I hated Garrosh, but now we get a even bigger douche as Warchief...
I miss Garrosh already
I hated Garrosh, but now we get a even bigger douche as Warchief...
I miss Garrosh already
This outcome just snuffed that hope.
They really needa stop listening to us fans. Vol'Jin's Warchief because when Metzen announced Thrall would be Warchief early last year, everyone was bitching and Vol'Jin, the only other Horde leader at the time with an ounce of development, was naturally becoming a fan favourite. But the guy is not suited for Warchief. He's more inactive that pre-Cata Thrall, and is at his core a coward (threaten Garrosh early, when you realize your suspicions are true you are to afraid to speak up to him). Blizzard just choose him because they listened to the community, who most of the time can't grasp the concept of a story.
Awful choice. If my sub wasnt already expiring (grand theft auto, u all understand) I'd cancel over it. It's a disgrace to the horde I joined long ago. Some of us went horde because we want the savage nature of the horde. To conquer all, at any cost. That is the original horde and the one I joined.
That being said, its just a game. If blizz wanted to put a gnome in charge of both factions, they could. Besides, this may open the door for the long awaited 3rd faction. Maybe the orcs, nd undead refuse to follow this new war chief and an alliance race or two leaves and creates a third faction. Who knows, maybe there is method to this madness.
I mean, I use to like Jaina, I even brought the novel tides of war because I still liked her back then. but seeing her in 5.4 ending, it just screams out, thats not Jaina, not anymore, she died in theramore.
So, blizzard not only killed off one of the things the horde meant something to me, but also the one alliance leader I admired. nice.
I'm Horde and I think it's one of the better options. I don't think he is the best Warchief, but he beats Sylvanas (hate her and her people, psycho bitch shouldn't even be in the Horde), Lor'Themar (nobody before 5.2 and a Belf who wanted to join the Alliance in that same 5.2), Gallywix (aka Gallywho?) and Thrall (been there, done that).
Only Baine and the Tauren people would be a better idea but Baine lacks the experience.
For those who think Saurfang could have been an option; considering his age he would be nothing but a seatwarmer for the Warchief after him.
Trolls are long standing members of the Horde and the first to join on the way from the Old Horde (WC1 & WC2) to the New Horde under Thrall. I know some want back to the bloodthirsty ways and days of Blackhand and Doomhammer, days Garrosh brought back to some extent, but that's a thing of the past and Garrosh was nothing but an Orcish spasm. The Horde, as in the player faction, will never go back to those ways (those that want that could dust off a copy of the warhammer mmo) and Vol'Jin as Warchief clearly marks that departure.
First, I never said we have to butcher all the orcs, in fact is people like you that is making an utter, damn tragedy about something that is not remotely similar with "shame on all orcs", it's just a change of leadership, and the simple fact that the leader is not an orc is becoming a drama of embarassing levels.
I'm just saying that a drastic change of command after some really drastic and terrible events (last but not least the recover and full usage of an Old God's heart) triggered by the son of Grom and many orcs that decided to follow him blindly is more than needed. This doesn't mean that orcs will be forced to live in shitty parts of Orgrimmar like the previous Warchief did for no reasons but bias and racism, they will just be EQUAL, like any other race. And it's fresh air after the shitty treatment that the non-orc races of the Horde received for too much time, crushed by the judgement of a bunch of morons beliving in "Orc supremacy".
Second, you made a whole of awful comparisons with races that were just rulers of themselves, and, you know, had little choices but to forgive themselves and going forward. The Horde, not the one in Draenor from which Garrosh had a lot of shitty inspirations, but the one in Azeroth, is more than orcs, and this was true by the day they began to build Orgrimmar, becoming more and more a relevant aspect over time. You know, the orcs weren't just leading themselves, and the horrible decisions that this orcish government did has been forcibly imposed not only to all the orcs, but to any other race allied with them aswell.
Plus, the orcs that followed Garrosh weren't corrupted or insane, they simply trusted the wrong person and made the worst decisions all by themselves. Garrosh did all that he did all by himself. The Dragonmaw, the Warsong, the Blackrock, the Mag'har, so many of them followed Garrosh in his downfall. And they did so just for pride. Leaving the reins of the Horde to someone else for a while and proving that the good orcs can fiercely fight for the Horde even in a little more "humbled" position would be the truest and greatest prove that they surely understood their lesson.
Like that huge list of names put there because they are orcs more than any kind of well-known skills in leadership?Vol'jin isn't even that great of a leader, there were plenty of others in the Horde with a far better track record.
Well, running around the circle is pointless, as the poster above me said, let's wait and see how this will work instead of bitching and acting like the one that bandage his head before that head is effectively broken.
Baine, he lacked experience, sure, but I don't think he'd necessarily make a terrible leader, he wouldn't be my top pick, but I'd have him over Vol'jin.
Lor'themar was a nobody, but I do feel, regardless of how much I loathe the idea, that he would be better for Warchief than Vol'jin, after all, he only tried to leave the Horde once...
Thrall, since when is "been there done that" a good argument? Last time I checked the Horde did quite well under Thrall.
I have to ask the people who don't like the choice... Who on earth did you think it would be, they built Vol'jin up for becoming the Warchief.. Did you just expect them to pick say Saurfang or others who have had barely any face time this expansion.. In the end it was the choice that made the most sense.
