loyal to the Horde over his people indeed!
    He was turning his back on garrosh to keep his people from being slaughtered and left out to rot by an asshat orc who thinks they are inferior. I know you orc fantards have serious hardons for your green garbage people so much so you fail to see them as the disgusting filth they are written as, you even pardon them and say they are misunderstood or were duped lmao. But really, enough. Lor'themar had a limit and Garrosh pushed him to it, Jaina's actions extended it.

    Sorry, Night Elves won't be leading anything while Tyrande's in charge, you're going to have to find a competent Night Elf before High Queen/King, will become a possibility. Also Orcs vs. Humans is the reason this game blew up so big, it's great to see people kicking that idea, it really is.... /sarcasm.
    funny an orc fanboi wants to talk about competency. Let's see, Thrall turns over the horde to the biggest fucktard they've had since the second war, and then said fucktard loses the allegiance of all component races. Tyrande is magnificently more competent than your orc homies, so shut up with your baseless bashing.
    orcs vs. humans isn't why I started playing. I thought Orcs were typical barbarian retards and humans your typical crusading knights. Dumb as rocks and boring as shit. A lot of other people agree, since despite humans being the most played race they are still not a majority of the Alliance and Orcs are hardly a majority in the Horde. So Orcs vs Humans, maybe YOU like it, but you don't speak for everyone. Certainly not me or all the other people playing non-orcs and non-humans. And it's not simply an "idea" any more. Voljin is the WARCHIEF of your Horde. If you don't recgonise it, that doesn't change. Bow to your Troll master you orc turd. Lol
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
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  13. #393
    I can't really blame any of the characters for being the way they are, Vol'jin isn't really that compelling a dude, but I can't really say any of the characters are. I think the main problem is bland writing and poor execution, alright ideas, but the way they go about implementing it was hamfisted as hell.

  14. #394
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheShinyOne View Post
    Thrall threw the Horde under the bus when he appointed Garrosh, clearly a terrible choice, out of respect for Garrosh's father.
    Operating under that logic, wouldn't that make Vol'jin a bad decision?
    Also when was Garrosh showing signs of absolute racism and the desire to start a full scale global conflict and use powers darker than demon blood to cement his victory? Because I'm pretty sure when Thrall left for Nagrand, he was just a hotheaded Orc with great pride, not just for the Orcs but the Horde as a whole, not to mention Thrall wasn't expecting Deathwing to Shatter Azeroth, nor was he expecting Cairne to challenge Garrosh and NOT advise him.

    Baine is inexperienced, sure, but, Baine also had ties to Anduin which would cement peace, not to mention he not only was the one speaking out against Garrosh the most, he also warned Jaina about the Horde's impending attack upon Theramore.

    Lor'themar's only bad trait can be applied to Vol'jin twofold, he was going to jump ship, Vol'jin wanted to leave once Hellscream was put in charge, Thrall talked him out of it, he wanted to join the Zandalari in the novel, but realize the Zandalari were destined to fail, REAL LOYALTY right there! Either way, neither one left, I don't think it's entirely fair to count out Lor'thewho and not Vol'jin.

    Also, the Zandalari might be trolls, but there's no racial kinship there, the Amani, Gurubashi, Farrakki, and Drakkari can barely tolerate one another, the Zandalari think themselves superior, he wasn't forced into a difficult decision.

    As far as knowing what is best for all the Horde and acting on it, even at great cost to himeslf? I do recall him staying silent while Baine and Sylvanas (of all people) were the only two voices of reason during the discussion about "Conquering Kalimdor".

    Blizzard didn't forget about Saurfang, he's in SoO, they just chose an uninteresting character.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  15. #395
    I personally love the choice. He has shown his loyalty to the horde, and I have always loved the character. Yes he's not an orc, but I believe he will have his people follow him because Thrall, who of course is an orc, said he is worthy of being warchief. We shall see how it ends up though, but for now I'm liking it a lot.

  16. #396
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    A little bit of reality for you. This is a game. A game with a story written by writers.
    .......
    So really, you keep deluding yourself that your amazing "analysis" has any merit to a fictional universe of elves and space goats.
    No shit, I have to ask, do you have a checklist of "How to discredit an argument" because you sure are hitting every point you can.

    The rest of your post isn't worth responding to based off from that alone. Have a nice day and enjoy wasting other people's time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    The rest of your post isn't worth responding to based off from that alone. Have a nice day and enjoy wasting other people's time.
    I don't need to waste anyone's time, you are doing a great enough job wasting everyone's time for us. But sure, go have a great day crying about how the big bad troll is now ruling you, I will go on actually enjoying the game.

