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  1. #101
    [QUOTE=Crashdummy;22377046]I like Vol'jin too, but not as Warchief. Why? Because he is just a lesser Thrall. Less powerful, less heroic, less epic, less clever, less everything.-snip-/QUOTE]

    How powerful, heroic, epic, clever, everything was Thrall when we first met him in WC3? I'd argue at a SMALLER level than Vol'Jin has demonstrated since.

    It's a time for new heroes - and new heroes can only happen through time. Thrall wouldn't be revered today if it wasn't for the outcomes of WC3 and everything that has transpired since.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  2. #102
    I'll have to disagree with you on that the horde warchief has to be an orc, but that being said I am a bit disappointed that it was Vol'jin.

    He's not a bad choice, just it was a bit too obvious and really kind of lack luster. Dude has heart and he's been around, but there's not much to him. Honestly he feels like a rogue version of a sub-par Thrall.

    I would have voted Saurfang just because....well everyone loves Saurfang. Or even Lor'themar would have worked as huge shift in the Horde (let's face it the dude has some major qualifications in his favor).

    I'll ask you a quick question though, would you have been a bit more satisfied if they had at least selected someone as the orc racial leader? "Saurfang, I trust you to lead the orcs, but you Vol'jin shall command the horde" or something along those lines.

  3. #103
    Vol'jin loves the Horde and respects it's honor. With all this "Grr Orc is master race" nonsense, Thrall appointed a Troll to lead, one with honor, commitment, loyalty, and one who is close friends and studied under Thrall. Thrall knew what he was doing and made the right choice. This isnt Orcs vs Humans. This is Horde vs Alliance.

  4. #104
    Bloodsail Admiral Taros's Avatar
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    I'm glad Vol'jin is the new warchief. He was the one I wanted all along. The orcs will still be the main focus of the Horde. What's the big deal?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I like Vol'jin too, but not as Warchief. Why? Because he is just a lesser Thrall. Less powerful, less heroic, less epic, less clever, less everything.-snip-
    How powerful, heroic, epic, clever, everything was Thrall when we first met him in WC3? I'd argue at a SMALLER level than Vol'Jin has demonstrated since.

    It's a time for new heroes - and new heroes can only happen through time. Thrall wouldn't be revered today if it wasn't for the outcomes of WC3 and everything that has transpired since.

    When Doomhammer made him Warchief, he was already clever and VERY powerful (so powerful he beated Doomhammer without using his shaman powers).

    He was also a well known member of the frostwolves, the most honorable clan of the Orcs.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    I like Vol'jin too, but not as Warchief. Why? Because he is just a lesser Thrall. Less powerful, less heroic, less epic, less clever, less everything.

    We just got a lesser Thrall version just because Blizzard decided to cater to whiners qqing about Thrall's role in a bad expansion we are ALL trying to forget.

    Why is he unsuited to be Warchief? Because he has done NOTHING to deserve it. Not a single thing.

    Hell, untill MoP, his only accomplishment was fleing from a Naga with some murlocs.
    I wouldn't say he's a lesser Thrall, he's quite a different character. He has a lot of Thrall's honour code, but he is less friendly with the Alliance and is more pragmatic and less afraid to get his hands dirty with stuff Thrall would probably consider dishonourable (e.g poison darts.).

    That said, his vision for the Horde will likely be very similar to Thrall's vision for the Horde. A Warchief like Lor'themar could really have taken this golden opportunity to take the Horde in a new direction, open up new avenues for the story. Vol'jin though...I have no doubt he'll do a good job, but it'll be more of what we already got.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    I wouldn't say he's a lesser Thrall, he's quite a different character. He has a lot of Thrall's honour code, but he is less friendly with the Alliance and is more pragmatic and less afraid to get his hands dirty with stuff Thrall would probably consider dishonourable (e.g poison darts.).

    That said, his vision for the Horde will likely be very similar to Thrall's vision for the Horde. A Warchief like Lor'themar could really have taken this golden opportunity to take the Horde in a new direction, open up new avenues for the story. Vol'jin though...I have no doubt he'll do a good job, but it'll be more of what we already got.
    He is not less fiendly with the alliance. He has associated himself with the Alliance a lot more than Thrall did.
    He is not less afraid to get his hands dirty, thats something people that DON'T KNOW Thrall's lore think. Thrall's have gotten his hands dirty A LOT MORE than Vol'jin.
    Hell, it wasnt Vol'jin fighting against the kor'kron...
    He isnt more pragmatic either, Thrall has always done whats neccesary to get things done, as long as it wasnt an dishonorable thing to do.

    He is indeed a lesser Thrall in every single way.
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  8. #108
    I personally would have preferred an orc warchief. If blizzard had just made Thrall re-take his mantle, I would have been more satisfied. I suspect that the outcry from the community when it was announced that Thrall would be back as warchief, made them re-evaluate this decision.