As for Thrall marking the transition from Old to New Horde, I disagree. Thrall reinvented the Old Horde but it was still Orcs and their assorted friends. He redid the thing and while we call it the New Horde it was more like Old Horde 2.0 than a truly New Horde.
Do you understand what this is?
This is the generic "green barbarians who invade shit" orc crap. Even with the improvements made to give them some character and diversity, this "Orc" has stopped being interesting and fresh ten years ago. Warcraft orcs are nothing like their Warhammer 40K equivalent(which is far more characteristic while keeping the fantasy orc identity intact-ish), there is simply nothing charming about them, there never was.
As I've said before, I would take pothead blue giants everyday instead of this same old shit. Fun, fresh idea behind them are at least enough for Vol'jin to be Horde's poster boy.
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It's true that the Darkspear were the first to join Thrall's Horde, but what did they actually contribute? Vol'jin and a good part of his tribe stayed on their Isles during the Third War, apparently trying to deal with the Sea Witch is much more important than a battle that would decide the fate of Azeroth. That wasn't the only time the Darkspear were too busy focusing on small problems to actively help the Horde in the grand scheme of things (Northrend anyone? Their lack of support their was the main reason Garrosh held any contempt for the Trolls...)
In regards to the Doomhammer Blackhand argument, it's commonly accepted that he was a "big bad guy", but think about it for a moment...Doomhammer realized the true extent of what had happened on Draenor, he realized the planet is dying, that Blackhand is a pupper leader, that the Shadow Council severed ties with the elements in favor of Dark Magics, his people are hopped up on Demon Blood AND they're in the middle of a war. His intentions were always noble, he only wanted what was best for the Orcs. After taking control of the Horde from both Blackhand and the Shadow Council, he finishes the First War and hears of Human survivors fleeing North. Obviously they were going to get help, Doomhammer couldn't really take his people to a dying world and hope that the Alliance wouldn't come through the portal could he? He did what any one in that position would do, strengthened the Horde and prepared them for another War, Destroy the Enemy before they come to Destroy you, in a sense... His overall goal was to reestablish his peoples' Old ways. Blackhand however, (And Garrosh) conquered for the sake of it, Blackhand, because Gul'dan told him to, Garrosh, to build a legacy to rival that of his father's, Grom broke the chains from the Demons, Garrosh had hoped to break the "Chains" of the Alliance.
What people don't understand about this is, is that since WC3, the orcs have lead the horde, by example.
Since WC3, and how blizzard reinvented the orcs in the story, gave them back honor, made them into something more then a generic barbarian race, it set an example that despite the alliance claiming them to be monsters, it showned in the game they were not this.
When I first began playing wow years ago, and saw examples in lore, like going to the barrens and seeing orcs living on farms with there children and families there, or orcs who faught to defend there homes instead of just trying to conquer, I understood then what blizzard had done, they made orcs into a people, not just a concept. and because of this, they lead the example to all others, a race that was condemned years ago, overcame there dark past, found there freedom, and now fight to defend there home and families.
This is the example of what orcs are, the example of what makes the horde what it is. This is why the subvertion that happened in cata and mists because of Garrosh really tarnessed the orcs as a race in wows story.. but I held out hope, that we'd see Garrosh's example die out, and the orcs who showed the best of there kind would lead the horde by example again.
To take that way from the story, after the orcs long history, and paint another race as the defacto race of the horde.. you might as well kill off all the orcs in warcraft for that reason, because if they can't honor the example orcs had to the rest of the horde, orcs who sort to overcome there dark past and fight to defend there home and famlily, as the example of the horde, then whats the point any of it.
Trolls in the horde as such a miniscule part of the hordes backstory, just because vol'jin lead a rebellion for a brief time, doesn't give the right to have the story subverted into this revamp.
Hell, the trolls of the darkspear were once no better then the rest of the troll nations, savage and dark. You know what changed them to stop following that example? Thrall and his orcs, who saved them. The orcs were the example to the darkspears. The orcs since then have been the example to the rest of the horde, upholding honor and brotherhood, which is what the horde needs to be about.
What they did to the orcs since garrosh came into power is the worst backpedaling in the story there could be, but having vol'jjin take power now, after everything the orcs have been though, it undermines any chance of the orcs growing as a race again.
Last edited by Trassk; 2013-09-14 at 03:40 PM.
Are you guys forgetting the alliance had no king for 2 expansions and vanilla?
i picked im alliance and i like it.
i like him . so many possibilities. gl with your new wc guys . maybe now alliance will get a good story!
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"Creative" parts of the Warcraft story is restricted to elements such as the conflict between Magic and Technology, interactions between severely different sentient species and so on. Generic fantasy part, Orcs, Trolls, Humans and Elves, that was the majority of the playerbase felt familiar with, and I never said any of that was strong or creative story making.
However, it does not take a geek to figure out between the giant gap between Trolls and Orcs of Azeroth. As I 've said before, the whole concept of a pothead blue savage(I've not known anyone to not recognize the idea at least fresh and entertaining) being the face of an organization that is essential to both gameplay and lore, is way better than the generic "orc" that haunted fantasy literature since Tolkien, I mean come on.
Also, with there's only so many "Fresh" avenues to go down with your "entertaining" Blue Pot Head Savages.