  18. #398
    Holy crap, hahaha... Orcs Vs. Humans hasn't been around since WC1 when Games Workshop backed out on the work Blizzard did for 'em, but Blizzard released anyway. WC2 was Alliance Vs. Horde, even back then it's always been 'all these fantasy dudes vs. those fantasy dudes', so not exactly orcs vs. humans. WC3 was a clusterfuck Vs. a greater evil, not orcs Vs. humans again. Frozen Throne was simply a means to bridge into WoW, WoW vanilla was the aftermath of WC3/Frozen Throne, so more of a cold war deal. BC was vs. the greater threat, WotLK was against the greater threat and, Cata was just weird given Thrall went soft in the head for some reason. Where Medivh or whatever his name was at that point is beyond me.

    It's got some interesting stuff, but beyond printing money, don't read too much into the Orcs Vs. Humans thing, it hasn't really been about that for a long ass time, honestly I'd love to see some face time with other dudes beyond orcs/trolls/humans/nelves, I'm getting tired of doing shit for those dudes, hahaha...

  19. #399
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    VOljin didn't let the Horde collapse at all? You're the one making up your own bullshit with respect to the story as its written. VOLJIN held the horde together against garrosh but orc fanbois like you don't see to get the Horde isn't just your stupid fucking Orcs any more. timing is important too. Voljin was biding his time.
    Vol'jin was the figurehead of a rebellion waiting to assemble at a moments notice. Baine was the voice of reason, Baine was the one Challenging Garrosh's decisions, Baine was the one actually championing the cause of the Horde publicly, not Vol'jin. Also using the word fanboi's usually discredits your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    He was turning his back on garrosh to keep his people from being slaughtered and left out to rot by an asshat orc who thinks they are inferior. I know you orc fantards have serious hardons for your green garbage people so much so you fail to see them as the disgusting filth they are written as, you even pardon them and say they are misunderstood or were duped lmao. But really, enough. Lor'themar had a limit and Garrosh pushed him to it, Jaina's actions extended it.
    There is so much ad-hom here based off from a fictional race that I happen to like, I honestly don't know where to begin...

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    funny an orc fanboi wants to talk about competency. Let's see, Thrall turns over the horde to the biggest fucktard they've had since the second war, and then said fucktard loses the allegiance of all component races. Tyrande is magnificently more competent than your orc homies, so shut up with your baseless bashing.
    Night Elf Fanboy accusing others of incompetence? Let's see, Inviting the Burning Legion to Azeroth? Check. Trying to use the same source of energy that attracted the Legion just after a near apocolyptic situation? Check. Starting unchecked wars of aggression only to have their Demigod killed in the process? Check. Freeing a man who has betrayed your people, AND the people he worked for after betraying you, so he could betray you and betray the people he betrayed you for again? Check. Argue against a temporary Alliance to prevent the Burning Legion's near-inevitable ascent to Hyjal, just like you personally experienced in times past? Check.

    Night Elves, confirmed for biggest fuck ups in history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    orcs vs. humans isn't why I started playing. I thought Orcs were typical barbarian retards and humans your typical crusading knights. Dumb as rocks and boring as shit. A lot of other people agree, since despite humans being the most played race they are still not a majority of the Alliance and Orcs are hardly a majority in the Horde. So Orcs vs Humans, maybe YOU like it, but you don't speak for everyone. Certainly not me or all the other people playing non-orcs and non-humans. And it's not simply an "idea" any more. Voljin is the WARCHIEF of your Horde. If you don't recgonise it, that doesn't change. Bow to your Troll master you orc turd. Lol
    It might not be why you started playing, it is why most Old-school Warcraft fans started playing though.

    Also there is nothing that is ground breakingly creative about Night Elves either.

    Vol'jin might be Warchief of the Horde, for how long though? Things are always subject to change, Hellscream sure did (DAMN LOOK AT THAT 180!)
    Might I ask you to take a knee, your High King demands some respect from you tree lovers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImportantLoreInformation View Post
    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimPaladin View Post
    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  20. #400
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Looking back at the history it makes sense that it was Vol'jin, him and Thrall go way back and let's be honest it was Thrall who decided. See, the Horde leaders still saw Thrall as the real Warchief and they look to him and hes like "No thanks mate you can do it Vol'jin mate, I'l just sit back here and sip on some wine with my woman, gimme a shout if you need a hand"

    Vol'jin put in da time and now he reaping da rewards mon.
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