    I honestly like Vol'jin, but he has always struck me as a side-kick more than a leader. He was the Robin to Thrall's Batman, and it will take me some time to get accustomed to seeing him as a leader.

    I am an Alliance player - and yet I am deeply invested in the lore as a whole, and this announcement of the new Warchief did not have the usual shocking twist or satisfaction, or WOW moment that I was expecting. It all just feels rather lackluster after a full expansion worth of build up.

    "A knight in shining armor is a man who has never had his metal truly tested."

  9. #109
    Stood in the Fire Balager's Avatar
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    Damn Trassk, you are waaaaay predictable with your orc supremacist rants. I think Sylvanas, Lor'Themar and Vol'Jin were pretty fine without being warchiefs. Now that Vol'Jin leads the Horde I doubt he will begin with comitting genocide against the orcs.
    Chill out. Or leave the game and the forumsto who care about more than just the orcs.

  10. #110
    I think King Varian in the cinematic sum up cata+mop lore, when he look at thrall after vol'jin claim to speach for the Horde; in that moment i was expecting something like "cmon thrall are you shitting me again with another lame warchief? Cmon dude take back your seat and lets go back to ol'good days"
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  11. #111
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Because he's not done anything worthy of the title. Even in the last few patches, we don't see him do anything making him worthy of it.
    He got stabbed and then had a novel written about him, well his people are threatened by the kor'kohn. Thrall comes in and saves them. Vol'jin returns and starts the rebellion, but he doesn't even fight against the kor'kohn at sen'jin, Thrall and Chen do.. CHEN, a neutral character does more fighting them he does.
    And lets not forget how he didn't do jack to save echo isles for years, leaving his people as mind slaves, also how he sat outside undercity well Thrall and Sylvanas battled varimathras.

    Vol'jin might have good intentions, but he's done nothing making him worthy of this title.
    Thrall got his Warchief mantle from Doomhammer despite being once a slave and an outcast by being a part of the Frostwolf clan, a clan that was shunned by the rest of the Horde. He was never worthy by the title either, but see how he turned out.

    I find it quite ridiculous that you judge him by his feats when the most important aspect is his values and ideals for how the Horde should be. As far as I'm concerned, he has the Horde's best interest in mind and he and Thrall think a lot alike. I honestly don't see why this is a problem.

    Heck, I wanted Lor'themar to be Warchief myself, but if this is the direction the Horde is going to take, then even I don't have that many issues with it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    When Doomhammer made him Warchief, he was already clever and VERY powerful (so powerful he beated Doomhammer without using his shaman powers).

    He was also a well known member of the frostwolves, the most honorable clan of the Orcs.
    The Frostwolves were outcasts and shunned by the others before Thrall became Warchief. He had literally no worthy credentials other than managing to survive in a gladiatorial arena while being brought up by Humans and that is hardly considered good. He was as far from being close to have enough feats to be worthy the mantle, but he got it anyway because Doomhammer saw something in Thrall, the same way Thrall is seeing something in Vol'jin.

  12. #112
    I just think it's pretty weak that a day after the patch hits the game has already been beaten by some. They should have had wings opening on week by week basis to give to give people something to look forward to for a few weeks at least

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    Thrall got his Warchief mantle from Doomhammer despite being once a slave and an outcast by being a part of the Frostwolf clan, a clan that was shunned by the rest of the Horde. He was never worthy by the title either, but see how he turned out.

    I find it quite ridiculous that you judge him by his feats when the most important aspect is his values and ideals for how the Horde should be. As far as I'm concerned, he has the Horde's best interest in mind and he and Thrall think a lot alike. I honestly don't see why this is a problem.

    Heck, I wanted Lor'themar to be Warchief myself, but if this is the direction the Horde is going to take, then even I don't have that many issues with it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The Frostwolves were outcasts and shunned by the others before Thrall became Warchief. He had literally no worthy credentials other than managing to survive in a gladiatorial arena while being brought up by Humans and that is hardly considered good. He was as far from being close to have enough feats to be worthy the mantle, but he got it anyway because Doomhammer saw something in Thrall, the same way Thrall is seeing something in Vol'jin.
    thrall has alot of credential:
    1) first shaman to be raised after the orcs severed the ties with the spirits back when they drink the demon blood, first of the new generation
    2) son of the only clan head that have not followed Gul'dan
    3) extremely skilled in hand to hand combat to the point he defeated doomhammer without using any shamanistic power

    also he didn't become warchief immediately but served under doomhammer for long time proving it's worthiness by developing tactics in the long liberation campain against the human and the orc detention facilities and by using it's shamanistic power to awake the orcs from their lethargic state.

    Vol'jin is a poor choice, he is a good general but he has proved nothing till the last 2 patch and the book, all the horde leaders except sylvanas have show nothing maybe if they made vol'jin be the central character in a long campain against the raising new zandalari empire, maybe if he would have brought to the horde other troll tribes showing that it's own peoples think of him as a prominent figure on par with rastakan then maybe he was worth the mantle.

    ps also blizzard might rethink how they dubbed the trolls, in english it's bearable with all the "mon" but in italian they dubbed them in naples dialect, every time i hear a troll it feel like someone selling a pizza or a fake rolex.
    How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

  14. #114
    Two things I disagree about here. First, at the though of Jaina no longer being Jaina - I won't go so far as to say she's ruined yet. She is, currently, not herself - whether this is a permanent change or not is yet to be determined. The next step in Jaina's arc is crucial - if the next part of her story is reconciliation, where she can begin to master what she's dealt with, then I say good job Blizz. The risk they run is breaking the character. Keeping a character in their status quo leads to stagnation - you have to shake things up to keep it interesting - but I can attest to the fact that it is very difficult to realistically bring a character back from a character-breaking point of no-return, which is where Jains is dangerously headed.

    My other point would be the Orcs - this might be the best development the Orcs have had in quite some time. Orcs have been cast out of their position of dominance and been disgraced all across Azeroth. Those Orcs who remain will struggle to find a place within the world, but this situation is a breeding ground for compelling storytelling for the race as a whole and I'm very interested to see what becomes of the Orcish people post-5.4
    Last edited by Monteverdi; 2013-09-12 at 10:09 PM.

  15. #115
    Scarab Lord Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    -snip-
    Still doesn't change the fact that he was a former slave and heir to a clan that was recognized as traitors by a huge majority of the Horde. That alone makes him have next to no credentials for a Warchief position at a time when he was basically a nobody for most other than to a certain amount of people who actually happened to be important leaders within the Horde, like Doomhammer and Grommash Hellscream.

    If someone else than Doomhammer had been in charge he would have just looked at Thrall and said "Well, aren't you useless". Do you honestly think it's a coincidence why Garrosh acted the way he did in SoO against Thrall? It's the typical mentality that the old Horde had and frankly, the way people argue against Vol'jin is the very reason why he is good enough candidate as of now. He may not have the best credentials in the world, but he has the heart on the right side when it comes to the Horde, and that's what's important.

  16. #116
    Well I've never expected much from Lore in Warcraft because, let's face it, they aren't writers by trade.

    I was just disappointed at how you don't feel like Garrosh won't be getting the punish he deserves, especially at the hands of carebears.
    I also don't like how Alliance is willing to "call it even" at perhaps it's most opportune time.

    So now I just feel like the Horde VS Alliance mentality is gone.

    And while that may be important for the story to come, I feel underwhelmed at this "cease fire."
    "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills." - Mugatu

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by DrSteveBrule View Post
    Well I've never expected much from Lore in Warcraft because, let's face it, they aren't writers by trade.

    I was just disappointed at how you don't feel like Garrosh won't be getting the punish he deserves, especially at the hands of carebears.
    I also don't like how Alliance is willing to "call it even" at perhaps it's most opportune time.

    So now I just feel like the Horde VS Alliance mentality is gone.

    And while that may be important for the story to come, I feel underwhelmed at this "cease fire."
    Varian makes some good points about why not to attack them now when you talk to him after the fight.
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Death Knight View Post
    The Frostwolves were outcasts and shunned by the others before Thrall became Warchief. He had literally no worthy credentials other than managing to survive in a gladiatorial arena while being brought up by Humans and that is hardly considered good. He was as far from being close to have enough feats to be worthy the mantle, but he got it anyway because Doomhammer saw something in Thrall, the same way Thrall is seeing something in Vol'jin.
    The Frostwolves were held in high regard by Doomhammer (he was also in Frostwolf territory when this happened). He had worthy credentials and he had more feats than Vol'jin. There wasnt also anyone better available (which isnt the case here).
    Doomhammer didnt just picked a guy randomly and gave him the mantle because he "saw something".
    Thrall always was, is, and will be my true Warchief. Garrosh and Vol'jin werent/arent.

  19. #119
    As to the imprisonment of Garrosh. I kind of agree that likely he'll break free during a Burning Legion invasion if he's not executed beforehand. Then likely join them, then ultimately betray either Kil'jaeden or Sargeras by destroying whatever protects either before getting obliterated himself.
    I'm an altoholic since 2005.

  20. #120
    Stood in the Fire tinyninja's Avatar
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    The thing that kills Trassk about this most of all, is that Thrall is willing to accept Vol'jin as his leader and recognizes his merits.

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